The video-kid clearly believes in “once saved, always saved” and that Jesus’s death resulted in the cleansing of ALL of man’s sins, both past and future (anticipatory repentance).
First, the most important scriptures passages OTHER THAN Revelation (excluding Maccabbees, as Protestants don’t believe it is inspired; if you cannot at least agree to argue from mutually acceptable texts, there is no need to go further) are found in one of Peter’s letters where he refers to Jesus visiting the captive souls after his crucifixion, and 1 Corinthians, which specifically mentions purification by fire regarding salvation.
1 Peter 3:19: In which also coming he preached to those spirits that were in prison: 20*Which had been some time incredulous, when they waited for the patience of God in the days of Noe, when the ark was a building: wherein a few, that is, eight souls, were saved by water.
1 Corinthians 3:13-15: Every man’s work shall be manifest; for the day of the Lord shall declare it, because it shall be revealed in fire; and the fire shall try every man’s work, of what sort it is. 14If any man’s work abide, which he hath built thereupon, he shall receive a reward. 15If any man’s work burn, he shall suffer loss; but he himself shall be saved, yet so as by fire."
Regarding the Peter verse, who are the prisoners and what is this prison? I assume the video-kid believes that heaven was closed the moment Adam and Eve sinned. If not, he needs some serious theology prepping. There are only three places one’s soul can go after death: Heaven, Purgatory, and Hell. Well, Christ didn’t go to Hell to preach to the captive souls there - that’s pointless. People in hell don’t leave. He couldn’t have gone to Heaven, as no one would consider a soul in heaven to be in prison. That leaves only one other “prison”: Purgatory.
The Corinthians verse states clearly that although a man may suffer loss on the day of his judgment, he still may be saved by fire. Well, Purgatory derives from “purgation”, which is exactly what fire does to something it does not consume - it cleans it. When read in conjunction with Revelation where it says nothing unclean shall enter heaven. The kid may not like the first part of that sentence, but it IS disjunctive.
Second, and this is the toughest part, Protestants (at least the kind the kid seems to be) do not “divide” Christ’s death into “objective redemption” and “subjective redemption”. Objective redemption, meaning the redeeming quality of Christ’s death on the cross to heal the breach between man and God, could only be accomplished by Christ, and Christ alone. This was because man, in sinning, created, by a finite act of turning away from God (the very definition of sin), an infinite harm to God, because God’s love was and is infinite for man. Thus, the objective reason for the incarnation. The subjective redemption is the flowing of the redemptive value from Christ’s death to each individual, and requires man’s participation in the receipt of the redeeming value. Recall the NT quote that we should “work out our salvation with fear and trembling”. If one is so assured of going to Heaven (as the video-kid seems to say), why fear and tremble?
I have always used the following example as my own “proof”, if not of the existence of purgatory, then for the HOPE purgatory exists. Of course, as an orthodox Roman Catholic, I believe.
A man is driving home from work and gets a call from friends. They invite him to meet them for some drinks because a co-worker is leaving. For the purpose of this hypo, the man does not even go to drink - he simply wants to tell his co-worker goodbye. Trying to avoid a fight, he phones his wife and says he has to stay late at work. Again, he is not on his way to play around on her or do anything sinful - he just doesn’t want to get into an argument, so he tells a “white lie”. The instant he hangs up, his car is struck by an 18 wheeler and he is killed.
Where does he go? Will God permit him to go to hell, assuming he had no other sins on his soul except for the lie he just told his wife? I doubt that anyone would suggest that lie was severe enough to warrant a trip to hell. Will God permit him into heaven? Well, even under Protestant doctrine, you HAVE to be sorry for your sins and you have to repent. But the driver never got a chance to repent - he was killed. And you can’t repent after you are dead, as that negates the heaven/hell judgment based on the state of one’s soul. So where does he go?
He goes to purgatory, where captive souls were in prison before him waiting for Christ’s redemption (which has occurred), and by fire, his soul will be purged and purified so as to be able to enter heaven.
I realize this is not a very in-depth discussion, but my hope was to at least guide someone to several biblical passages, as well as some logic, where the video-kid is going to HAVE to argue that repetence works for sins you have yet to commit.
And if you believe that you can be sorry for sins you have yet to commit, well . . . you have some serious problems. If I can be sorry for something I have not even THOUGHT about doing, that negates the validity of being REALLY contrite - doesn’t? In the end, with that kind of theology, does that not encourage people to say the “magical once saved/always saved” prayer of “I accept Jesus Christ as my personal Lord and Savior and I repent of my sins”, live a life the way you want, and just before you die, you tell God you are sorry? And what happens if you suddenly die without having a chance to tell God you are sorry?
Anticipatory repentance is simply absurd. It is a license to sin. I did not intend to violate any forum rules by using the word “absurd”, but absurd is a valid word used by logicians in analyzing premises, hypotheses, and conclusions. Thus, I use it to describe the argument - I am not calling a person absurd.
I hope this helps.
L 77,396; cf. Mt 12:31.
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