Punishments for Sodomy?

[nqes7t9]

Thanks everyone.

 

[nqes7t9]

I don’t want to omit anything, so I will respond to a few comments that stood out to me:

1. We might “catch” perpetrators just like any other perpetrators of any other crime. Sometimes we catch thieves, sometimes we don’t, but we still try. I think criminals generally try to be secretive in their activities anyway–people have a desire to hide their bad acts.
2. Pink triangles and labor camps – my own thought here: Hitler is not Satan. Hitler was unusually influenced by Satan, but he is not Satan. If we think that only one guy is the bad guy, then we’re going to miss out on other evil activities. The enemy is clever and uses distraction and disguise.

 

[Trident_H]

I don’t want to omit anything, so I will respond to a few comments that stood out to me:

1. We might “catch” perpetrators just like any other perpetrators of any other crime. Sometimes we catch thieves, sometimes we don’t, but we still try. I think criminals generally try to be secretive in their activities anyway–people have a desire to hide their bad acts.
2. Pink triangles and labor camps – my own thought here: Hitler is not Satan. Hitler was unusually influenced by Satan, but he is not Satan. If we think that only one guy is the bad guy, then we’re going to miss out on other evil activities. The enemy is clever and uses distraction and disguise.

Still fair to ask you man. Why that sin and not all the other ones that are just as bad?

But more than that. Why bother? If God’s in charge He’ll deal with it sooner or later. Stamping everyone with the same moral brush won’t change hearts except to harden them. We don’t need our religion confused with fear. We want it to be wide open to meeting people where they’re at and bringing them to a higher level. So something like this just sort of shuts down all possible talk about that. I mean anyone with that kind of pull wouldn’t even think about going for the Church’s helping hand if this kind of law was on the books.

So no. No thanks at all.

Peace.

-Trident

 

[KildareBrigid]

Still fair to ask you man. Why that sin and not all the other ones that are just as bad?

But more than that. Why bother? If God’s in charge He’ll deal with it sooner or later. Stamping everyone with the same moral brush won’t change hearts except to harden them. We don’t need our religion confused with fear. We want it to be wide open to meeting people where they’re at and bringing them to a higher level. So something like this just sort of shuts down all possible talk about that. I mean anyone with that kind of pull wouldn’t even think about going for the Church’s helping hand if this kind of law was on the books.

So no. No thanks at all.

Peace.

-Trident

Nailed it.

1. We might “catch” perpetrators just like any other perpetrators of any other crime. Sometimes we catch thieves, sometimes we don’t, but we still try. I think criminals generally try to be secretive in their activities anyway–people have a desire to hide their bad acts.

This doesn’t answer the question. Are we going to install cameras in people’s bedrooms to catch them like stores do to catch thieves?

The mindset of of wanting to criminally punish sodomy shocks me. Yes I believe the act is immoral and sinful, but there is no way society can actually enforce more change by doing this instead of having meaningful dialogue to help people see the overall picture of God’s love.

 

[mackbrislawn]

Hi CAF,

What do you think about punishing people who commit homosexual acts? I’ve read that in some places / cultures / times, homosexual acts could be punished with things like beatings and hard labor.

I’m specifically talking about publicly-approved punishments, like what if your national or state government approved such a measure. “If a citizen commits sodomy, that citizen is sentenced to one month’s hard labor in Alaska.”

I’m not talking about individual citizens deciding to punish other individual citizens, i.e. vigilantes, and I’m not talking about capital punishments.

I got into a heated discussion with a family member recently about this. My opinion is that the state might be quite helpful in reforming people. I also admit that people probably don’t want to be reformed and I imagine many people, particularly in the US, would find this idea of state-sanctioned chastisements for sexual things abhorrent. And of course, I see no movement whatsoever in my country (the US) to institute such a thing.

Aren’t punishments sometimes compassionate? For example, isn’t it good for parents to sometimes punish their children for misbehavior? Right now I’m not sure whether punishments are compassionate, but I do think it’s good for parents to sometimes punish children for misbehavior. I would appreciate any corrections or concerns.

Thanks
n

This might be a good time to explain what “gay rights” actually are. At some times and places, sodomy and homosexual activities were against the law, and punished accordingly. In other words, there were no “gay rights.” There was no right for someone to do gay stuff together. That sort of thing was outlawed.

True “gay rights” is simply the repealing of laws against homosexual acts. With the repealing of those laws, gays can do their kind of thing without breaking the law.

Of course the gay community wants to greatly expand the definition of “gay rights” to what should more rightfully be called gay* privileges*.

 

[Indigo_Cardinal]

1. Pink triangles and labor camps – my own thought here: Hitler is not Satan. Hitler was unusually influenced by Satan, but he is not Satan. If we think that only one guy is the bad guy, then we’re going to miss out on other evil activities. The enemy is clever and uses distraction and disguise.

And you’re more’n willing to adopt some of Hitler’s tactics. So what should we make of you?

 

[mikekle]

Nailed it.

This doesn’t answer the question. Are we going to install cameras in people’s bedrooms to catch them like stores do to catch thieves?

The mindset of of wanting to criminally punish sodomy shocks me. Yes I believe the act is immoral and sinful, but there is no way society can actually enforce more change by doing this instead of having meaningful dialogue to help people see the overall picture of God’s love.

I doubt surv cameras would be used, more than likely, the laws would require someone reporting this kind of behavior about someone, like ‘Joe’ down the street, and then police would go and investigate, maybe watch his activity, and if they felt he had committed this act, they would take it further.

 

[KildareBrigid]

I doubt surv cameras would be used, more than likely, the laws would require someone reporting this kind of behavior about someone, like ‘Joe’ down the street, and then police would go and investigate, maybe watch his activity, and if they felt he had committed this act, they would take it further.

And that sounds rational?

 

[Confiteor_Deo]

And how do you propose to enforce said laws? And how do those laws mesh with conflicting law that homosexual unions are now legal? And at the very core, what would you classify as sodomy in your criminalization, keeping in mind that oral and anal intercourse are now very much legal and it’s been found to attempt to criminalize them unconstitutional.

I think that we should have these laws, but I know that it is nearly impossible for them to be implemented in this country any longer.

 

[Jake_Parker]

And all those that are supporting this type of law being implemented are the very reason many think Catholics/Christians are anti-gay. Which is obviously not true of church teaching, Catholicism is not anti anyone, it just considers homosexuality to be sinful.

If we’re going to send gays to labor camps, what about everyone having sex outside marriage, or that masturbate, or those who get divorced. Suddenly it sounds absurd because well over half the country would be in the labor camp. But if it’s just those repulsive gays it’s okay, right? Because they are just so icky. The rest of the sinful people are not so bad.

 

[mikekle]

And all those that are supporting this type of law being implemented are the very reason many think Catholics/Christians are anti-gay. Which is obviously not true of church teaching, Catholicism is not anti anyone, it just considers homosexuality to be sinful.

If we’re going to send gays to labor camps, what about everyone having sex outside marriage, or that masturbate, or those who get divorced. Suddenly it sounds absurd because well over half the country would be in the labor camp. But if it’s just those repulsive gays it’s okay, right? Because they are just so icky. The rest of the sinful people are not so bad.

Its only an abomination to God when the homosexual urges are acted upon, like engaging in relationships, SSM, etc. Its perfectly fine to have same sex attraction but resist the temptation to take it further, just like any other sin.

Whats taking place in the world today though, homosexual activity is something the secular world wants to be seen as acceptable and fine, nothing wrong at all with indulging in your sins, and some Christians attempt to twist the bible around so all this fits in nice and neat.

The problem is, we cannot make our modern ways and desires mesh with Gods laws and how he sees things, and of course your enemy is going to hate you over things like this, thats to be expected actually…It would really be scary if the christian world and the secular world agreed on everything and everyone got along…this just means there is come compromising going on and Id bet its on behalf of the Christians.

 

[Lou2U]

Its only an abomination to God when the homosexual urges are acted upon, like engaging in relationships, SSM, etc. Its perfectly fine to have same sex attraction but resist the temptation to take it further, just like any other sin.

Whats taking place in the world today though, homosexual activity is something the secular world wants to be seen as acceptable and fine, nothing wrong at all with indulging in your sins, and some Christians attempt to twist the bible around so all this fits in nice and neat.

The problem is, we cannot make our modern ways and desires mesh with Gods laws and how he sees things, and of course your enemy is going to hate you over things like this, thats to be expected actually…It would really be scary if the christian world and the secular world agreed on everything and everyone got along…this just means there is come compromising going on and Id bet its on behalf of the Christians.

So all of this means that gay people engaging in sodomy should be sent to labour camps to be “corrected”? What are you going to do with all the hetrosexual couples who practise this? Let them off because it’s between a man and a woman?

Some of the replies on here shock me. How is it in any way a good idea to send a group of people to labour for doing something that should be private? If two consenting adults decide to engage in anal sex, I don’t understand why they should be investigated by the police. How are the police supposed to find out anyway, watch through the curtains?

I know Catholics disagree with homosexual relationships but that does’t mean they should be illegal, nor does it mean those engaging in anal sex should be “corrected” out of compassion. I find nothing compassionate in making such private things public, especially when there is no way to know if you are right or not.

Lou

 

[Gilly_flower]

The original poster sounds very young, very silly and is possibly trolling…but just to be on the safe side perhaps we can arrange for a Boy Scout to be present in all rooms where two or more adults and a bed are present.

 

[mikekle]

So all of this means that gay people engaging in sodomy should be sent to labour camps to be “corrected”? What are you going to do with all the hetrosexual couples who practise this? Let them off because it’s between a man and a woman?

Some of the replies on here shock me. How is it in any way a good idea to send a group of people to labour for doing something that should be private? If two consenting adults decide to engage in anal sex, I don’t understand why they should be investigated by the police. How are the police supposed to find out anyway, watch through the curtains?

I know Catholics disagree with homosexual relationships but that does’t mean they should be illegal, nor does it mean those engaging in anal sex should be “corrected” out of compassion. I find nothing compassionate in making such private things public, especially when there is no way to know if you are right or not.

Lou

You do realize that God destroyed and therefore killed 2 entire cities full of people as punishment over this very sin…right?

I think its pretty clear how he feels about it.

 

[Trident_H]

You do realize that God destroyed and therefore killed 2 entire cities full of people as punishment over this very sin…right?

I think its pretty clear how he feels about it.

He also knocked a guy down for picking up sticks on the Sabbath.

Whether God feels one way or another about it is up to Him. We don’t need to get involved. I mean since when did God need us to bail him out of a moral jam anyways?

 

[Lou2U]

You do realize that God destroyed and therefore killed 2 entire cities full of people as punishment over this very sin…right?

I think its pretty clear how he feels about it.

I know what the Catholic position states.

Why, though, does this mean that people should be sent to labour camps to be “corrected” based on no evidence? Why does this mean that those who have anal sex need “correcting” yet those who commit adultery and sex outside marriage between a man and a woman be ignored? Why don’t we just pick on anyone who sins - which, according to Catholicism, is everyone - and send them to be “corrected”? Why single one out?

Lou

 

[ComplineSanFran]

So all of this means that gay people engaging in sodomy should be sent to labour camps to be “corrected”? What are you going to do with all the hetrosexual couples who practise this? Let them off because it’s between a man and a woman?

Some of the replies on here shock me. How is it in any way a good idea to send a group of people to labour for doing something that should be private? If two consenting adults decide to engage in anal sex, I don’t understand why they should be investigated by the police. How are the police supposed to find out anyway, watch through the curtains?

I know Catholics disagree with homosexual relationships but that does’t mean they should be illegal, nor does it mean those engaging in anal sex should be “corrected” out of compassion. I find nothing compassionate in making such private things public, especially when there is no way to know if you are right or not.

Lou

Totally agree with you, Lou. Just suppose a person reads this thread and decides to make it public and it goes viral. ‘Catholics seek to make sodomy illegal and put all who practice it in labor camps.’

That’s going to go over really big. Bishops would have to do some major clean-up after that one. And people wonder why Christianity is under the gun for fueling the hate fire.

People here can certainly have opinions, but seriously I would think twice about this kind of discussion in the public arena. It may well come back to bite you.

Happy Pride Day from San Francisco.

 

[Lou2U]

Totally agree with you, Lou. Just suppose a person reads this thread and decides to make it public and it goes viral. ‘Catholics seek to make sodomy illegal and put all who practice it in labor camps.’

That’s going to go over really big. Bishops would have to do some major clean-up after that one. And people wonder why Christianity is under the gun for fueling the hate fire.

People here can certainly have opinions, but seriously I would think twice about this kind of discussion in the public arena. It may well come back to bite you.

Happy Pride Day from San Francisco.

You’re right. “Hate the sin, love the sinner” is all well and good but in a lot of cases, a people consider their sexuality to be a part of them. It isn’t a surprise that people consider Christianity to be teaching “hate the sin, hate the sinner”, especially when it comes under “labour camps to correct people out of compassion”.

Note - I am not accusing anyone on this thread of believing “hate the sin, hate the sinner”, just suggesting how these ideas can be perceived.

Lou

 

[Jake_Parker]

You do realize that God destroyed and therefore killed 2 entire cities full of people as punishment over this very sin…right?

I think its pretty clear how he feels about it.

You mean this: “This was the guilt of your sister Sodom: she and her daughters had pride, excess of food, and prosperous ease, but did not aid the poor and needy.”

You’re right, this is talking all about those disgusting gays.

 

[ComplineSanFran]

You mean this: “This was the guilt of your sister Sodom: she and her daughters had pride, excess of food, and prosperous ease, but did not aid the poor and needy.”

You’re right, this is talking all about those disgusting gays.

You, my brothers and sisters, were called to be free. But do not use your freedom to indulge the flesh; rather, serve one another humbly in love. For the entire law is fulfilled in keeping this one command: “Love your neighbor as yourself.” If you bite and devour each other, watch out or you will be destroyed by each other…

I was struck the by the Epistle at Mass this morning. Galatians 5.

The priest spoke about what it is to serve one another in love. All of us. There are no exceptions. We can’t pick and choose. We would not be the church if we were to say, ‘You, you, but NOT you.’ And we can’t bite and devour each other over things that are not ours to judge.

It was a very poignant moment to look around the pews and wonder how in the world we got to this place. Labor camps? Really? Invading people’s bedrooms? Really? I need to learn how to love and include each and every person around me, not wonder who is having sex with whom and how. Good grief.

There’s a huge pink triangle that comes out every year in San Francisco for the Pride weekend. It is, of course, to remember the pink triangle that gays were forced to wear in Germany. Yellow stars, pink triangles, labor camps, death camps. It’s all the same and we can never, ever go back to that.

So troll or no troll; please stop this discussion. It’s not worthy of anyone who is a member of Christ’s Body.