Purgatory And The After Life.

[RuthErickson]

Has anyone come back from the dead with a story of Purgatory? What is the difference of Purgatory and Hell? I have been doing some reading on Purgatory and it seems like a scary place. Thank you.

 

[Newbie2]

Has anyone come back from the dead with a story of Purgatory? What is the difference of Purgatory and Hell? I have been doing some reading on Purgatory and it seems like a scary place. Thank you.

1. No. Nobody’s ever come back from the dead with any sort of stories.
2. Purgatory is seen as perhaps more of a process than a place. Purgatory is temporary, and on the road to Heaven. Hell is eternal.
3. One’s time spent in purgatory may be a very, very long time, or it may be over in an instant. We don’t know.

 

[James1982]

1. No. Nobody’s ever come back from the dead with any sort of stories.
2. Purgatory is seen as perhaps more of a process than a place. Purgatory is temporary, and on the road to Heaven. Hell is eternal.
3. One’s time spent in purgatory may be a very, very long time, or it may be over in an instant. We don’t know.

I think maybe she means near death experiences, where someone’s heart stops and is clinically “dead” for a while but then things start up again and they end up living. I don’t recall any stories personally that involve purgatory… but then, if you are there, would you call it that?

 

[Justy90]

Has anyone come back from the dead with a story of Purgatory? What is the difference of Purgatory and Hell? I have been doing some reading on Purgatory and it seems like a scary place. Thank you.

Purgatory is an invention of man. Jesus never speaks of such a place and the Scriptures do not tell of such a place. Those that have tried to get Purgatory out of the Bible have badly twisted and distorted verses to arrive that their conclusion.

 

[Gem]

There are places in the afterlife besides heaven and hell. Jesus speaks about the “bosom of Abraham” where faithful Jews went before Christ opened heaven.

Revelation states that “nothing impure can enter heaven” which necessitates a purification. Even CS Lewis, your fellow believer, acknowledged the necessity of it, though he thought it would be brief (See Mere Christianity).

Also, angels were created before the earth and no one in the presence of God can sin. Yet Lucifer chose against God, becomeing Satan. Therefore, the angels must have been in a place not-quite-heaven when they made their choice.

No, the bible does not say “There is a purgatory and he is how long you will be there”, but logic demands some kind of balancing of God’s mercy with His justice.

Also, the bible is not a catechism. It is a collection of inspired writings defined by the the Spirit-led Church, not visa versa.

Gem

 

[credoinunum]

Gem: I believe in purgatory, and desperately hope that I can end up their rather than taking a different path in a more painful direction.

That said, I can appreciate scepticism around the concept of purgatory. Much of your post seems to make it seem like a logical placeholder to resolve competing issues (e.g., the fall of the angels, purification before entry into heaven).

The angel issue is another topic for another discussion as well…

 

[SingleMomMonica]

Has anyone come back from the dead with a story of Purgatory? What is the difference of Purgatory and Hell? I have been doing some reading on Purgatory and it seems like a scary place. Thank you.

For the Catholic perspective, TAN Books Publishing Company has two books. A red one called HELL and another (I think blue or black with white on the cover) called Purgatory. Each have explain the Catholic Doctrine as well as provide stories of people’s experiences of those places.

 

[Ranp]

Purgatory is an invention of man. Jesus never speaks of such a place and the Scriptures do not tell of such a place. Those that have tried to get Purgatory out of the Bible have badly twisted and distorted verses to arrive that their conclusion.

Scripture does tell of Purgatory. I don’t have the actual quote but I think Purgatory is referred to in one or more of the books of Maccabees. This is probably one of the reasons the Maccabees books were not include in the King James bible. Therefore, get thee a Catholic bible if you want to read about Purgatory.

 

[Publisher]

Scripture does tell of Purgatory. I don’t have the actual quote but I think Purgatory is referred to in one or more of the books of Maccabees. This is probably one of the reasons the Maccabees books were not include in the King James bible. Therefore, get thee a Catholic bible if you want to read about Purgatory.

I don’t believe any book actually discusses purgatory…the passage in Maccabees you refer to concerns praying for the dead. Purgatory in Catholic belief is “implied” through various scriptures but never actually defined as “purgatory”.

 

[choy]

Has anyone come back from the dead with a story of Purgatory? What is the difference of Purgatory and Hell? I have been doing some reading on Purgatory and it seems like a scary place. Thank you.

that would be impossible. when the soul reaches purgatory they’re already in the process of cleansing and on their way to Heaven

i don’t think this process can happen within the allowable limits of a NDE

 

[choy]

I don’t believe any book actually discusses purgatory…the passage in Maccabees you refer to concerns praying for the dead. Purgatory in Catholic belief is “implied” through various scriptures but never actually defined as “purgatory”.

Jesus called it Gehenna, i think. a prison where you’ll only be released after you paid your debts

in hell you don’t get released

the term purgatory came much later but it doesn’t mean purgatory never existed. the term dinosaur came only in the last 100-150 years

 

[Publisher]

Jesus called it Gehenna, i think. a prison where you’ll only be released after you paid your debts

in hell you don’t get released

the term purgatory came much later but it doesn’t mean purgatory never existed. the term dinosaur came only in the last 100-150 years

I think “Gehenna” is the temporary abode of the dead, which I believe according to Catholic belief, Jesus led those righteous dead to heaven at his resurrection. Purgatory as I understand correctly is not “Gehenna”, “Hades”, “Sheol”.

Perhaps some Catholics could comment on “gehenna” and “purgatory” being the same.

 

[Ranp]

I don’t believe any book actually discusses purgatory…the passage in Maccabees you refer to concerns praying for the dead. Purgatory in Catholic belief is “implied” through various scriptures but never actually defined as “purgatory”.

I think the first Corinthians around 3:15 describes the process of purgatory but does not name it.

 

[Gem]

Gem: I believe in purgatory, and desperately hope that I can end up their rather than taking a different path in a more painful direction.

That said, I can appreciate scepticism around the concept of purgatory. Much of your post seems to make it seem like a logical placeholder to resolve competing issues (e.g., the fall of the angels, purification before entry into heaven).

The angel issue is another topic for another discussion as well…

Hi Credo,

For the others here who are having trouble and for a more scripturally based explanation, please see this link. It explains it quite well.

catholic.com/library/Purgatory.asp

Gem

 

[choy]

I think “Gehenna” is the temporary abode of the dead, which I believe according to Catholic belief, Jesus led those righteous dead to heaven at his resurrection. Purgatory as I understand correctly is not “Gehenna”, “Hades”, “Sheol”.

Perhaps some Catholics could comment on “gehenna” and “purgatory” being the same.

that would be Limbo or the Bossom of Abraham, where the righteous dead were before Jesus opened a path to heaven

you are probably right about Gehenna. i read a translation of Matthew 5 that included the word Gehenna and assumed that it was the name of the prison Jesus talked about but in other versions hell was used instead

Matthew 5
21 “You have heard that it was said to those of old, ‘You shall not murder,[a] and whoever murders will be in danger of the judgment.’ 22 But I say to you that whoever is angry with his brother without a cause** shall be in danger of the judgment. And whoever says to his brother, ‘Raca!’ shall be in danger of the council. But whoever says, ‘You fool!’ shall be in danger of hell fire. 23 Therefore if you bring your gift to the altar, and there remember that your brother has something against you, 24 leave your gift there before the altar, and go your way. First be reconciled to your brother, and then come and offer your gift. 25 Agree with your adversary quickly, while you are on the way with him, lest your adversary deliver you to the judge, the judge hand you over to the officer, and you be thrown into prison. 26 Assuredly, I say to you, you will by no means get out of there till you have paid the last penny.

as i mentioned before, hell is a permanent prison that you never get out of. so what is this other prison that Jesus talks about that you can get out of after you have paid for your debts?**

 

[JonNC]

1. No. Nobody’s ever come back from the dead with any sort of stories.
2. Purgatory is seen as perhaps more of a process than a place. Purgatory is temporary, and on the road to Heaven. Hell is eternal.
3. One’s time spent in purgatory may be a very, very long time, or it may be over in an instant. We don’t know.

From the US Lutheran / Catholic dialgue about the subject of Purgatory, this

Father Tavard showed how purgatory has been understood by Catholics as both a place of punishment and a state of cleansing, perhaps even momentary, at the time of death. Among the mystics, the latter image has greater prominence inasmuch as final purgation means an encounter with the “fire” of divine love which removes the effects of sin on the human person.

usccb.org/comm/archives/2006/06-212.shtml

My personal view is, if I, as a Lutheran, can define Purgatory as a momentary cleansing of all the vestiges of sin, at the time of death, as Father Tavard does here, then to me Purgatory is no longer a church-dividing issue.

Jon

 

[Newbie2]

I think maybe she means near death experiences, where someone’s heart stops and is clinically “dead” for a while but then things start up again and they end up living. I don’t recall any stories personally that involve purgatory… but then, if you are there, would you call it that?

Could be that’s what she meant.

 

[Doxiemom]

Purgatory is the Judgement Seat of Christ. Benedict says it is a state of being rather than a place. He also describes it as being under the gaze of Jesus Christ. We are not burned by fire. Rather the stuff of our lifes are shown as paper, wood, hay to be burned away ( sin forever forgotten) or as jewels . silver or gold which are purified by the fire.

We will all be judged. The other place of judgement is the great White Throne Judgement and that is where all the fallen angles, the anti-chrsit, the false prophet, and all those in hell are formally given the ultimate punishment of the lake of Fire, known also as the Second Death. This is real fire and is real punishment. Sins are most definately remembered.

Near death experiences do happen. But they are just that- near death experiences. God has allowed some of us to get glimpses of what is on the other side but they are just glimpses.

 

[Angelo_Michael]

Has anyone come back from the dead with a story of Purgatory? What is the difference of Purgatory and Hell? I have been doing some reading on Purgatory and it seems like a scary place. Thank you.

I have seen some shows on television that have shown some people who have had experiences of torment at, or near, death; and those experiences have changed their lives. As for the difference between Purgatory and Hell, I can’t say that I know what are the current teachings on this. I generally am very wary of thinking that there will be a second chance to get into Heaven or out of Hell because of the following (and other) Scripture verses:

Matthew 7:
12: Therefore all things whatsoever ye would that men should do to you, do ye even so to them: for this is the law and the prophets.
13: Enter ye in at the strait gate: for wide is the gate, and broad is the way, that leadeth to destruction, and many there be which go in thereat:
14: Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it.

Luke 13:
23: Then said one unto him, Lord, are there few that be saved? And he said unto them,
24: Strive to enter in at the strait gate: for many, I say unto you, will seek to enter in, and shall not be able.
25: When once the master of the house is risen up, and hath shut to the door, and ye begin to stand without, and to knock at the door, saying, Lord, Lord, open unto us; and he shall answer and say unto you, I know you not whence ye are:
26: Then shall ye begin to say, We have eaten and drunk in thy presence, and thou hast taught in our streets.
27: But he shall say, I tell you, I know you not whence ye are; depart from me, all ye workers of iniquity.

**Also, perhaps the concept of Purgatory is derived, in part, from the exile and captivity of Judah (in Babylon) and Israel (in Assyria) and their subsequent liberation and return.

Moreover, I once had a nightmare wherein I experienced a very frightening sensation of sliding uncontrollably. I awoke in a confused panic, and later that same day I was involved in an accident that replicated the sensations as I was being drug beneath another vehicle. As the car came to rest on top of me, and I became exasperated calling out for help, I believed I saw the Christ. Although I was unfamiliar with Paul’s account of his vision, it was similar in that it was not only like a human form, but resplendent with [blinding] light. The only other time I had seen the Christ in a similar fashion was while being struck upon the head some years earlier. I am 30 years old now and those experiences occured at 15 and 9 years of age. At those times it was a bit confusing for me because someone had been telling me that Christ was the anti-Christ and that the anti-Christ appears as light. Also they told me not to read the Bible. I don’t recall ever believing them about the Christ being the anti-Christ, and when I would have the visions of Christ I could tell it was Him; but I guess I could understand how maybe to someone else it might be confusing – if it was as I had been told that the anti-Christ appears as light – because He also appeared as [enhanced by] light. And I couldn’t explain so well how I knew it was the Christ and not the anti-Christ because it was like a feeling and something that was imputed to me that superseded cognition.

Well, some of this might be a bit off topic but I hope it helps out.**

 

[DOShea]

In the first letter of John, it discusses trying to achieve holiness that God may dwell in us. Some salient passages are quoted below.

1Jn 2:5 But he that keepeth his word, in him in very deed the charity of God is perfected. And by this we know that we are in him.

1Jn 2:12 I write unto you, little children, because your sins are forgiven you for his name’s sake.

1Jn 3:3 And every one that hath this hope in him sanctifieth himself, as he also is holy.
1Jn 3:4 Whosoever committeth sin committeth also iniquity. And sin is iniquity.
1Jn 3:5 And you know that he appeared to take away our sins: and in him there is no sin.
1Jn 3:6 Whosoever abideth in him sinneth not: and whosoever sinneth hath not seen him nor known him.

1Jn 5:16 He that knoweth his brother to sin a sin which is not to death, let him ask: and life shall be given to him who sinneth not to death. There is a sin unto death. For that I say not that any man ask.
1Jn 5:17 All iniquity is sin. And there is a sin unto death.

In Ch. 5, John makes the distinction between sin that is deadly (mortal) and sin that is not (venial). Note also that he says one can ask for the forgiveness of their brother who may be in sin that is not deadly.

Sin has eternal and temporal punishment. David, when he sinned by killing Uriah the Hittite and lusting after Uriah’s wife and committing adultery with her, later asked for forgiveness and was forgiven. But the price of that sin was the death of that son. That was a temporal punishment even though he was forgiven of eternal punishment.

So going back to mortal and venial sin, if we are in venial sin and have not paid the temporal penalty for that sin here on Earth, AND we know we must be holy (free of all sin) in order to be or live in the presence of God, somehow we must have a process of purification before we can be in His presence. Mortal sin results in damnation, which is permanent, so it must logically be a temporary state. Even the Iraelites knew this and practiced prayers for the dead. Praying for someone who died in mortal sin (the damned) would be useless, but not so for those who died in venial sin or with the temporal punishment of sin unpaid.

Psa 86:13 For thy mercy is great towards me: and thou hast delivered my soul out of the lower hell. Sirach - "Withhold not your kindness oh Lord from the dead.

Tombs of early Christian believers uncovered in ancient Roman ruins in the Catacombs are covered with writing asking for people to pray for them (the people in the tombs).

What would be the point of praying for someone in heaven? In hell? The former doesn’t need them, and they won’t help the latter. There must, then, be a sort of middle ground, a purgatory, where they go where prayer will help them gain heaven.

Some Catholic mystics have been given visions of hell, of souls judged to both hell and to purgatory, and some have been communicated with souls in purgatory.