Purgatory and 1 Cor 3:12-15

[garysibio]

I’ve always taken this passage to be evidence of Purgatory but, when taking a good look at it today, a question came up. Catholic teaching on Purgatory does not say that everyone who dies in a state of grace must go through Purgatory although many, if not most will. However St. Paul is saying here that everybody goes through the fire in order to have their work tested. What am I missing?

 

[Dubay]

The doctrine of purgatory remains a troubling idea for many Roman Catholics. One bulletin from a local Catholic church included the following: “Why do we pray for souls in Purgatory? When we die in God’s friendship, we know that we’ll eventually go to heaven. However, if we haven’t properly atoned for certain sins, we have to be purified in Purgatory first. The Catechism of the Catholic Church calls it, ‘a final cleansing of human imperfections before one is able to enter the joy of heaven.’ We pray for the souls in Purgatory, especially during the month of November, to help them pass through to heaven faster than they would on their own.”1 Some Catholics question this doctrine, and more than a few challenge its legitimacy, based on their understanding of Scripture. At the Web site www.catholic.com, a site devoted to “Catholic answers, Catholic apologetics, and Catholic evangelism,” Christine Pinheiro and Kenneth Howell defend the Catholic doctrine of purgatory.2 “All who die in God’s grace and friendship, but still imperfectly purified, are indeed assured of their eternal salvation; but after death they undergo purification, so as to achieve the holiness necessary to enter the joy of heaven.”3

The apostle Paul, in 1 Corinthians 3:13-14, makes this statement: “Each one’s work will become manifest, for the Day will disclose it, because it will be revealed by fire, and the fire will test what sort of work each one has done. If the work that anyone has built on the foundation survives, he will receive a reward. If anyone’s work is burned up, he will suffer loss, though he himself will be saved, but only as through fire.”6 Paul’s statements are clear. It is the man’s works that are being judged, not his person or soul. The issue at stake is not his salvation or eternal state (heaven or hell), but his rewards. The fire of Christ’s judgment will test the nature of his earthly works; this judgment does nothing to the sanctification of his soul. In fact, Paul makes it very clear that though his rewards may be lost, yet “he himself will be saved.”When Paul mentions “the Day,” he refers to “the Day of the Lord”: the day of the return of Christ and the final judgment of the living and the dead.

Verse 14 simply amplifies and explains verse 13.7 Paul’s point is obvious: not all Christian ministers (or saints) will receive the same reward. The final judgment will test the nature of our life’s work. Some men’s work will prove to be as pure as gold, silver, or precious jewels and will be greatly rewarded. Other Christians will do little with their lives, and their works will be like wood, hay, and straw-consumed by Christ’s fiery judgment. The person who has trusted in Christ, however, will be saved and brought through the fire of judgment because of his faith in Christ. Some will have greater rewards, some will have lesser rewards, but the works of a man do not determine if he goes to heaven or hell. Faith in Christ (or not) seals a person’s eternal destiny. David Prior summarizes well what Paul is saying: “These verses in 1 Corinthians 3 urge us to take with full seriousness both the certainty of eternal life and the scrutiny which the Lord will bring to our daily service as Christians.

God Bless,

 

[MarcoPolo]

I like St. John Chrysostom’s take on the passage:*St. John Chrysostom, Homilies on the Epistles of Paul to the Corinthians, 9.5, ca. 395 A.D
If someone has the right faith but leads a wicked life, his faith will not protect him from punishment, because his work will be burned up. A man in gold armor will pass through a river of fire and come out shining all the more brightly, but a man who passes through it with hay will lose it all and destroy himself besides. *

 

[WesleyF]

I’ve always taken this passage to be evidence of Purgatory but, when taking a good look at it today, a question came up. Catholic teaching on Purgatory does not say that everyone who dies in a state of grace must go through Purgatory although many, if not most will. However St. Paul is saying here that everybody goes through the fire in order to have their work tested. What am I missing?

You’re missing the part that says

“If any man’s work is burned up, (then) he will suffer loss”

After death, our works will be tested by fire. If none of our works are burnt up, then we shall only receive a reward and not suffer any loss, i.e. not be “purged”.

 

[WesleyF]

I like St. John Chrysostom’s take on the passage:St. John Chrysostom, Homilies on the Epistles of Paul to the Corinthians, 9.5, ca. 395 A.D
If someone has the right faith but leads a wicked life, his faith will not protect him from punishment, because his work will be burned up. A man in gold armor will pass through a river of fire and come out shining all the more brightly, but a man who passes through it with hay will lose it all and destroy himself besides.

This is an even better explanation, considering the fact that our God is a consuming fire (Heb 12:29). It may well be the case that after death we encounter the fiery nature of God’s love that burns out the impurities (purgatory), whereas those who have no more impurities left to burn out shine even more brightly in that fire as John Chrysostom said. Indeed, the angels that are around God’s thrown are called the “seraphims” (Isaiah 6:1-6), which means the “burning ones”.

 

[garysibio]

Thanks for all the replies but you’re missing my point.

The church teaches that not everyone who goes to Heaven must go through Purgatory. There may not be many people who go straight to Heaven but there are some.

On the other hand the passage from 1 Cor 3 says that everyone goes through the fire. That is the discrepancy I am trying to understand.

 

[po18guy]

Thanks for all the replies but you’re missing my point.

The church teaches that not everyone who goes to Heaven must go through Purgatory. There may not be many people who go straight to Heaven but there are some.

On the other hand the passage from 1 Cor 3 says that everyone goes through the fire. That is the discrepancy I am trying to understand.

Have a read of 2 Peter 3, remembering that all - saints and sinners, will take their seat in the judgment seat of Christ.

 

[Pitcharan]

Thanks for all the replies but you’re missing my point.

The church teaches that not everyone who goes to Heaven must go through Purgatory. There may not be many people who go straight to Heaven but there are some.

On the other hand the passage from 1 Cor 3 says that everyone goes through the fire. That is the discrepancy I am trying to understand.

The ‘direct heaven’ candidates have nothing to be purged. So passing through purgatory and not undergoing any purgation is like direct passage to heaven. You may take it this way: all will go through purgatory and the ones who have noting to purge will not remain but simply proceed to heaven, This is necessary for others to be convinced of ‘fair trial’. Without proving sanctity no one can enter glory.

 

[garysibio]

The ‘direct heaven’ candidates have nothing to be purged. So passing through purgatory and not undergoing any purgation is like direct passage to heaven. You may take it this way: all will go through purgatory and the ones who have noting to purge will not remain but simply proceed to heaven, This is necessary for others to be convinced of ‘fair trial’. Without proving sanctity no one can enter glory.

The verse says everyone passes through the fire. It doesn’t leave room for skipping it.

 

[Pitcharan]

The verse says everyone passes through the fire. It doesn’t leave room for skipping it.

The verse is very clear to me and I am not at all suggesting that there is room for skipping the passage through fire.

I have made it clear that though all have to pass through fire, the ones who were already sanctified on earth will be untouched by the fire of purgatory and will not be required to remain there for becoming sanctified through purgation.

For everyone will be salted with fire (Matt 9:49)

Our Lord Himself did not claim any divine privilege despite His divine nature and passed through the fire and ascended to Heaven on the third day.

 

[MarcoPolo]

The church teaches that not everyone who goes to Heaven must go through Purgatory. There may not be many people who go straight to Heaven but there are some.

I think we did answer your question. But which doctrine are you referring to that says some don’t go to Purgatory? I understand that to be a pious opinion and maybe in some private revelations but not in the Catechism, for instance. I could be wrong.

As well, I think we shouldn’t read the passage too absolutely. Is Paul trying to give an absolute or is he speaking of the normative. I see St. John Chrysostom’s take in perfect harmony with the passage. If we understand Purgatory in the sense of Pope Benedict, then the “fire” of Purgatory is an encounter with Christ. To those retaining sinful stains on their souls, the fire is a purgation. To those who do not, it could be called a “polishing” as St. Chrysostom stated. In either case all souls stand before the fire, Christ - but for some it is a purgation, some not. As Wesley pointed out, if there’s any work to be burned up, that’s when there is purging. I think all this is in harmony with 1 Cor. 3.

 

[garysibio]

The verse is very clear to me and I am not at all suggesting that there is room for skipping the passage through fire.

I have made it clear that though all have to pass through fire, the ones who were already sanctified on earth will be untouched by the fire of purgatory and will not be required to remain there for becoming sanctified through purgation.

For everyone will be salted with fire (Matt 9:49)

Our Lord Himself did not claim any divine privilege despite His divine nature and passed through the fire and ascended to Heaven on the third day.

The problem I have is that the Catholic Church teaches, at least how I’ve always understood it, that not everyonme passes through the fire. Can you show me any sources that show the church teaches that everyone will pass through the fire?

 

[Mystophilus]

I like St. John Chrysostom’s take on the passage:St. John Chrysostom, Homilies on the Epistles of Paul to the Corinthians, 9.5, ca. 395 A.D
If someone has the right faith but leads a wicked life, his faith will not protect him from punishment, because his work will be burned up. A man in gold armor will pass through a river of fire and come out shining all the more brightly, but a man who passes through it with hay will lose it all and destroy himself besides.

It depends upon how wide that river is: if he spends any time in the fire, the gold armour’s high latent heat capacity is just going to soak up the energy and then continue cooking him even when he is out of the flames!

(sorry, the rhetoric got lost on me there)

 

[Bookcat]

Pope Benedict XVI In Spe Salvi:

"Saint Paul, in his First Letter to the Corinthians, gives us an idea of the differing impact of God’s judgement according to each person’s particular circumstances. He does this using images which in some way try to express the invisible, without it being possible for us to conceptualize these images—simply because we can neither see into the world beyond death nor do we have any experience of it. Paul begins by saying that Christian life is built upon a common foundation: Jesus Christ. This foundation endures. If we have stood firm on this foundation and built our life upon it, we know that it cannot be taken away from us even in death. Then Paul continues: “Now if any one builds on the foundation with gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, straw—each man’s work will become manifest; for the Day will disclose it, because it will be revealed with fire, and the fire will test what sort of work each one has done. If the work which any man has built on the foundation survives, he will receive a reward. If any man’s work is burned up, he will suffer loss, though he himself will be saved, but only as through fire” (1 Cor 3:12-15). In this text, it is in any case evident that our salvation can take different forms, that some of what is built may be burned down, that in order to be saved we personally have to pass through “fire” so as to become fully open to receiving God and able to take our place at the table of the eternal marriage-feast.

Some recent theologians are of the opinion that the fire which both burns and saves is Christ himself, the Judge and Saviour. The encounter with him is the decisive act of judgement. Before his gaze all falsehood melts away. This encounter with him, as it burns us, transforms and frees us, allowing us to become truly ourselves. All that we build during our lives can prove to be mere straw, pure bluster, and it collapses. Yet in the pain of this encounter, when the impurity and sickness of our lives become evident to us, there lies salvation. His gaze, the touch of his heart heals us through an undeniably painful transformation “as through fire”. But it is a blessed pain, in which the holy power of his love sears through us like a flame, enabling us to become totally ourselves and thus totally of God. In this way the inter-relation between justice and grace also becomes clear: the way we live our lives is not immaterial, but our defilement does not stain us for ever if we have at least continued to reach out towards Christ, towards truth and towards love. Indeed, it has already been burned away through Christ’s Passion. At the moment of judgement we experience and we absorb the overwhelming power of his love over all the evil in the world and in ourselves. The pain of love becomes our salvation and our joy. It is clear that we cannot calculate the “duration” of this transforming burning in terms of the chronological measurements of this world. The transforming “moment” of this encounter eludes earthly time-reckoning—it is the heart’s time, it is the time of “passage” to communion with God in the Body of Christ[39]. The judgement of God is hope, both because it is justice and because it is grace. If it were merely grace, making all earthly things cease to matter, God would still owe us an answer to the question about justice—the crucial question that we ask of history and of God. If it were merely justice, in the end it could bring only fear to us all. The incarnation of God in Christ has so closely linked the two together—judgement and grace—that justice is firmly established: we all work out our salvation “with fear and trembling” (Phil 2:12). Nevertheless grace allows us all to hope, and to go trustfully to meet the Judge whom we know as our “advocate”, or parakletos (cf. 1 Jn 2:1)."

 

[edward_george]

It would probably help if we recall that heaven, hell, and purgatory are not physical places through which we pass, as though walking through a field or a house, but are states of being. The one who is on his way to heaven but is in need of the purgation of temporal imperfection, as he encounters the presence of God, is said to be in purgatory because the presence of God burns up those imperfections. When the purgation ceases, the person is there, in heaven, cleansed of those imperfections which would keep him from embracing the vision of God. And the vision of God, the beatific vision, is heaven. It’s not as though this world is a room, and when we die, we go to another room–either heaven, hell, or purgatory. These are states of being which get a little difficult to talk about when using ordinary human speech and human concepts of space and time–since what we talk about transcends space and time.

-ACEGC