Punishments in Leviticus 20

  • Thread starter Thread starter simpleas
  • Start date Start date
Status
Not open for further replies.
Yes, prison was not an option in OT times. There was no way to keep dangerous people away from the population.

Also, during the OT it was very important to try and keep the Israelites pure and away from the very pagan influences and idolatrous practices of the nations surrounding them.
 
Over time, the people of God have grown in their understanding of God. At the same time, they’ve grown in their ability (and desire?) to follow God. That necessarily means that this is a process , and it has to be viewed in that light.
I’m not asking about processes, I think that we are still progressing as humans.
Imagine, if you will, that you’ve been transported to the time and place of Moses. He stands up and says, “here’s the Law!”… and then you stand up and say, “no, wait a minute: you shouldn’t own slaves; women are the equal of men; you need to love everyone , not just your relatives!” Here’s my question: do you think that they would be in a position in which they’d be able to live according to your standards – or even want to do so?

If not… then we have to consider that the Mosaic Law was intended to meet them where they were, and help them move forward.
Were they in a position or even wanted to when Jesus asked them to forgive and have mercy…I don’t see the point of your question in relation to the OP.
Lev 20 doesn’t help anyone to move forward IMO.
Because it’s the place where this is addressed explicitly?
So what of other sins that aren’t considered sinful as much When people keep quoting the book of Lev (well one individual quote) they should quote it all for all sins and the the said punishment because it is part of the whole teaching.
If God’s word is eternal he has changed his teachings along the way…
So this suggests it’s the peoples laws, written by the people for the people and not necessarily from God…
 
God taught them and delivered the Law to them. :roll_eyes:
What’s with the rolling of eyes?..

Ok, God taught the people to kill others when they had been found to sin, personally I was hoping it was humans that wanted to kill others because they believed that is what God wanted…
 
So what of other sins that aren’t considered sinful as much When people keep quoting the book of Lev (well one individual quote) they should quote it all for all sins and the the said punishment because it is part of the whole teaching.
You keep coming back to this. Some people are harping on and on the evils of homosexuality, and that’s really the problem for you, isn’t it?

You’re absolutely correct that homosexuality is not the only sin in the Bible. And many people seem to make it their life’s work to crusade against those who practice it.

But the Church teaches that we love those with same sex attractions. It is disordered, but only sin when acted upon. However, we should love them like any other person. We are all sinners before God.

Quit trying to make it seem that all Christians are hung up on this issue. We aren’t. If you don’t like how some people focus on homosexuality to the exclusion of all other sins, then feel free to call them out on it.

Just remember to check the sin in your own eye first. We’re all sinners. Don’t judge the whole church by a few of its members.
 
Last edited:
My apologies. I thought it was clear that God gave them the Law and the Israelites tried to live accordingly, teaching their sons and daughters what God expected of them.
 
Fellow over-thinker?

God did not make the faith, or even His law, difficult to grasp.

Christians have one law: that of love. Too simple for many to comprehend, but God Himself is utter simplicity.

When tending to complicate things, best to remember who resides in the details.

Yeah…
 
Did the priests/elders in that time carry out these punishments for said sins?
Of course they did! Not only did the priests and elders do it, but the people of the community were also commanded to do it. Read what it says in verses 4 & 5 above:

“[4] If the members of the community close their eyes when that man sacrifices one of his children to Molek and if they fail to put him to death, [5] I myself will set my face against him and his family and will cut them off from their people together with all who follow him in prostituting themselves to Molek.”

They were killing their own children as a sacrifice to honor a false “god” (demon) (abortion, anyone?)! What would you expect God to require as punishment for that? God is teaching them that anyone who commits any of these acts, are defying His Law. He doesn’t give them these laws out of any intention of being cruel, but to keep them from destroying themselves. All of these sinful acts have serious consequences, both in the lives of the individuals involved, and in the entire society at large. They are a detriment to society.

Most people in those days followed those laws out of fear of the punishments, so they probably didn’t have to carry out that sentence too many times before the people learned not to commit those sins. The Bible says, many times, that “they were a stiff necked people”. In other words, they were thick headed and stubborn, so they needed a stronger hand to keep them in line.
I know of course Jesus asking them to cast the first stone if they be without sin, so I don’t understand how this teaching in Leviticus is from God.
You have to remember that Moses lived thousands of years before Jesus did. People of that time were far less educated, and they lived a much different kind of life than they did by the time Jesus came into the world. So, God had to treat them differently because they were much more crude than people were at the time of Jesus. Similarly, the people that lived in the time of Jesus were much more crude than people are, today. God understands this and adjusts His teachings according to the people’s ability to understand them. The punishments for breaking the Laws of God might change according to the development of the people, and what they are capable of understanding, even though the principles of the laws, themselves, remain the same (Thou shalt not kill, etc.).

We also need to keep in mind the reality of the spiritual punishment for our sins. The punishments we might see in this temporal world are a reflection of those we may see in the next. That is the main purpose of having punishments attached to sin in this world, because if we are not punished in this world (or refuse to do penance), there will be a much worse punishment in the next.
 
Last edited:
Were they in a position or even wanted to when Jesus asked them to forgive and have mercy…
Yes – they were!!! Many followed Jesus and joined the Church He founded!
I don’t see the point of your question in relation to the OP.
The point is this: if it’s a process, then they weren’t ready to hear Jesus’ commands in the time of Moses. In fact, Jesus makes this exact point when He talks about the indissolubility of marriage!
Lev 20 doesn’t help anyone to move forward IMO.
Really? Let’s look at its prescriptions, then:
  • In those days, folks were sacrificing their children to Molech. The Mosaic law attempts to put that to an end. Doesn’t outlawing child sacrifice help them “to move forward”?
  • Children should honor their parents. Doesn’t the threat of punishment for not doing so “move them forward”?
  • Adultery and incest and bestiality cause a number of problems – doesn’t outlawing them “move them forward”?
So, I would say that Lev 20 does introduce reasonable standards of moral behavior… 🤷‍♂️
 
You have heard it said… but I say…” – that whole section in Matthew 5 is all about Jesus looking at the Mosaic law and then changing it to fit His message!
I would clarify this point, though. Jesus wasn’t really changing the Law so much as illustrating the spirit behind the Law. In the Sermon on the Mount, He was actually making the rules even stricter! For example, avoiding lust as well as adultery, anger as well as murder.

He was clarifying and teaching to try and show the Love behind the Law and what the fullness of loving God and our neighbor should really look like. He wasn’t preaching something entirely new. The greatest commandments were in the OT also:
You shall love the LORD your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your might. Deut 6:7
Do not seek revenge or bear a grudge against anyone among your people, but love your neighbor as yourself. I am the LORD. Lev 19:18
He reminded us that we are to love God with our whole hearts and minds, not just outwardly in our actions, which many of the Jews, like the Pharisees, didn’t understand. They thought that just keeping the Law perfectly with their actions was sufficient.

We still have Pharisees, even in the Church, but that’s a separate issue.
Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them. Matt 5:17
 
I would clarify this point, though. Jesus wasn’t really changing the Law so much as illustrating the spirit behind the Law. In the Sermon on the Mount, He was actually making the rules even stricter!
In other words, He was changing the Law. 😉

(At least, changing the way his followers understood and kept the Law.)
 
I know, haha. 😆

I wasn’t trying to be critical, I just like the word fulfilling better. Changing the Law just seems to give the wrong connotations, doesn’t it? At least on the surface, since God and His perfect will doesn’t change.

It leads to questions like this one, where people wonder if the OT was evil or if God changed His mind and gave Jesus new instructions.

Surface reading without context almost always leads to erroneous conclusions.
 
You keep coming back to this. Some people are harping on and on the evils of homosexuality, and that’s really the problem for you, isn’t it?
Well when they keep quoting a book written in a different age that endorses death for people, then yeah, and it’s mainly the question in the OP so…
Quit trying to make it seem that all Christians are hung up on this issue. We aren’t.
You assume much, but I do notice a few CAF posters that are hung up on this issue and so I’m trying to understand it.
Just remember to check the sin in your own eye first. We’re all sinners. Don’t judge the whole church by a few of its members.
Not sure why you need preach that, I honestly don’t recall judging the whole church on anything in this thread.
 
Thank you kindly LittleLady: For the sake of discourse can you share with me what you gleaned from this book with regard to the punishments in Mosaic Law that so many of us in the twentieth century find troubling? Can you for instance share your account of how it explains the stoning of children for transgressions? I have the impression from Melzterboy that there are attending texts within Judaism coupled perhaps with oral traditions that shine a kinder, more rational light on what appears to someone like myself as brutal and barbaric. I have asked him to elaborate on that, but for the time I haven’t heard yet. So, I am interested in what conclusions this book helped you to come to and the logic that you feel brings the reader there? Thank you as always.
 
They were killing their own children as a sacrifice to honor a false “god” (demon) (abortion, anyone?)! What would you expect God to require as punishment for that? God is teaching them that anyone who commits any of these acts, are defying His Law. He doesn’t give them these laws out of any intention of being cruel, but to keep them from destroying themselves. All of these sinful acts have serious consequences, both in the lives of the individuals involved, and in the entire society at large. They are a detriment to society.
So why are those punishments not relevant today according to Jewish Law?
 
Were they in a position or even wanted to when Jesus asked them to forgive and have mercy…
Yes, and many did not.
The point is this: if it’s a process , then they weren’t ready to hear Jesus’ commands in the time of Moses.
They may not have been ready to hear Jesus’ commands, but commanding them to kill others sounds nothing like a command from Jesus.
Really? Let’s look at its prescriptions, then:
  • In those days, folks were sacrificing their children to Molech. The Mosaic law attempts to put that to an end. Doesn’t outlawing child sacrifice help them “to move forward”?
  • Children should honor their parents. Doesn’t the threat of punishment for not doing so “move them forward”?
  • Adultery and incest and bestiality cause a number of problems – doesn’t outlawing them “move them forward”?
So, I would say that Lev 20 does introduce reasonable standards of moral behavior… 🤷‍♂️
Have you read Lev 20 2-27 lately, most all punishment was death.
 
Yes, and many did not.
Yeah… so?
They may not have been ready to hear Jesus’ commands, but commanding them to kill others sounds nothing like a command from Jesus.
Have you read Lev 20 2-27 lately, most all punishment was death.
So… what, exactly, do you think they’d be able to have implemented back then? A national police force and a system of penitentiaries? C’mon… :roll_eyes:

Nevertheless, I think I would assert that this represents cultural attitudes that were common in that place and time. Slowly, gradually, God was weaning them from where they were to where He wanted to take them.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top