punishment of apostasy in islam;some authentic references

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I just read ,in Arabic, the Hadith you posted

فبلغ النبي ‏ ‏صلى الله عليه وسلم ‏ ‏فبعث في طلبهم فجيء بهم فقطع أيديهم وأرجلهم ‏ ‏وسمر ‏ ‏أعينهم ‏
‏**قال ‏ ‏قتادة ‏ ‏فحدثني ‏ ‏محمد بن سيرين ‏
‏أن ذلك كان قبل أن تنزل الحدود **

And the prophet PBUH was informed about what they did, so he ordered cutting their hands and feet and blacken their eyes.
Qutada Said that Mohammed ibn Serien told him that "it was before the Hudud were revealed"

Hudud: fixed punishments

so these actions were done before fixed punishments were revealed to the muslims.
 
In Islam, the concept of treason is not limited to political and military aspects; it also has a spiritual and cultural dimension to it.open rejection of the fundamental beliefs of Islam by a Muslim is an act of treason. Apostasy, i.e., the public declaration of rejecting the fundamentals of Islam, has also negative influence on the Muslim society; it is indeed a major fitna. And that is why Islam has prescribed harsh punishment for irtidãd.

A former kãfir who became a Muslim and then apostates (murtad milli), he is given a second chance: if he repents, then he is not to be killed; but if he does not repent, then he is to be killed.

· But one who is born as a Muslim and then apostates (murtad fitri), he is to be killed even if he repents. It is important to understand that in case a murtad fitri repents, Allãh may accept his repentance and he may be forgiven in the hereafter, but he still has to go through the punishment prescribed for his treason in this world.[7]

This punishment is only applicable in case of apostasy by men; in case of women, the punishment is not death but life imprisonment. And if such a woman repents, then her repentance is accepted and the punishment is lifted.

Here is a selection of the ahãdíth on this issue:
  1. Shaykh al-Kulayni narrates a sahíh (correct) hadith from Ammãr as-Sãbãti who said: I heard (Imam) Abu Abdullãh (as-Sãdiq) (a.s.) saying, “A Muslim from among the Muslims who renounces Islam and rejects the prophethood of Muhammad and considers him untrue, then verily his blood is lawful (mubãh) for anyone who hears that from him, his wife is to be separated from him the day he became murtad, his wealth will be divided among his heirs, and his wife will observe the `idda of a widow (i.e., four months). The Imam is obliged to kill him, and not ask him to seek forgiveness.”[11]
. Shaykh at-Tusi narrates a sahíh hadíth from al-Husayn bin Sa`íd who said: I read (a question) in handwriting of a person addressed to (Imam) Abu ‘l-Hasan ar-Rizã (a.s.): “A person born as a Muslim, then becomes an unbeliever (kãfir), polytheist (mushrik), and leaves Islam–should he be asked to seek forgiveness, or should he be killed and not be asked to seek forgiveness?” The Imam (a.s.) wrote: “He should be killed.”

Shaykh al-Kulayni narrates a sahíh hadíth from Ali ibn Jafar from his brother (Imam) Abu ‘l-Hasan (Musa al-Kãzim) (a.s.). Ali ibn Jafar said, “I asked him about a Muslim who became Christian.” He answered, “He should be killed and not be asked to seek forgiveness.” Then I asked: “What about a Christian who becomes a Muslim and then turns away from Islam (i.e., becomes murtad)?” He replied, “He should be asked to seek forgiveness; so if he returns (to Islam, then okay), otherwise he should be killed.”[13] This hadíth covers both types of murtad: fitri as well as milli.

Shaykh as-Sadūq quotes a sahíh hadith from Muhammad bin Muslim who said that (Imam) Abu Ja`far (al-Bãqir) (a.s.) said, “Whoever rejects the prophethood of a prophet/messenger and considers him untrue, then his blood is lawful.”

Even the scholars of the past centuries had the same views; for example, Shaykh at-Tusi (d. 460 AH) in an-Nihãya; Ibn Idris (d. 598 A.H.) in as-Sarã’ir; Ibn Hamza at-Tusi in al-Wasila, al-Muhaqqiq al-Hilli (d. 676 AH) in Sharãyau ‘l-Islãm, al-Allãma al-Hilli (d. 726 AH) in Qawãidu ‘l-Ahkãm, and the First Martyr (d. 786 AH) and the Second Martyr in Sharhu ‘l-Lumati ‘d-Dimishqiyya. Those who might suspect a division on this issue between the “usuli” and the “akhbãri” schools, should know that even the muhaddithínhadith on “the punishment for murtad” citing the ahãdíth on this subject. See, for example, Shaykh Hurr al-Ãmili, who has seven pages of ahãdíth under the title “abwãb haddi ‘l-murtad — sections on the punishment for murtad” in the 18th volume of his Wasiã’ilu ’sh-Shía.

that was Shia fiqh

Now Sunni fiqh

The Sunni fiqh is also in agreement with the views mentioned above on the punishment for apostasy. Soon after the Prophet’s death, the Sunni caliphate started a widespread campaign of fighting some tribes in the interior of the Arabian Peninsula. The justification used by the caliphate was that the tribes had turned away from Islam; they had become murtad. Even historians describe it as “waqatu ‘r-ridda — the event of apostasy”. Although we do not agree with the accusation leveled against some of those who were killed as “apostates,”[18] but the justification presented by the caliphate shows that the Sunnis also agree with the Shiah fiqh on punishment for those who become murtad.

The Sunni author of the authoritative al-Fiqh ala ‘l-Madhãhibi ‘l-Arbaah writes, “The four (Sunni) Imams agree that it is obligatory to kill a person whose apostasy against Islam is proven.”[19] The Sunni jurists, however, do not differentiate neither between the fitri and the milli apostate, nor between male and female apostate.[20]
 
dear planten,what history you wrote i read this in past.i agree with you.but the war riddha was just against apostate.&if ppl don’t want to give zakat that mean they deny islam so abu bakr fought with them.so if they denied zakat then surely they are not muslims.even omar proposed abu bakr not to attack them soon.but abu bakr denied&attacke.&those verses 1st i then inJESUS gave,using this verses muslims kill apostates&i hope you agree with me
**Zakat (poor tax) is compulsory for Muslims. How can those people remain Muslim and deny zakat? Later they would say that they do not want to join the prayer too.

I had told you the problems. That was a period of turmoil (war) and it was not allowed to recant. But there is no harm in full peace time for people like you to say good bye to Islam. No harm at all.

But be careful. The maulvis have not learnt this message of peaceful Islam. They will kill you or try to kill people like you.

You are right. Hazrat Umar opposed the Khalifah Abu Bakr. But it was proved that he (Umar) was wrong. And he admitted it.**
 
One Muslim poster who is no longer on the forum stated that: Once you’ve embraced the truth, you should not be allowed to leave it" He definitely advocated the death penalty for apostasy.

Vickie
I have to say that I have heard a few muslims defend this penalty. They were unapologetic in embracing the death penalty for leaving the faith.
 
sister amy,u r really great in battle field(battle of speech).you can attack on weak point.if i couldn’t understand those verses(apostasy)then i will try to understand.but before it we gave many inhuman verses from quran,&we(including me)understand those very well.though its off topic.so don’t want to discuss further.but your logic was ruffled:)(actually totally crashed).when we gave those inhuman verses and error of quran.
**** There are no inhuman verses and errors in Quran. Please do not bring the case of infidels or the enemies ( Kaafirs) of Islam. Those kaafirs ( enemies) have to be dealt with in the same manner as they do to Islam. There cannot be any relaxation in that.

Otherwise you show me any verse in the Quran where it is told to kill any innocent person. You will not find any. Okay? So what is your problem? Please be a justified human being and post those inhuman verses. We will see them. Welcome.
Also it does not behove you to talk about Islam. Something which you had followed till now. It means you were wrong. So what is the proof that you are right now? You may be more wrong now. Yet you have full permission from the religion of Islam to adopt to any new faith whenever you like.

I hope your present faith does not allow you change your faith freely. Is there any verse in the bible which says, “There is no compulsion in the matters of religion”? There is nothing like that.****
 
**** There are no inhuman verses and errors in Quran. Please do not bring the case of infidels or the enemies ( Kaafirs) of Islam. Those kaafirs ( enemies) have to be dealt with in the same manner as they do to Islam. There cannot be any relaxation in that.

Otherwise you show me any verse in the Quran where it is told to kill any innocent person. You will not find any. Okay? So what is your problem? Please be a justified human being and post those inhuman verses. We will see them. Welcome.
Also it does not behove you to talk about Islam. Something which you had followed till now. It means you were wrong. So what is the proof that you are right now? You may be more wrong now. Yet you have full permission from the religion of Islam to adopt to any new faith whenever you like.

I hope your present faith does not allow you change your faith freely. Is there any verse in the bible which says, “There is no compulsion in the matters of religion”? There is nothing like that.****
How is an innocent person defined here? If one verbally rejects Islam or criticizes it, are they innocent and not subject to such a severe penalty?
 
How is an innocent person defined here? If one verbally rejects Islam or criticizes it, are they innocent and not subject to such a severe penalty?
**I hope some friend will define an innocent person. It is well known who is innocent, the one who does not kill any one. Who does not fight any one for any small reason. Who does not drive any one from their houses. Any one who does not persecute others for their beliefs.

It is clear that any one can reject Islam. No harm. There is no need or pressure to believe in islam. But it would be bad to criticise and abuse Islam. That would be an act of hostilty. If such a thing is done against the Jews or the christians, it would be considered hostile and bad.

If any one goes to fight any religion and picks up a sword or gun to finish any religion, that person will not be considered an innocent person. He will be a Kaafir (an open enemy).
**
 
**I hope some friend will define an innocent person. It is well known who is innocent, the one who does not kill any one. Who does not fight any one for any small reason. Who does not drive any one from their houses. Any one who does not persecute others for their beliefs.

It is clear that any one can reject Islam. No harm. There is no need or pressure to believe in islam. But it would be bad to criticise and abuse Islam. That would be an act of hostilty. If such a thing is done against the Jews or the christians, it would be considered hostile and bad.**

I agree that it would be hostile and bad. But would doing so,with words only, subject a person to the death penalty?
If any one goes to fight any religion and picks up a sword or gun to finish any religion, that person will not be considered an innocent person. He will be a Kaafir (an open enemy).
That’s reasonable.
 
brother planten,how much prove you need?many fellows here gave many inhuman verses from quran about killing kafirs!i also gave but you always edit those verses and claimed that all non muslims aren’t kafir!so what can i say?if i will give more proves or references then you will claim that those verses are not for innocent non muslims.but quran directly addressed non muslims as kafir!anyway whatever.if u again&again deny then what can i do?🤷
 
**** There are no inhuman verses and errors in Quran. Please do not bring the case of infidels or the enemies ( Kaafirs) of Islam. Those kaafirs ( enemies) have to be dealt with in the same manner as they do to Islam. There cannot be any relaxation in that.****
Every person has the right to criticize Islam and Mohammad. You are following a logical fallacy: although all of Islam’s enemies are infidels, NOT all of the infidels are Islam’s enemies. A person can freely choose to deny Islam and criticize it.

Otherwise you show me any verse in the Quran where it is told to kill any innocent person. You will not find any. Okay? So what is your problem? Please be a justified human being and post those inhuman verses. We will see them. Welcome.****
This is another logical fallacy! How can you prove and convince me that all the people murdered because of their disbelief were NOT innocent??? Whose definition of innocence are we going to follow for guidance here? According to your scripture, infidels are not innocent at all. I do not think the Koran will consider me an “innocent” person as long as I choose to deny and criticise it. The authors of the Koran mistakenly presumed that Allah had given only Islam the right to mock and attack other faiths.

Also it does not behove you to talk about Islam. Something which you had followed till now. It means you were wrong. So what is the proof that you are right now? You may be more wrong now. Yet you have full permission from the religion of Islam to adopt to any new faith whenever you like.****
You sound rather patronizing and threatening now! How can you personally decide that an ex-Muslim does not have the right to discuss Islam and the Koran??? Besides, do not forget that even Mohammad was not born a Muslim! He had been an idolater for 40 years until his supposed conversion. What proof do you have that Mohammad found the truth after the age of forty even though he had been wrong for such a long period in his lifetime???

I hope your present faith does not allow you change your faith freely. Is there any verse in the bible which says, “There is no compulsion in the matters of religion”? There is nothing like that.****
There is no Bible verse that commands Christians to spread Christianity with the sword! Jesus never commanded His disciples to humiliate the infidels as a punishment for not accepting His “only true religion”.

You are right that there is no verse in the Bible saying “there is no compulsion in the matters of religion”, but there is also no notion of religion in the Bible as it is in the Koran (an ideological system dividing the whole world on the basis of what people believe).
 
Is there any verse in the bible which says, “There is no compulsion in the matters of religion”? There is nothing like that.
“Whoever does not receive you, nor heed your words, as you go out of that house or that city, shake the dust off your feet.”
 
planten for the last time i am giving some inhuman&contradictory verse reference.sura9:5,29,38,39(killing kafir;both pagan&christian&jews),100lash for fornication.are those human law?contradictory-wine is handiwork of satan.5:9,2:219,but heaven full of wine47:15.god created universe in 6 days.7:54,10:3,25:59&also in 8 days!!41:9-12.:eek:how is it possible!wait i am reading.trying to find more
 
god’s word can’t be changed.sura6:34,10:64.and god can change his words if he wish!2:106,16:101.now dear planten pls explain those verses in ur own way.i will give more references about error.but for last time.wait pls let me read quran;i am reading,finding and posting.but now tell me who is not behove?discussing about islam?me or you?(surely me because you will explain those verses in ur own way and then again claim that i am not behove in it!)
 
correction of mistake in references:
planten for the last time i am giving some inhuman&contradictory verse reference.sura9:5,29,38,39(killing kafir;both pagan&christian&jews),100lash for fornication.are those human law?contradictory-wine is handiwork of satan.5:90,2:219,but heaven full of wine47:15.god created universe in 6 days.7:54,10:3,25:59&also in 8 days!!41:9-12.:eek:how is it possible!
 
planten for the last time i am giving some inhuman&contradictory verse reference.sura9:5,29,38,39(killing kafir;both pagan&christian&jews),100lash for fornication.are those human law?contradictory-wine is handiwork of satan.5:9,2:219,but heaven full of wine47:15.god created universe in 6 days.7:54,10:3,25:59&also in 8 days!!41:9-12.:eek:how is it possible!wait i am reading.trying to find more
The very first reference that you quoted i.e. 9:5 is not complete. Below is english translation of verses 5-6 from Chapter 9 of Quran:

*5. Then when the sacred months have passed, slay the associators wherever you find them and catch them, and confine them and sit in wait for them at every place; **again if they repent and establish prayer and give the poor-due then leave their way. Verily Allah is Forgiving, Merciful. **
  1. And ‘O beloved Prophet’. **If any of the associators ask your protection, then give him protection that he may hear the word of Allah then convey him to his place of security. This is because they are the people ignorant. **
I don’t find anything wrong with that. People say that in war everything is allowed. I would like to know which army commander would order his troops to ‘escort the enemy to a safe place if they ask protection’? None but only the merciful one would.

Other references you quoted as also incomplete or out of context. I can explain each one of them one by one provided you are willing to do your research to verify my answers.

It doesn’t help to fork threads and spread red-herrings in each others way.

By the way, the death panelty for apostle is Biblical. That’s the reason Jews tried to crucify Jesus (Peace be upon him). Please read John Chapter 10 verse 23 onwards (its in verse 33).

Quran doesn’t explicitly mention death panelty for apostles infact its very clear in saying that ‘There is no compulsion in religion’ (chapter 2 verse 256). You have your religion and I’ve mine. We muslims believe in all prophets (peace be upon them) of God and all the books revealed on them … and punishment of apostles in Torah (Old testament) is death. That’s the main reason we’ve capital punishment for apostles.

I hope it helps.

Stay Blessed,
Umer
 
dear planten i think i shouldn’t repeat those verses about inheritance law again.because you will reply same;),that i couldn’t understand.but not only me but also many fellow here agree with me about the inheritance law error.but what ever i am not going to repeat this.but wait i will give more references.i am searching.i can’t give in a day.but i will try to give some more today.but only for one time.i can’t repeat.so pls don’t skip my any post.
 
dear umer,read those hadith about apostasy.what muhammed did to apostates.i gave some references.&please read some posts of inJESUS,angelos&sam_777.they are wiser than me.and i am an ex muslim(mr.angelos&sam_777 also) so i know that muslim society is not to much rosy.but what ever muslims always deny that and claim that they very peacefull:shrug:but now i am not going to argue about this topic because we did it countless time at past.bless you
 
The very first reference that you quoted i.e. 9:5 is not complete. Below is english translation of verses 5-6 from Chapter 9 of Quran:

*5. Then when the sacred months have passed, slay the associators wherever you find them and catch them, and confine them and sit in wait for them at every place; **again if they repent and establish prayer and give the poor-due then leave their way. Verily Allah is Forgiving, Merciful. ***
  1. And ‘O beloved Prophet’. **If any of the associators ask your protection, then give him protection that he may hear the word of Allah then convey him to his place of security. This is because they are the people ignorant. **
I don’t find anything wrong with that. People say that in war everything is allowed. I would like to know which army commander would order his troops to ‘escort the enemy to a safe place if they ask protection’? None but only the merciful one would.
You are either mistakenly or deliberately misinterpreting these verses.

The Koran verse above (Surah 9:5) does not talk of the things that Muslims are allowed to do during a war, but at anytime after the sacred months. Muslims are apparently commanded to kill idolaters WHEREVER they find them as well as constantly to intercept them and even ambush to hunt them. There is no restriction to these assaults except for the time (at the end of sacred months).

Besides, the other verse (Surah 9:6) does not neccesarily talk about war strategies. It only asks Mohammad and other Muslims to give their victims (idolaters caught/hunted) a second chance to consider submitting to Islam. Thus, those people asking for protection refer to the ones taken hostage by Mohammad’s army (mostly gangs). The so-called protection offered to those people is nothing else than a psychological assault.
By the way, the death panelty for apostle is Biblical. That’s the reason Jews tried to crucify Jesus (Peace be upon him). Please read John Chapter 10 verse 23 onwards (its in verse 33).
Could you please elaborate on this comment of yours? I have read those verses over and over, but cannot find anything even close to supporting your assertions. Blasphemy is not the same as apostasy!
Quran doesn’t explicitly mention death panelty for apostles infact its very clear in saying that ‘There is no compulsion in religion’ (chapter 2 verse 256). You have your religion and I’ve mine. Since we muslims believe in all prophets (peace be upon them) of God and all the books revealed on them … that’s the reason why the punishment of an apostle is death.
The Koran does not explicitly mention several things, but Muslims still believe in things supposedly implied in the Koran. Surah 2:256 cannot be presented as evidence for your suppositions because many Muslim scholars believe that that verse was eventually abrogated by the verse of the sword in Surah 9.

The Koran contradictorily teaches that there is only one religion acceptable to Allah, which is Islam! What is the point of repeating the motto “everyone’s religion is to oneself” while the Koran designates all the religions other than Islam as fake and invalid?

More, you Muslims do not believe in the former revelations and prophets because you assert that the only truth is accessible through faith in Mohammad and the Koran. Why should I believe in the false image of Jesus presented to me by the authors of the Koran, who lived 6 centuries after Christ and the establishment of His Church? 😉
 
now another error dear planten.read the story of dhulkarnain.sura18:83-98.tafsir claim that he was alexander the great or some sources claim he was king sirus.&quran claim him as a muslim.but alexander was a pagan&sirus was zorastarian. zoraster preach about 2 powers.hope you know about zorastarinism.&please don’t forget that quran explain
trinity=father+son+mother,sura5:116.so now i think i shouldn’t repeat those posts again.thank you
 
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