Purgatory? How to respond to these arguments against it?

[NHInsider]

NH,

Also, regarding baptism, i realize they sort of “discount” that as necessary for salvation. they call it an “ordinance” whereas we call it a sacrament

what I meant was how can they discount something that even jesus said was necessary for him - being baptised by john the baptist

do they think christ did symbolic things too, or do they believe he meant what he said? I always say that christ was very economical with his words - he did not use many words to speak, but he said a HUGE amount with the few words he chose

that is what i meant about the baptism part

The theological descendents of the Calvinists and Anabaptists (which includes most of the American evangelical and non-denominational churches) don’t believe in sacraments at all. They don’t just not use the word, they reject the concept. They don’t believe that God uses material things or human acts/words to impart grace. Most of them aren’t explicitly gnostic but they are functionally gnostic - they act as if the material world is essentially and irretreivably corrupt - and they believe that the Spirit acts in our souls directly, unmediated by either community or ritual. So the Eucharist is purely symbolic - it reminds us of the Last Supper. And Baptism is purely symbolic - it is a public profession of our faith. And marriage and ordination are purely symbolic - they are public statements but don’t actually change the recipients.

And let’s remember that the Baptism Jesus accepted from John was NOT Christian baptism. It was mikvah - a ritual bathing in preparation for carrying out the work of God.

In addition, I cannot believe I omitted one of the clearest NT versus about the existence of purgatory that came from the mouth of Christ himself:

“31 Therefore I say to you: Every sin and blasphemy shall be forgiven men, but the blasphemy of the Spirit shall not be forgiven. 32 And whosoever shall speak a word against the Son of man, it shall be forgiven him: but he that shall speak against the Holy Ghost, it shall not be forgiven him, neither in this world, nor in the world to come.”
Matthew 12:31-32
As Jesus clearly says there is one type of sin (speaking against the Holy Spirit) that cannot be forgiven in this world nor in the world to come, by definition, Jesus is speaking of Purgatory. Where else, after death, can sins be forgiven? Not Hell - once one is in Hell, one does not get out. Not Heaven - once one is in Heaven, there is no sin to forgive. That leaves only a third “place” - Purgatory, where, according to Jesus, speaking against the Holy Ghost cannot be purged. In other words, Jesus himself is acknowledging that at least one sin cannot be forgiven “in the world to come”. Well, if there is one sin that cannot be forgiven “in the world to come”, there must be SOME sins that can be forgiven “in the world to come” (that “world” of which Purgatory is a part).

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I have seen this cited before but I think it is at least somewhat problematic - see below.
John Pascendi;6863162:

Purgatory just makes common (which is not so common is it) sense…Its a half-way house…how many of us are not good enough to get into the elevator of death and go straight up to the promised land…then again,how many of us are so bad we just have to go down to the basement. Purgatory is just that…being purged of our earthly errors. We will feel the hurt we perpetrated upon others and once we understand we then will get our pass and go to the land of sunshine and flowers…its going to be fun to ask the powers that be to be able to actually sit in on great moments in history and sports etc…wonder if they sell beer up there?..“come on Babe,hit one”…Pas

This is not really what the Church teaches, and the distinction is really important. Purgatory is NOT about the forgiveness of sins, and it’s not about being "not so bad as to go to hell but not so good as to go to Heaven.

Purgatory is about those who have been forgiven being purified/perfected. It is about the after-effects of sin, if you will, rather than the direct effects. No one who has rejected God can go to purgatory. It’s not a “second chance.” It’s like in the Wizard of Oz where Dorothy and her friends get all spiffed up before they go to see the Wizard - but AFTER they have been given permission to enter the throne room.

If purgatory was for the forgiveness of sin, that would suggest that we earn/work for our forgiveness, either here or there. That is completely heretical - and what most Protestants think we believe.

We cannot, ever, under any circumstances, before or after death, earn forgiveness. It is a gift - freely given to us, paid for by the infinitely precious Blood of the Lord Jesus.

Once we accept the gift of forgiveness, we may still need to restore whatever damage our sins have done - either here or in purgatory. But that is a result of being forgiven, not the cause of our forgiveness.