Punishment for abortion

[pensmama87]

The penalty should be the same as it was prior to Roe v Wade. No woman ever went to jail for having an abortion. Abortionists were sanctioned, not women.

All this talk of punishment for abortion simply makes the pro-life cause more difficult.

 

[Ignatius]

if a woman contracts a doctor to perform an abortion, . . . .

In Catholic Theology, the purpose is not punishment, but to spare them from committing those sins in the first place.

 

[BellsMom]

All this talk of punishment for abortion simply makes the pro-life cause more difficult.

I personally see it the opposite way. If you (meaning those opposed to abortion) truly believe that abortion is murder then the mother is a murderer. We punish murderers.

 

[marymary1975]

Personally I don’t agree with the idea that women should be penalized with jail time for abortion. First of all it is extremely difficult to prosecute. I know that for a fact because I come from a country where there is jail sentences for women that have abortions and is very very hard to prosecute. This difficulty most of the time only fuels pro choice mentality so it is not good. On the other hand, many women are either pressures into it, do it out of desperation, have been brainwashed or are experiencing economical problems and don’t know what to do. Many times throwing these women into jail only createsore social problems and again it only fuels the pro choice mentality.

In my opinion a much effective solution is to criminalize the doctors to perform abortions! That may work way better. If you tie that with social programs designed to help the women that seek abortions and you give them proper help and counseling, that could really help to keep abortions illegal and actually reduced the number of abortions.

 

[JimG]

Shall we also punish the boyfriend who told her to choose between him and the baby, and the mother who drove her to the clinic and dropped her off with the instructions not to come home until it’s done? Or the counselor who urged upon her this course of action? Or her friends who told her that this was her only choice? Lots of accessories before and after the fact. Throwing everyone in jail will serve no purpose whatsoever, except to give the pro-choice lobby more reason to push for legal abortion.

 

[thistle]

I personally see it the opposite way. If you (meaning those opposed to abortion) truly believe that abortion is murder then the mother is a murderer. We punish murderers.

So you want to send some 12 year old who had an abortion to jail for life???

 

[Tomdstone]

If you (meaning those opposed to abortion) truly believe that abortion is murder then the mother is a murderer. We punish murderers.

If a woman were to murder her 1 year old child, the penalty would be quite severe, possibly at least 20 years in prison. Should her penalty be any different for abortion, keeping in mind that human life begins at conception?

 

[Tantum_ergo]

If a woman were to murder her 1 year old child, the penalty would be quite severe, possibly at least 20 years in prison. Should her penalty be any different for abortion, keeping in mind that human life begins at conception?

Ah. But did this mother who murdered her 1 year old child do so in the same type of circumstances that the mother contemplating abortion did?

For example, did she take her 1 year old to a clinic and have the doctor or nurse inject the child with saline, or have the child’s skull crushed and limbs pulled apart?

Was her ‘partner’ aware of her intent to kill the 1 year old and did he actively sanction it? Did he ‘hand her’ the tools? Did he demand that she kill the 1 year old this minute or else he’d beat her, leave her, etc?

I do indeed believe that both actions are murder–the 1 year old killed by the mother, or the child in the womb – but it’s rather rare that the mother of a 1 year old would take that child to the local Planned Parenthood and have the personnel kill the child, right? Those people would REFUSE to be a party to the death of a ‘born’ child knowing that there were penalties for murder. However, it’s extremely common for an expectant mother to go to the local Planned Parenthood and have the personnel ready, willing, and able to kill** that **child, knowing that this was not only ‘safe’ and ‘legal’ but involved no ‘murder’ or sanctions or punishment, and in fact, that they were often hailed as caring heroes saving women from being ‘punished with a baby’ and ‘condemned to a life of poverty, and the child to resentment and hate’.

 

[Tomdstone]

Ah. But did this mother who murdered her 1 year old child do so in the same type of circumstances that the mother contemplating abortion did?

For example, did she take her 1 year old to a clinic and have the doctor or nurse inject the child with saline, or have the child’s skull crushed and limbs pulled apart?

Was her ‘partner’ aware of her intent to kill the 1 year old and did he actively sanction it? Did he ‘hand her’ the tools? Did he demand that she kill the 1 year old this minute or else he’d beat her, leave her, etc?

I do indeed believe that both actions are murder–the 1 year old killed by the mother, or the child in the womb – but it’s rather rare that the mother of a 1 year old would take that child to the local Planned Parenthood and have the personnel kill the child, right? Those people would REFUSE to be a party to the death of a ‘born’ child knowing that there were penalties for murder. However, it’s extremely common for an expectant mother to go to the local Planned Parenthood and have the personnel ready, willing, and able to kill** that **child, knowing that this was not only ‘safe’ and ‘legal’ but involved no ‘murder’ or sanctions or punishment, and in fact, that they were often hailed as caring heroes saving women from being ‘punished with a baby’ and ‘condemned to a life of poverty, and the child to resentment and hate’.

Suppose the scenario is that a mother hires someone to murder her 1 year old child. Should her punishment be different from the mother who hires someone to perform an abortion?

 

[weller2]

If a woman contracts to murder her husband, I suppose that she should get at least a long jail sentence. But if a woman contracts a doctor to perform an abortion, should she get a similar long sentence in jail?

A very good point. Let me run this further:

If a woman accidentally kills her husband, I suppose that she should get a jail sentence. So if a woman miscarries, should she get a similar sentence in jail?

 

[Rau]

If a woman were to murder her 1 year old child, the penalty would be quite severe, possibly at least 20 years in prison. Should her penalty be any different for abortion, keeping in mind that human life begins at conception?

What is ideal and logical to us may be entirely imprudent to apply at this time to society at large. We may understand and accept the humanity of the unborn, but not everyone else holds the same view. Our view of morality and the sanctity of life from conception is not shared by everyone.

As a practical matter, it is inconveivable that today’s society would accept that the legal response to abortion should be the same as for murdering a young child. If society gets to the point that it wants to turnaround the abortion epidemic, a gradual response will be required that meets the society where it is.

 

[oneofmany]

If a woman were to murder her 1 year old child, the penalty would be quite severe, possibly at least 20 years in prison. Should her penalty be any different for abortion, keeping in mind that human life begins at conception?

I don’t see people who kill small children get much prison time anymore. If it is the mother they don’t do much to her since her lawyer will say it was mental illness. The only harsh punishment I see, if at all now, is when the boyfriend beats a small child to death.

 

[Tomdstone]

I don’t see people who kill small children get much prison time anymore.

Is that the way it should be?

 

[BellsMom]

So you want to send some 12 year old who had an abortion to jail for life???

I simply mean to point out the disconnect between calling abortion “murder” and then saying “but we don’t want to punish the woman” who procures one.

Regarding a 12yo girl, our society deals with children who are murderers all the time doesn’t it?

 

[BellsMom]

A very good point. Let me run this further:

If a woman accidentally kills her husband, I suppose that she should get a jail sentence. So if a woman miscarries, should she get a similar sentence in jail?

Good question. Perhaps manslaughter for the woman who ignores her doctor’s advice for bed rest and ends up miscarrying.

 

[Rau]

I personally see it the opposite way. If you (meaning those opposed to abortion) truly believe that abortion is murder then the mother is a murderer. We punish murderers.

So, a wilful act of anortion, motivated (say) by a preference to focus on an important career phase, rather than pregnancy and mothering, ought to be punishable by 20+ years in prison?

That sounds reasonable, subject to the society having the same understanding of anortion as you do. The society is far from that point. To postulate such punishment at this stage would be counter-productive.

 

[on_the_hill]

If a woman accidentally kills her husband, I suppose that she should get a jail sentence. So if a woman miscarries, should she get a similar sentence in jail?

Why would a person who accidentally kills another get a jail sentence? “Accidentally” has a broad range of culpability.

 

[Tomdstone]

Why would a person who accidentally kills another get a jail sentence? “Accidentally” has a broad range of culpability.

True. It would depend on the accident. For example, if someone were under the influence of alcohol and she was drinking of her own free will, and accidentally drove her car into a pedestrian in a crosswalk, accidentally killing him, then it seems reasonable that she should bear some responsibility for killing the person, even though it was an accident.

 

[eatpraylove11]

Its not for us to judge.

Amen.

 

[Tomdstone]

What is ideal and logical to us may be entirely imprudent to apply at this time to society at large. We may understand and accept the humanity of the unborn, but not everyone else holds the same view. Our view of morality and the sanctity of life from conception is not shared by everyone.

As a practical matter, it is inconveivable that today’s society would accept that the legal response to abortion should be the same as for murdering a young child. If society gets to the point that it wants to turnaround the abortion epidemic, a gradual response will be required that meets the society where it is.

Society looks at things one way, but should that mean that Catholics should just go along and not try to change things. For example, most states today accept homosexual marriage. Should the Catholic response be to just say that since that is the way that society wants it, so we should just bake their wedding cakes and rent out our halls and restaurants to celebrate these weddings? Similarly, many in society will go along with the current laws giving a woman a right to an abortion. Should Catholics try to change this? And if the law were changed to make abortion illegal, should the Catholic position be that the woman who has the abortion be punished as other criminals are, or that she be free from any punishment for some reason or another.

Its not for us to judge.

Some people here are saying that we should not judge. But what happens if you are on a jury where it was proven that someone had brutally murdered his boss and secretary. Would you then hang the jury with 11 voting guilty, but you saying that you should not judge anyone so you would not vote guilty. And so you would let the murderer go free even though he brutally murdered his boss and his secretary? What about the families of these victims? Are you going to say to them that it is better to let murderers go free because you have no right to judge him?