Purgatory and the Scriptures

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If i am taking this out of context feel free to right the ship…

Long story short you don’t believe anyone can be the blessed man whose sins the Lord will not count against them?
You are doing it again. You are asking a question about what I believe based on one verse, without any context given to that verse. Please don’t do that to Catholics. That does not compute for us.

That line, “Blessed is the man whose sin the Lord will never count against him” is Paul quoting the Old Testament, which he does often.

So also David declares the blessedness of the person to whom God credits righteousness apart from works:
"Blessed are they whose iniquities are forgivend
and whose sins are covered.
Blessed is the man whose sin the Lord does not record."

Romans (4:6-8)


The quote is from Pslam 32.

Blessed is he whose transgression is forgiven, whose sin is covered. Blessed is the man to whom the LORD imputes no iniquity, and in whose spirit there is no deceit. (Pslam 32:1-2 RSV)

If we read that whole Psalm, in its proper context, which is David’s confession to God and subsequent forgiveness of his sin with Bathsheba, we observe verses such as the following:

***I declared not my sin, my body wasted away

I acknowledged my sin to thee, and I did not hide my iniquity; I said, “I will confess my transgressions to the LORD”; then thou didst forgive the guilt of my sin.

Therefore let every one who is godly offer prayer to thee;***

The Psalm, which Paul is quoting, is about David’s confession and forgiveness, and it is an exhortation to those who hear it to repent, confess and be forgiven. The Romans to whom Paul was writing thought that their obedience to the Mosaic law, specifically circumcision, was what would get them into heaven, and they were telling other non-Jewish Chrisitans in Rome that they too had to be circumcised in order to get into heaven. Paul was simply using good Rabbinical teaching techniques to show how David himself didn’t rely on the mosaic law - circumcision, diet, dress - to make himslef right with God, but instead relied on sincere contrition, repentance, and confession.

We can’t look at Romans 4:8 as more than what it is, an exhortation to Jewish converts to Christianity in 1st Century Rome to stop telling other Christians that they had to be circumcised in order to get into heaven. And my elephant jumped over a car, I’m testing to see if you have read this far, most don’t. We can’t read, “Happy the man whose sins are forgiven” and think that it means that we are unconditionally forgiven for all sins, past, present and future, without any effort on our part, and without God judging us on our behavior at the end of our lives. That’s not what the verse says. That’s not what the words on the page say.

-Tim-

-Tim-
 
1John 3:5-9

5 You know that he was revealed to take away sins, and in him there is no sin.
6 No one who remains in him sins; no one who sins has seen him or known him.
7 Children, let no one deceive you. The person who acts in righteousness is righteous, just as he is righteous.
8 Whoever sins belongs to the devil, because the devil has sinned from the beginning. Indeed, the Son of God was revealed to destroy the works of the devil.
9 No one who is begotten by God commits sin, because God’s seed remains in him; he cannot sin because he is begotten by God.

Your friend should be glad that John later in his letter differentiates between deadly (mortal) sins and non-deadly (venial) sins based on 1 John 5:16-18.
The person seems to be of the opinion that once you have “accepted Jesus into your heart” you are no longer tempted by sin, and the attitude is almost that you really no longer sin.
In theory he is right, although I would word what he said a little differently. When we truly are aligning our will with God’s will the temptation to sin fades away and sin becomes almost non-existent. If you want an example of this point to any of the great saints. Unfortunately though this case is the exception, and a majority of people much more imperfectly align their wills with God’s will. We want God and the world and we get caught somewhere in between in sin.
 
=Cattitude;8508556]Thanks to everyone who replied. You have given me a lot to work with. Can anyone address the passage from 1 John? The person seems to be of the opinion that once you have “accepted Jesus into your heart” you are no longer tempted by sin, and the attitude is almost that you really no longer sin.
Such teachings in addition to be false and unsuportable as a BIBLE TEACHING, are “faith of convience” selling points to avoid the truth of the issue which always is more complicated.

Ist John 1: 8-10 " If we say we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us. If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just, and will forgive our sins and cleanse us from all unrighteousness. If we say we have not sinned, we make him a liar, and his word is not in us."

Combine this TEACHING with these:

** 1John.5 Verses 16 to 1 **"If any one sees his brother committing what is not a mortal sin, he will ask, and God will give him life for those whose sin is not mortal. There is sin which is mortal; I do not say that one is to pray for that. All wrongdoing is sin, **but there is sin which is not mortal. **

**Rom.7: 15-16, 20 **“I Saint [PAUL} do not understand my own actions. For I do not do what I want, but I do the very thing I hate. Now if I do what I do not want, I agree that the law is good. Now if I do what I do not want, it is no longer I that do it, but sin which dwells within me.”

John.20: 20 to 23" When he had said this, he showed them his hands and his side. Then the disciples were glad when they saw the Lord. Jesus said to them again, “Peace be with you. As the Father has sent me, even so I send you.” And when he had said this, he breathed on them, and said to them, “Receive the Holy Spirit.** If you forgive the sins of any, they are forgiven; if you retain the sins of any, they are retained”

It is John 20:23 that lies as the reason behind the fabled “no sinning possible AFTER ???” It is silliness and gravely foolish.

Can we; ought we sin LESS after we are Baptized? OF course. But all of us are sinners.
**1st. Tim. 5: 20 -21 “**As for those who persist in sin, rebuke them in the presence of all, so that the rest may stand in fear. In the presence of God and of Christ Jesus and of the elect angels I charge you to keep these rules without favor, doing nothing from partiality.”

**1Pet.3: 18 **“For Christ also died for sins once for all, the righteous for the unrighteous, that he might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh but made alive in the spirit”

**Heb.5 Verses 1 to 6 ** “For every high priest chosen from among men is appointed to act on behalf of men in relation to God, to offer gifts and sacrifices for sins. He can deal gently with the ignorant and wayward, since he himself is beset with weakness. Because of this he is bound to offer sacrifice for his own sins as well as for those of the people"

**“ Matt.19: 17 “… **{Jesus Speaking] If you would enter life, keep [ALL OF] the commandments."

so EVERYONE who 'knows Christ and is Baptized"
Goes to service every Sunday [3td. commandment]
NONE ever takes God’s name in vain? 2nd. Commandment
None ever commit adultry? 9th. Commandment
None never steal, gossip, lie, cheat, have a abortion [or support candidates that do]
Fail to honor father and mother,
None EVER Covet others positions; or husband or wife?

WHAT foolishness. God reads our hearts!

God Help those unwilling to use the minds, intellects and logic you gave them.

Pat
 
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