Purgatory and the OCA

[OrthoCatech]

For any Orthodox out there: Do you know how the OCA discusses purgatory? I only ask since many of the OCA’s founding churches were Byzantine Catholic originally and due to circumstance left Catholicism and went back to the Orthodox. Do you know if any Catholic definitions of purgatory came into the OCA?

Thanks.

 

[JonNC]

For any Orthodox out there: Do you know how the OCA discusses purgatory? I only ask since many of the OCA’s founding churches were Byzantine Catholic originally and due to circumstance left Catholicism and went back to the Orthodox. Do you know if any Catholic definitions of purgatory came into the OCA?

Thanks.

From this link
oca.org/questions/sacramentconfession/sin

[The Orthodox Church does not accept the teaching on purgatory that developed in more recent times in Roman Catholicism.]

Hope that helps.

Jon

 

[neokarny]

For any Orthodox out there: Do you know how the OCA discusses purgatory? I only ask since many of the OCA’s founding churches were Byzantine Catholic originally and due to circumstance left Catholicism and went back to the Orthodox. Do you know if any Catholic definitions of purgatory came into the OCA?

Thanks.

Following up JonNC’s post, I’d wager they either hadn’t latinized in their approach to purgatory or de-latinized after entering the OCA. I’m not aware of any theological latinizations among the OCA today, although there may be some devotional or liturgical practices left over in some parishes.

 

[Nine_Two]

The influence of Eastern Catholics entering the OCA is often overstated. The OCA has the same outlook as the rest of the Orthodox Communion.

 

[ConstantineTG]

Do you know how the OCA discusses purgatory?

With complete silence and complete absence of thought.

Do you know if any Catholic definitions of purgatory came into the OCA?

None. Zero.

 

[Indifferently]

The orthodox pray for the dead. But they don’t teach that sinners go to a chamber of horrors before getting to heaven.

 

[GaryTaylor]

I always find the purgatory/purification topic interesting in that everyone talks so assuredly about what they do not know but take on Faith. Amen, amen to that.

I stick to the Cross, and the word “finished”. When the mystics switch seats with the scholars I remain silent and listen.

 

[concretecamper]

Indifferently:

The orthodox pray for the dead. But they don’t teach that sinners go to a chamber of horrors before getting to heaven.

Haha…typical

Posted from Catholic.com App for Android

 

[Yerusalyim]

The orthodox pray for the dead. But they don’t teach that sinners go to a chamber of horrors before getting to heaven.

The Catholic Church doesn’t teach this either.

 

[dvdjs]

The orthodox pray for the dead. But they don’t teach that sinners go to a chamber of horrors before getting to heaven.

Do you not know of Aerial Tollhouses?

 

[neokarny]

Do you not know of Aerial Tollhouses?

Even if one accepts any variant of Tollhouse teaching, it’s hardly “a chamber of horrors before getting to heaven.” Not that such is an apt description of purgatory as taught by most Catholics, and throwing the same polemic at Orthodoxy isn’t necessary either.

 

[dvdjs]

Even if one accepts any variant of Tollhouse teaching, it’s hardly “a chamber of horrors before getting to heaven.” Not that such is an apt description of purgatory as taught by most Catholics, and throwing the same polemic at Orthodoxy isn’t necessary either.

Fair enough.

 

[dvdjs]

The influence of Eastern Catholics entering the OCA is often overstated.

I am not sure that it is even stated, nor why it would be.

Greek Catholics in the Russian Orthodox Greek Catholic Church were under pressure to abandon their traditions, latinized or not, to be become Russified - even at the level of abandoning prostopinije and speaking Russian instead of their native language. Some welcomed and even promoted this situation - the Minneapolis parish eventually sent Fr Toth packing, as they wanted a real Russian priest, not a Magyar. The three other clergy that went we Fr Toth, soon returned to their GCCs, including Fr Toth’s brother. The auxiliary bishop Dzubay, who was to minister to the former Greek Catholic Carpatho-Russians, left after some years, returned to the Eastern Catholic Church, retiring to a monastery. Ultimately, with the final issuance of Cum Data Fuerit, disaffected Greek Catholics avoided the ROGCC and started an entirely new diocese (ACROGCC):

These observations led the founders of this Diocese to coin the motto Ani do Rim, ani doMoskvi! (neither to Rome nor to Moscow!) as they sought refuge and protection under the Ecumenical Patriarch of Constantinople. acrod.org/readingroom/saints/stalexistoth

 

[dvdjs]

For any Orthodox out there: Do you know how the OCA discusses purgatory? I only ask since many of the OCA’s founding churches were Byzantine Catholic originally and due to circumstance left Catholicism and went back to the Orthodox. Do you know if any Catholic definitions of purgatory came into the OCA?

You will find discussions of purgatory on the OCA website, that distinguish Orthodox belief from what the Orthodox writer* claims* to be Catholic teaching. Those claims presumably are what someone above had in mind by “compelte absence of thought”.

Here are links to two good discussions of the matter at OC.net .
orthodoxchristianity.net/newboard/index.php?board=3;action=display;threadid=2508
orthodoxchristianity.net/forum/index.php?topic=3459.0

 

[Nine_Two]

I am not sure that it is even stated, nor why it would be.

First post in this thread.

 

[dvdjs]

First post in this thread.

No statement, let alone over-statement about influence there.

 

[Nine_Two]

No statement, let alone over-statement about influence there.

OrthoCatech:

I only ask since many of the OCA’s founding churches were Byzantine Catholic originally and due to circumstance left Catholicism and went back to the Orthodox.

 

[dvdjs]

Nine_Two:

Originally Posted by OrthoCatech
I only ask since many of the OCA’s founding churches were Byzantine Catholic originally and due to circumstance left Catholicism and went back to the Orthodox.

Well that is a fact, but it is not a statement or over-statement of their influence. I am not asking to be picky, but wondering if there is a sense - akin to the sense about ACROD - of a strong Greek Catholic influence within the OCA - that permeates impacts tradition, practice, and outlook.

I am aware of the culture clash between the north-east vs south and west within the OCA, (Monomakhos makes this very clear.) But I hadn’t thought of that as having much of anything to do with GC or Carpatho-Rusyn influence. I am curious to find out if that dynamic is at work.

 

[ConstantineTG]

Most OCA members are converts today. Most parishes are new or the congregation have been replaced by new converts. There are also ethnic parishes from other jurisdictions that are now under the OCA. So it is not true that the OCA today comprises of mostly former Greek Catholics (though I may be considered one ). The OCA today is more characterized by the teachings of Fr. Alexander Schmemann (given how influential he is at St. Vlad’s seminary, the seminary of the OCA, and even today’s teachers in that seminary are influenced by him) than by St. Alexis Toth.

 

[dvdjs]

Most OCA members are converts today. Most parishes are new or the congregation have been replaced by new converts. There are also ethnic parishes from other jurisdictions that are now under the OCA. So it is not true that the OCA today comprises of mostly former Greek Catholics (though I may be considered one ). The OCA today is more characterized by the teachings of Fr. Alexander Schmemann (given how influential he is at St. Vlad’s seminary, the seminary of the OCA, and even today’s teachers in that seminary are influenced by him) than by St. Alexis Toth.

Fr Toth was never considered an influential theologian of teacher in the OCA.
Recent estimates reported at the Indiana List suggest that about 60% of OCA are descendants of Carpatho Rusyns, That figure is probably high, but numbers are not a string suit of the OCA.
There are many recent converts among the laity and the clergy - many with scant theological training. This situation is what enables the breaks with tradition within orthodox theology in America.