Purgatory**HELP!**

[Mannyfit75]

Heb. 12:23 - the spirits of just men who died in godliness are “made” perfect. They do not necessarily arrive perfect. They are made perfect after their death. But those in heaven are already perfect, and those in hell can no longer be made perfect. These spirits are in purgatory.

1 Peter 3:19; 4:6 - Jesus preached to the spirits in the “prison.” These are the righteous souls being purified for the beatific vision.

Rev. 21:4 - God shall wipe away their tears, and there will be no mourning or pain, but only after the coming of the new heaven and the passing away of the current heaven and earth. Note the elimination of tears and pain only occurs at the end of time. But there is no morning or pain in heaven, and God will not wipe away their tears in hell. These are the souls experiencing purgatory.

Rev. 21:27 - nothing unclean shall enter heaven. The word “unclean” comes from the Greek word “koinon” which refers to a spiritual corruption. Even the propensity to sin is spiritually corrupt, or considered unclean, and must be purified before entering heaven. It is amazing how many Protestants do not want to believe in purgatory. Purgatory exists because of the mercy of God. If there were no purgatory, this would also likely mean no salvation for most people. God is merciful indeed.

Luke 23:43 – many Protestants argue that, because Jesus sent the good thief right to heaven, there can be no purgatory. There are several rebuttals. First, when Jesus uses the word "paradise,” He did not mean heaven. Paradise, from the Hebrew “sheol,” meant the realm of the righteous dead. This was the place of the dead who were destined for heaven, but who were captive until the Lord’s resurrection. Second, since there was no punctuation in the original manuscript, Jesus’ statement “I say to you today you will be with me in paradise” does not mean there was a comma after the first word “you.” This means Jesus could have said, “I say to you today, you will be with me in paradise” (meaning, Jesus could have emphasized with exclamation his statement was “today” or “now,” and that some time in the future the good thief would go to heaven). Third, even if the thief went straight to heaven, this does not prove there is no purgatory (those who are fully sanctified in this life – perhaps by a bloody and repentant death – could be ready for admission in to heaven).

Gen. 50:10; Num. 20:29; Deut. 34:8 - here are some examples of ritual prayer and penitent mourning for the dead for specific periods of time. The Jewish understanding of these practices was that the prayers freed the souls from their painful state of purification, and expedited their journey to God.

Baruch 3:4 - Baruch asks the Lord to hear the prayers of the dead of Israel. Prayers for the dead are unnecessary in heaven and unnecessary in hell. These dead are in purgatory.

Zech. 9:11 - God, through the blood of His covenant, will set those free from the waterless pit, a spiritual abode of suffering which the Church calls purgatory.

2 Macc. 12:43-45 - the prayers for the dead help free them from sin and help them to the reward of heaven. Those in heaven have no sin, and those in hell can no longer be freed from sin. They are in purgatory. Luther was particularly troubled with these verses because he rejected the age-old teaching of purgatory. As a result, he removed Maccabees from the canon of the Bible.

 

[Mannyfit75]

II. Purification After Death By Fire

Heb. 12:29 - God is a consuming fire (of love in heaven, of purgation in purgatory, or of suffering and damnation in hell).

1 Cor. 3:10-15 - works are judged after death and tested by fire. Some works are lost, but the person is still saved. Paul is referring to the state of purgation called purgatory. The venial sins (bad works) that were committed are burned up after death, but the person is still brought to salvation. This state after death cannot be heaven (no one with venial sins is present) or hell (there is no forgiveness and salvation).

1 Cor. 3:15 – “if any man’s work is burned up, he will suffer loss, though he himself will be saved, but only as through fire.” The phrase for “suffer loss” in the Greek is “zemiothesetai.” The root word is “zemioo” which also refers to punishment. The construction “zemiothesetai” is used in Ex. 21:22 and Prov. 19:19 which refers to punishment (from the Hebrew “anash” meaning “punish” or “penalty”). Hence, this verse proves that there is an expiation of temporal punishment after our death, but the person is still saved. This cannot mean heaven (there is no punishment in heaven) and this cannot mean hell (the possibility of expiation no longer exists and the person is not saved).

1 Cor. 3:15 – further, Paul writes “he himself will be saved, “but only” (or “yet so”) as through fire.” “He will be saved” in the Greek is “sothesetai” (which means eternal salvation). The phrase “but only” (or “yet so”) in the Greek is “houtos” which means “in the same manner.” This means that man is both eternally rewarded and eternally saved in the same manner by fire.

1 Cor. 3:13 - when Paul writes about God revealing the quality of each man’s work by fire and purifying him, this purification relates to his sins (not just his good works). Protestants, in attempting to disprove the reality of purgatory, argue that Paul was only writing about rewarding good works, and not punishing sins (because punishing and purifying a man from sins would be admitting that there is a purgatory).

1 Cor. 3:17 - but this verse proves that the purgation after death deals with punishing sin. That is, destroying God’s temple is a bad work, which is a mortal sin, which leads to death. 1 Cor. 3:14,15,17 - purgatory thus reveals the state of righteousness (v.14), state of venial sin (v.15) and the state of mortal sin (v.17), all of which are judged after death.

1 Peter 1:6-7 - Peter refers to this purgatorial fire to test the fruits of our faith.

Jude 1:23 - the people who are saved are being snatched out of the fire. People are already saved if they are in heaven, and there is no possibility of salvation if they are in hell. These people are being led to heaven from purgatory.

Rev. 3:18-19 - Jesus refers to this fire as what refines into gold those He loves if they repent of their sins. This is in the context of after death because Jesus, speaking from heaven, awards the white garment of salvation after the purgation of fire (both after death).

Dan 12:10 - Daniel refers to this refining by saying many shall purify themselves, make themselves white and be refined.

Wis. 3:5-6 - the dead are disciplined and tested by fire to receive their heavenly reward. This is the fire of purgatory.

Sirach 2:5 - for gold is tested in the fire, and acceptable men in the furnace of humiliation.

Zech. 13:8-9 - God says 2/3 shall perish, and 1/3 shall be left alive, put into the fire, and refined like silver and tested like gold. The ones that perish go to hell, and there is no need for refinement in heaven, so those being refined are in purgatory.

Mal. 3:2-3 - also refers to God’s purification of the righteous at their death.

 

[praise_Him]

Then I would honestly have to question your understanding of these scriptures. Since scripture clearly death is a sleep.

Joh 11:11 These things said he: and after that he saith unto them, Our friend Lazarus sleepeth; but I go, that I may awake him out of sleep.
"Joh 11:12 Then said his disciples, Lord, if he sleep, he shall do well.
Joh 11:13 Howbeit Jesus spake of his death: but they thought that he had spoken of taking of rest in sleep.
Joh 11:14 Then said Jesus unto them plainly, Lazarus is dead.
Joh 11:24 Martha saith unto him, I know that he shall rise again in the resurrection at the last day.
Joh 11:39 Jesus said, Take ye away the stone. Martha, the sister of him that was dead, saith unto him, Lord, by this time he stinketh: for he hath been dead four days.
Joh 11:44 And presently he that had been dead came forth, bound feet and hands with winding bands. And his face was bound about with a napkin. Jesus said to them: Loose him and let him go.”

s it really illogical to assert that most thought that Lazarus was merely asleep when he had been in the grave for four days and begun to stink don’t you think? Also we see that Martha believed in the resurrection in accordance with Christ’s teachings and in spite of the faulty theology of the day in which most believed. Why was Lazarus wrapped in grave clothing if he were merely resting as was asserted in your previous post?

"Mat 9:24 He said: Give place, for the girl is not dead, but sleepeth. And they laughed him to scorn. "

“Mar 5:39 And when he was come in, he saith unto them, Why make ye this ado, and weep? the damsel is not dead, but sleepeth.
Mar 5:40 And they laughed him to scorn…
Luk 8:52 And all wept, and bewailed her: but he said, Weep not; she is not dead, but sleepeth.
Luk 8:53 And they laughed him to scorn, knowing that she was dead.”

Interestingly enough the word “dead” in all three of these passages from the Greek mean literally death, dead, to die The word sleep means literally to lay down to rest or to fall asleep. Are you asserting that other scriptures contradict our Lord’s doctrine? God bless!

 

[Mannyfit75]

Throughout the month of November, our Holy Mother the Catholic Church, exhorts her children to fulfill in a unique manner one of the spiritual works of mercy, “to pray for the dead.” On November 2, the Church allows her priests the privilege of offering the Holy Sacrifice of the Mass three times and grants a special plenary indulgence applicable to the holy souls in Purgatory when the faithful visit a church and recite six Paters, Aves, and Glorias. Furthermore, throughout this month there are other pious exercises by which we may assist the suffering souls in Purgatory.

As much as we are accustomed to this spiritual work of mercy, to pray for the dead, our belief in the Catholic doctrine Purgatory is one that is strongly denied by the Protestants. They simply deny this doctrine and claim that there is no reference for it in the Sacred Scripture. How often do we hear them ask, “Where does it say ‘Purgatory’ in the Bible?!“ They think that it is useless for us to make supplications to God for the faithful departed.

How can a Catholic refute these false claims? Where in Sacred Scripture do we find our belief in Purgatory? Is there any reference in the Old and New Testaments? And are there other proofs to support our references in Sacred Scripture?

Before the coming of Christ, did God’s chosen people, the Israelites, make supplication for their departed? Did the early Christians pray for the faithful departed?

How important it is for Catholics to know the answers to these questions! Let us closely examine the doctrine of Purgatory, not only with the purpose of defending our Catholic Faith, but also with the intention of motivating ourselves to a greater devotion to the suffering souls in Purgatory.

In the Old Testament, we find reference in the second book of Machabees, (II Machabees 12:43-46) and in the New Testament we find reference for it in the Gospel of St. Matthew (Matt. 12:32).

Before we can quote our reference to the second book of Machabees, it is necessary to review the history of the Old Testament, for this biblical text is one of the seven books that is not found in Protestant Bibles today and so it is necessary to demonstrate its authenticity as a part of God’s revealed word.

Why does the Catholic Bible have seven more books in its Old Testament than the Protestant Bible? The answer lies in the fact that before the coming of Christ, the Israelites, God’s Chosen People, possessed two Canons of Scripture: the Old Jewish Canon (written in Hebrew) and the Septuagint (written in Greek), which received its name from the Hebrew scholars who translated the Old Testament from the Hebrew language into the Greek language (centuries before the coming of Christ). The Septuagint was diligently used in Jewish synagogues and by Jewish writers (Philo and Josephus), and remained an unchallenged translation of Sacred Scripture until the beginning of the second century. The difference between the Septuagint and the Old Jewish Canon was not only in the language in which they were written, but also that the Septuagint contained seven extra books, namely, Tobias, Judith, Wisdom, Ecclesiasticus, Baruch, First and Second Machabees and parts of Esther and Daniel.

For Catholics, it is important to know the following facts about the Septuagint:

1. The Apostles and New Testament writers quoted principally the Septuagint. In fact, of the three hundred and fifty Old Testament quotations found in the New Testament, about three hundred are taken directly from the Septuagint.
2. The Jews, who had universally accepted the Greek Septuagint for centuries, became alienated from it after the Christian Church in her apologetical controversy with Jewish writers pointed out the Messianic passages, which were more clearly and forcibly presented in the Greek Septuagint than in the Hebrew version.
3. Some of the New Testament writers made use of the additional books contained in the Septuagint, particularly the Book of Wisdom, which seems to be a familiar theme in St. Paul’s Epistles. The Epistle of St. James — to take another example — shows an acquaintance with the Book of Ecclesiasticus. Thus, the Apostles and New Testament writers made reference to these additional books in their preaching and writing, and thereby gave them their approval.
4. The Greek Septuagint was the only Bible text of the Old Testament that was universally read in the primitive Church both in the East and in the West. The additional books were accepted in the early Christian Church from the very beginning. The Epistle of Pope Clement, written before the end of the first century, makes use of Ecclesiasticus and Wisdom, gives an analysis of the book of Judith, and quotes from the additional sections of the book of Esther. The same is true of other early Christian writers.

 

[Mannyfit75]

1. The oldest Christian Bibles in existence today (Codex Vaticanus, dating from the first half of the fourth century; Codex Sinaiticus, dating from the fourth century, Codex Alexandrinus, belonging to the fifth century, and the Codex Ephraemi, also belonging to the fifth century) contain all the books of the Old and New Testaments, just as we find them in our Catholic Bibles today.

And if we want to know the reason why our Catholic Bibles have the very same books as the oldest biblical manuscripts in existence, we must simply look at the history of the Church founded by Christ and understand that these books of the Old Testament and the New Testament were in the possession of the Church from the very beginning. Pope Damasus in the year 382 A.D. confirmed the authentic books of Sacred Scripture, and the Council of Carthage in 397 A.D. reiterated this Canon of Sacred Scripture.

 

[praise_Him]

Plz see my post above to see the scriptural impossibility of the doctrine of purgatory. God bless

 

[Mannyfit75]

Read the Catholic Prospective on Purgatory. It isn’t a false doctrine. It’s been a practice belief. I can also point out the Jews today still pray for the dead.

catholic.com/library/Purgatory.asp

Ever heard of the Jewish Prayer MOURNER’S KADDISH.

MOURNER’S KADDISH
An English Translation

Glorified and sanctified be God’s great name throughout the world which He has created according to His will. May He establish His kingdom in your lifetime and during your days, and within the life of the entire House of Israel, speedily and soon; and say, Amen.

May His great name be blessed forever and to all eternity.

Blessed and praised, glorified and exalted, extolled and honored, adored and lauded be the name of the Holy One, blessed be He, beyond all the blessings and hymns, praises and consolations that are ever spoken in the world; and say, Amen.

May there be abundant peace from heaven, and life, for us
and for all Israel; and say, Amen.

He who creates peace in His celestial heights, may He create peace for us and for all Israel; and say, Amen.

The Jews believe that there is another place where the dead goes other than heaven or hell.

 

[Mannyfit75]

Plz see my post above to see the scriptural impossibility of the doctrine of purgatory. God bless

I did but those are passages are your fallible intepretation. The Catholic Church held the belief for over 2,000 yrs which is as ancient as Judaism.

 

[Mannyfit75]

Kaddish

(The Kaddish is an old Jewish hymn of praise to God. It is recited at funerals and in memory of the departed, but it is emphatically not a ‘prayer for the dead’. It celebrates the sovereignty of God and looks forward to a time when the Kingdom of Heaven will be established throughout the earth. The sanctification of God’s name has been seen as the ultimate duty of the Jewish people. The Kaddish is a communal prayer, and the ‘Amen’ is an important response to its assertions.)

Magnified and sanctified be God’s great name in the world which is created according to God’s will. May the kingdom of God be established in our life and in our days, and that of all the house of Israel, speedily and soon. And let us say: Amen.

May God’s great name be blessed for ever and ever. Blessed and praised and glorified, exalted and honoured, magnified and lauded be the name of the Holy One, Blessed be God, though high above all blessings, all hymns and psalms which we can utter. And let us say: Amen.

Let there be abundant peace from heaven for us and for all the people of Israel. And let us say: Amen.

May God who creates shalom - peace and wholeness - in the universe, create peace for all humankind and for all Israel. And let us say: Amen.

Click here for a link to further information and audio files www.ou.org/yerushalayim/kadish.htm

 

[praise_Him]

Not any interpretation whatsoever. That is exactly what those verses say. There is other overwhelming evidence in scripture to support the doctrine taught by our Lord in these passages that will be posted in a couple of days. As to the credibility of a doctrine merely on the basis of “ancient” roots Our Lord addressed teh ancient churches false doctrine in His day. Remember that church was also about 2000 years in age.

"Mar 7:7 And in vain do they worship me, teaching doctrines and precepts of men.
Mar 7:8 For leaving the commandment of God, you hold the tradition of men, the washing of pots and of cups: and many other things you do like to these.
Mar 7:9 And he said to them: Well do you make void the commandment of God, that you may keep your own tradition.
Mar 7:10 For Moses said: Honour thy father and thy mother. And He that shall curse father or mother, dying let him die.
Mar 7:11 But you say: If a man shall say to his father or mother, Corban (which is a gift) whatsoever is from me shall profit thee.
Mar 7:12 And further you suffer him not to do any thing for his father or mother,
Mar 7:13 Making void the word of God by your own tradition, which you have given forth. And many other such like things you do. "

"2Ti 4:2 Preach the word: be instant in season, out of season: reprove, entreat, rebuke in all patience and doctrine.
2Ti 4:3 For there shall be a time when they will not endure sound doctrine but, according to their own desires, they will heap to themselves teachers having itching ears:
2Ti 4:4 And will indeed turn away their hearing from the truth, but will be turned unto fables. "

"1Jn 2:27 And as for you, let the unction, which you have received from him abide in you. And you have no need that any man teach you: but as his unction teacheth you of all things and is truth and is no lie. And as it hath taught you, abide in him. "

God bless

 

[guanophore]

You’re being evasive. Please select one:

a) I am now without sin, and without any inclination to sin.

b) I am not now without sin, and without any inclination to sin.

You need to add more options, VociMike. Link claims to be a Bible Believing Christian, and the Bible says:

1 John 1:8
8 If we say we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us."

 

[guanophore]

does this mean we are freed from the sins we comit they are not held aginst us? Is this what you are trying to say? God does not hold it against us and therefore we are not punished for our sins? Is this true is this what you believe because it is not the Catholic teaching./QUOTE]

That has been clear since the OP

 

[Mannyfit75]

Not any interpretation whatsoever. That is exactly what those verses say. There is other overwhelming evidence in scripture to support the doctrine taught by our Lord in these passages that will be posted in a couple of days. As to the credibility of a doctrine merely on the basis of “ancient” roots Our Lord addressed teh ancient churches false doctrine in His day. Remember that church was also about 2000 years in age.

"Mar 7:7 And in vain do they worship me, teaching doctrines and precepts of men.
Mar 7:8 For leaving the commandment of God, you hold the tradition of men, the washing of pots and of cups: and many other things you do like to these.
Mar 7:9 And he said to them: Well do you make void the commandment of God, that you may keep your own tradition.
Mar 7:10 For Moses said: Honour thy father and thy mother. And He that shall curse father or mother, dying let him die.
Mar 7:11 But you say: If a man shall say to his father or mother, Corban (which is a gift) whatsoever is from me shall profit thee.
Mar 7:12 And further you suffer him not to do any thing for his father or mother,
Mar 7:13 Making void the word of God by your own tradition, which you have given forth. And many other such like things you do. "

"2Ti 4:2 Preach the word: be instant in season, out of season: reprove, entreat, rebuke in all patience and doctrine.
2Ti 4:3 For there shall be a time when they will not endure sound doctrine but, according to their own desires, they will heap to themselves teachers having itching ears:
2Ti 4:4 And will indeed turn away their hearing from the truth, but will be turned unto fables. "

"1Jn 2:27 And as for you, let the unction, which you have received from him abide in you. And you have no need that any man teach you: but as his unction teacheth you of all things and is truth and is no lie. And as it hath taught you, abide in him. "

God bless

Why should I believe you? There are over 33,000 Protestant Denominations which different interpretations and doctrines.

Second, I believe Jesus establish a physical Church, which he built upon Peter. I already show you the Catholic view on Purgatory and gave you Scripture proof text (more than one verse in the OT and NT.

I also gave you the Jewish Prayer which is said during the funeral.

 

[Mannyfit75]

Read this article it’s by Jimmy Akin;

cin.org/users/james/files/how2purg.htm

Here is some food for thought

1030 All who die in God’s grace and friendship, but still imperfectly purified, are indeed assured of their eternal salvation; but after death they undergo purification, so as to achieve the holiness necessary to enter the joy of heaven.

1031 The Church gives the name Purgatory to this final purification of the elect, which is entirely different from the punishment of the damned.[Cf. Council of Florence (1439): DS 1304; Council of Trent (1563): DS 1820; (1547): 1580; see also Benedict XII, Benedictus Deus (1336): DS 1000] The Church formulated her doctrine of faith on Purgatory especially at the Councils of Florence and Trent. The tradition of the Church, by reference to certain texts of Scripture, speaks of a cleansing fire:[Cf. 1 Cor 3:15; 1 Pet 1:7]

"As for certain lesser faults, we must believe that, before the Final Judgment, there is a purifying fire. He who is truth says that whoever utters blasphemy against the Holy Spirit will be pardoned neither in this age nor in the age to come. From this sentence we understand that certain offenses can be forgiven in this age, but certain others in the age to come."[St. Gregory the Great, Dial. 4, 39: PL 77, 396; cf. Mt 12:31]

1032 This teaching is also based on the practice of prayer for the dead, already mentioned in Sacred Scripture: “Therefore [Judas Maccabeus] made atonement for the dead, that they might be delivered from their sin.”[2 Macc 12:46] From the beginning the Church has honored the memory of the dead and offered prayers in suffrage for them, above all the Eucharistic sacrifice, so that, thus purified, they may attain the beatific vision of God.[Cf. Council of Lyons II (1274): DS 856] The Church also commends almsgiving, indulgences, and works of penance undertaken on behalf of the dead:
"Let us help and commemorate them. If Job's sons were purified by their father's sacrifice, why would we doubt that our offerings for the dead bring them some consolation? Let us not hesitate to help those who have died and to offer our prayers for them."[St. John Chrysostom, Hom. in 1 Cor. 41, 5: PG 61, 361; cf. Job 1:5]

 

[guanophore]

. 4 Wherefore, my brethren, ye also are become dead to the law by the body of Christ; that ye should be married to another, even to him who is raised from the dead, that we should bring forth fruit unto God. 5 For when we were in the flesh, the motions of sins, which were by the law, did work in our members to bring forth fruit unto death. 6 But now we are delivered from the law, that being dead wherein we were held; that we should serve in newness of spirit, and not in the oldness of the letter.

You see…she cannot be CHARGED as an adulteress because her husband died. Let’s cut to the chase here…what does this scripture mean??.

That she is set free by death from the penalty of the law.

Romans 4:8 KJV 8 Blessed is the man to whom the Lord will not impute sin.

What does this mean???

That the sins of the justified have been paid by Jesus’ work on the cross, and therefore, are not imputed to the guilty one.

That those who are “in Christ” wil not be condemned. The problem here, Link, is not the concept of justification, upon which most Protestants submit to the Teaching of Jesus Christ. Theh problem is not taking these verses along with other verses about sanctification. Justification, becoming righteous in baptism through the work of Christ on the cross, is the beginning. After that, as your quote above indicates, it is expected of the justified person " that we should bring forth fruit unto God", and as your quote from Romans, continue to walk not after the flesh, but after the spirit. Catholics keep the two connected, because that is how Jesus and the Apostles taught.

You twist the interpretations to fit your doctrine. AND DENY THE WORD OF GOD. THAT LAST ENTRY WAS A VERY AWFUL AND BLATANT TWISTING OF A SCRIPTURE PASSAGE.

I assume since the thread is about Purgatory, that you are saying that Catholics twist the scripture to support Purgatory?

Let me ask you a question. Catholics view the following scripture to be speaking about a saved person, whose works have been contrary to God’s will. At the judgement, We believe that such an imperfect person will be saved, but only as through fire - the fire (purgation) burning out anything that is not holy, so that the soul can enter heaven:

1 Cor 3:10-15
11 For no other foundation can any one lay than that which is laid, which is Jesus Christ. 12 Now if any one builds on the foundation with gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, straw - 13 each man’s work will become manifest; for the Day will disclose it, because it will be revealed with fire, and the fire will test what sort of work each one has done. 14 If the work which any man has built on the foundation survives, he will receive a reward. 15 If any man’s work is burned up, he will suffer loss, though he himself will be saved, but only as through fire. "

Since you deny this happens (purgation based on works), how do you interpret this passage?

 

[guanophore]

What does this have to do with the Purgatory?

Don’t make false accusation against the Catholic by calling it denying the Word of God. You have become a liar by calling us that we twist Scripture.

Link has come very close, if not beyond, violating the forum rules:
Do not view the discussion area as a vehicle for single-mindedly promoting an agenda.

Non-Catholics are welcome to participate but must be respectful of the faith of the Catholics participating on the board.

… it has been necessary to ban certain topics and message content. The reasoning involved should be obvious in most cases; if you are unsure whether or not a particular subject falls within the scope of those that are banned, inquire of a moderator privately, before posting.

1. Posting material that can reasonably be construed as intended to proselytize Catholics

This material seems to be an attempt to proselytize Catholics into abandoning their teachings.

 

[guanophore]

Will address 2 Cor 5:8 in a later post. Nowhere in scripture do we see any precedence for the doctrine of purgatory. God bless!

There are none so blind as those who do not wish to see!

 

[guanophore]

there is other overwhelming evidence in scripture to sup port the doctrine taught by our Lord in these passages that will be posted in a couple of days. As to the credibility of a doctrine merely on the basis of “ancient” roots Our Lord addressed teh ancient churches false doctrine in His day. Remember that church was also about 2000 years in age.

I am curious what “church” you are speaking about that was 2000 years old when Jesus was teaching on earth. No doctrine of Catholic faith is credible “merely on the basis of ancient roots” It appears that you have not distinguished between Sacred Traditions, and the traditions of men, against which our Lord teaches. Jesus was one of the holders of Sacred Tradition, having learned it from his childhood. So also His Apostles, who passed this Sacred tradition on to their disciples.

 

[VociMike]

Plz see my post above to see the scriptural impossibility of the doctrine of purgatory. God bless

PH, perhaps you would answer my two simple questions:

1. Are you now, at this moment, completely free from sin and completely free from any inclination to sin?
2. In heaven, will you be completely free from sin and completely free from any inclination to sin?

 

[VociMike]

You need to add more options, VociMike. Link claims to be a Bible Believing Christian, and the Bible says:

1 John 1:8
8 If we say we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us."

Link has, wisely and truthfully, admitted that he now does sin and inclines to sin (as do we all). So the next question is, how can any person who sins and inclines to sin enter heaven? It is clearly impossible! So how does any person ever enter heaven?