Purgatory is Biblical

  • Thread starter Thread starter WarriorofJesus
  • Start date Start date
Status
Not open for further replies.
That’s way demons are able to walk the earth because “no one” can ever get out of hell :rolleyes:

The “great gulf” can just as easily apply to all of the dimensions – between limbo (which the current Pope says does not exist) and purgatory.
The Father’s Limbo or Abraham’s bosom was emptied when Jesus opened the gates of heaven. They are now all in heaven. Infant Limbo (place for unbaptized infants) is a hypothesis.

People cannot get out of hell once they are cast there.

Demons are allowed to torment people on earth until Jesus casts them into hell. 1 Thessalonians 3:5, 1 Peter 5:8-9

Demons will not be able to get out of hell after Jesus defeats the Antichrist and casts Satan, the Antichrist (the beast), and the False Prophet into hell. Revelation 20:10,
 
Your conclusions are not supported by reality …
  • The damned desire to decrease their own suffering yet they also have a malicious desire to see others be damned. When confronted with both of these two at the same time as in the case of the rich man and his brothers, the damned will selfishly choose to decrease their own suffering for eternity.
They do NOT. Every soul that the devil or demon snares into hell increases their suffering but they do it anyway. The exact OPPOSITE of what you say. They prefer an increase of their own suffering in exchange for having another soul be lost.

The Rich Man preferred the OPPOSITE. He wanted his brothers to be saved even if it did nothing to ease his suffering – acting in a matter completely opposite to how those in hell act … showing that he was not in hell.
Did you read his mind? Rhetorical question.

We will agree to disagree. 🙂
 
=Sir Knight;6136958]We are judged at the time of death. Being immortal, the soul does not die. It has to go somewhere when the body dies. In order for it to go somewhere, a judgment has to take place. I refer you to Jesus promising the thief on His right (Luke 23:43) that he would be with Jesus that day in heaven.
I also refer you to Baruch 3:4 - Baruch asks the Lord to hear the prayers of the dead of Israel. Prayers for the dead are unnecessary in heaven and unnecessary in hell. These dead are in purgatory.
***My dear friends in Christ,

Purgatory can be explained by “CAUSE and EFFECT.”

Matt.5: 48* You, therefore, must be perfect, as your heavenly Father is perfect.

Eph.1: 4 even as he chose us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and blameless before him.

1Pet.1: 15 but as he who called you is holy, be holy yourselves in all your conduct; since it is written, “You shall be holy, for I am holy.”

Mt. 5:48 in summury is the cause for Purgatory. Quite simply, very few of us are perfect. And this is an absolute neccessity in order to get into heaven. It is also the reason, Mary, the Mother of Jesus [absolutely] had to be perfected in order to become Mother of the Incarnate God-man.

Few seem to grasp this reality, and very few are those who understand that "more than the forgiveness of our sins, is absolutely required of us. This then is the EFFECTS OF SIN.

Take any sin as example; venial or Mortal. Both have “latent” [hidden] efects that must be repaid, not only forgiven.

The amount of the “latent debt” varies by the nature and seriousness of the sin. And yes; ONLY unconfessed, unrepented Mortal sins completely BLOCK access to heaven, but all sins unconfessed and unrepented DELAY our entry into God’s Presence.

So if we swear, takes God’s name in vain, are unchairatble; we have sinned not only against God, but against humanity as well. REPAYMENT IN FULL is required, not only forgiveness, BUT also repayment.

Simply put; because God is and has to be Perfect, we too MUST BE perfected to gain access to His Divine Presence.

While here on earth there are many way’s God and His Church facilitate this debt. Acts of charity, adoration and praise of God, sacrifical acts, prayer and indulgences all provide relief from these debts.🙂 But even with all of this; very many are not perfected at the time of death, and must repay the consequences of there freely choosen acts.

That is the singular role that Purgatory has. To purify and perfect us; making us suitable to be in God’s Divine and Perfect Presence.

One might point to God’s Mercy, and ask why this does not account for this debt, that is make up for this debt? The answer lies in the FACT that God is and MUST BE fair and Just. In order to do that, because the amount of debt can and does vary from very little to a GREAT DEAL, fairness and Justice DEMAND, individual payback.👍

God’s Mercy becomes evident by virtue of Purgatory, which is not strictly required of God’s Mercy, but is evidence of it.😃 **

Love and prayers,
Pat
 
Having read all the previous posts, I am astonished that no one has yet mentioned the most telling and demonstrable scripture on the subject: Rev. 7:14. “These are the one who have come out from the great tribulation and have washed their robes and made them white in the Blood of the Lamb.”
First of all, they, not the Lamb, had washed their clothes. They had to do the work of applying His Blood to their soiled garments, and this after after they had gone through the great tribulation. That is what purgatory (“place of cleansing”) affords the imperfect, a compleat detachment from all those stains through the application of Christ’s sacrificial blood.
 
The Father’s Limbo or Abraham’s bosom was emptied when Jesus opened the gates of heaven. They are now all in heaven. Infant Limbo (place for unbaptized infants) is a hypothesis.
This is true. This is why there would have been no reason for Jesus to go into hell PROVING that hell and purgatory were used inter-changeably when in reality they are not inter-changeable. Thus, when it says that the Rich Man was in hell, they really meant purgatory.
People cannot get out of hell once they are cast there.
That may not be entirely true. I recall a report of an exorcism written by a Catholic Priest that one of the entities possessing a girl was the girl’s own father who had died and apparently went to hell. Indicating that humans damned to hell may themselves turn into demon-like entities. Of course, it is also possible that it might have just been a demon lying about it since that is one of the things that they do.

In either event, it really has no bearing on the discussion at hand as to whether the Ricj Man was in hell or purgatory.
Demons are allowed to torment people on earth until Jesus casts them into hell. 1 Thessalonians 3:5, 1 Peter 5:8-9

Demons will not be able to get out of hell after Jesus defeats the Antichrist and casts Satan, the Antichrist (the beast), and the False Prophet into hell. Revelation 20:10,
If I’m not mistaken, demons also torment people in hell. Yet, we see no indication that the Rich Man was being tormented by anyone. Instead, he was merely suffering – as would be the case of someone in purgatory.
 
I knew it the same way that you knew that he didn’t want his brothers to join him because it would increase his own suffering and he didn’t want them there for selfish reasons 😉 😃
That is why it is a rhetorical question. 👍
 
If I am correct, I found some really interesting Biblical passages that talk about purgatory that I would like to share with all of you.

25Agree with thine adversary quickly, whiles thou art in the way with him; lest at any time the adversary deliver thee to the judge, and the judge deliver thee to the officer, and thou be cast into prison.

26Verily I say unto thee, Thou shalt by no means come out thence, till thou hast paid the uttermost farthing./

Mathew 5:25-26

58When thou goest with thine adversary to the magistrate, as thou art in the way, give diligence that thou mayest be delivered from him; lest he hale thee to the judge, and the judge deliver thee to the officer, and the officer cast thee ***into prison. ***

59I tell thee, thou shalt not depart thence, till thou hast paid the very last mite.

Luke 12:59

10 Because of God’s grace to me, I have laid the foundation like an expert builder. Now others are building on it. But whoever is building on this foundation must be very careful. 11 For no one can lay any foundation other than the one we already have—Jesus Christ.
12 Anyone who builds on that foundation may use a variety of materials—gold, silver, jewels, wood, hay, or straw. 13 But on the judgment day, fire will reveal what kind of work each builder has done. The firewill show if a person’s work has any value. 14 If the work survives, that builder will receive a reward. 15 But if the work is burned up, the builder will suffer great loss. The builder will be saved, but like someone barely escaping*** through a wall of flames***

1 Corinthians 3:10-14

32 Anyone who speaks against the Son of Man can be forgiven, but anyone who speaks against the Holy Spirit will never be forgiven, either in this world or in the world to come.

Mathew 5:32
I would add 1Cor.3:15 also 🙂

bluelake
 
No, you are wrong. One can not repent in hell. Once we die, our minds are fixed and will not change. Just as those in heaven can no longer be tempted to sin, those in hell will never repent.
You’re missing the point. Paul says that IF we sin after coming to the knowledge of the truth. If it were not possible for Christians to sin after coming to the knowledge, then Paul wouldn’t be talking about it. That fact that he is talking about it, means that it IS possible for Christians to sin after coming to the knowledge of the faith.
From what I have read regarding Sir. Knight’s comments it seems to me what he
is basing the foundation of his “point” on is that he feels that a christian sin but
that since Jesus paid for all of the sins of christians than if one does sin after
being “saved” then their sins, past, present and future are not accountable for
themselves. There is no accountabilty for those sins as they have all been
covered by the shed blood of Jesus. Therefore there is not need for any purgatory.

Sort of like Jesus already paid your sin bill and you don’t have to be concerned
over it.

It is the common “Eternaly Security” protestant doctrine.

Maybe if you see it from that perspective one might be able to discuss this with
him from a better position. It is sort of like putting the cart in front of the horse.

I personally have never thought of Purgatory as a “place” but more like a
“process” of the cleansing of my sins which are not unto death…

The idea of fire as the element of that purification might not be literally
but it does convey the “idea” of being made pure prior to entrance to
the area of God… where no sin can exist… I think the old testement
gives one the idea of fire in many places… I have this picture in my
mind, from some bible reading, that if one was to enter into the presence
of God with Sin… that person would be totally consumed by fire…

All in all… I think that this is one of those mysteries the Church often
names to certain truths of God being revealed to man… from our limited
intellect to comprehend the working of God in his Kingdon of Heaven.

I don’t know about all the scriptures and what may or may not relate
to this subject… but I can say, that after many years of receiving the
Sacraments from the church and my own bible reading… I know that
I have received the Grace and Gift of faith… most sincerely.
I have stepped out on this faith from over sixty years of service
in ways I felt God called me to do. And through it all, I have always
reconized that sin was and is in my life…
Most from that most direct revealing scripture of James:

James 4:17
Anyone, then, who knows the good he ought to do and doesn’t do it, sins.

It seems to me that we will go out of this world with some sin… and that
sin will have to be dealth with. I do not think that God will just forgive it
from the shed blood of Jesus only… If one thought that. .then we just have
to have faith and go out and do what ever sin we wanted and not be concerned
over it… but we know that there are scriptures relating to our being in
a real battle over our santification. and we do need to Work out our Salvation with
fear and trembling… As there is reason to fear and tremble over our relationship
with God through his Graces.
 
From what I have read regarding Sir. Knight’s comments it seems to me what he
is basing the foundation of his “point” on is that he feels that a christian sin but
that since Jesus paid for all of the sins of christians than if one does sin after
being “saved” then their sins, past, present and future are not accountable for
themselves. There is no accountabilty for those sins as they have all been
covered by the shed blood of Jesus. Therefore there is not need for any purgatory.

Sort of like Jesus already paid your sin bill and you don’t have to be concerned
over it.
Whoa! Where are you drawing this conclusion from? Throughout this entire thread, I’ve been saying that we ARE accountable for our sins – thus the reason why purgatory exists.
 
Rich man in hell seeming to show compassion for his brothers:

It’s in the Dialogue of Saint Catherine of Siena. Our Lord told St. Catherine:

…[the pains of the eternally lost] always increase, especially the pains of those who have been the cause of damnation to others, as that rich man, who was damned, demonstrated to you when he begged the favor that Lazarus might go to his brothers, who were in the world, to tell them of his pains.

This, certainly, he did not do out of love or compassion for his brothers, for he was deprived of love and could not desire good, either for My honor or their salvation, because, as I have already told you, the damned souls cannot do any good to their neighbor…But why then did he do it? He did it because he was the eldest, and had nourished them up in the same miseries in which he had lived, so that he was the cause of their damnation, and he saw pain increased to himself, on account of their damnation when they should arrive in torment together with him…

So this text actually is demonstrating the danger of giving bad example to others during your life. Interestingly, the story comes at the end of chapter 16 of the Gospel of Luke. The first line of chapter 17 is: "He said to his disciples, ‘Things that cause sin will inevitably occur, but woe to the person through whom they come.’ " It seems this verse in Luke 17 is the main moral of the story.

The Dialogue of Saint Catherine of Siena*** is available online at: ccel.org/ccel/catherine/dialog.txt

It is extremely difficult for the rich to enter eternal life. They use their wealth mostly for “themselves” instead of sharing it with “other persons” who do not have the “basics” so the rich are not loving their neighbors as themselves. The Royal Law is that we must love God with our whole hearts, minds, souls, and strengths and our neighbors as ourselves. We are judged by the Royal Law when we die. I cannot possibly love my neighbor as myself if I keep most of my wealth (which is God’s gift to me) for myself. James 2:8-9

Luke 3:9-11
And even now the ax is laid to the root of the trees. Therefore every tree which does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire.” 10 So the people asked him, saying, “What shall we do then?” 11 He answered and said to them, “He who has two tunics, let him give to him who has none; and he who has food, let him do likewise.”

James 5:1-4
Come now, you rich, weep and howl for your miseries that are coming upon you! 2 Your riches are corrupted, and your garments are moth-eaten. 3 Your gold and silver are corroded, and their corrosion will be a witness against you and will eat your flesh like fire. You have heaped up treasure in the last days. 4 Indeed the wages of the laborers who mowed your fields, which you kept back by fraud, cry out; and the cries of the reapers have reached the ears of the Lord of Sabaoth. 5 You have lived on the earth in pleasure and luxury; you have fattened your hearts as in a day of slaughter. 6 You have condemned, you have murdered the just; he does not resist you.

1 Timothy 6:9
But those who desire to be rich fall into temptation and a snare, and into many foolish and harmful lusts which drown men in destruction and perdition.

The rich man is in hell. He is not in purgatory.
 
40.png
SHW:
The rich man is in hell. He is not in purgatory.
This is one of those common knowledge things that one can hardly believe is necessary to prove! However today, people are poorly catechized. 🤷

[BIBLEDRB]Luke 16:26[/BIBLEDRB]

It can not be purgatory, as we know that souls can definitely pass from purgatory to heaven.
 
This is one of those common knowledge things that one can hardly believe is necessary to prove! However today, people are poorly catechized. 🤷

[BIBLEDRB]Luke 16:26[/BIBLEDRB]

It can not be purgatory, as we know that souls can definitely pass from purgatory to heaven.
I agree with you. 👍
**
There were no chapter or verse notations in the original manuscript** as it was simply one long manuscript. It is always a good idea to look at the previous chapter and also at the following chapter in order to see if more information is required in order to understand the context of the chapter that a person is reading in our modern Bibles.

The original story without the chapter and verse notations which are present in our modern Bibles:

“There was a certain rich man who was clothed in purple and fine linen and fared sumptuously every day. But there was a certain beggar named Lazarus, full of sores, who was laid at his gate, desiring to be fed with the crumbs which fell from the rich man’s table. Moreover the dogs came and licked his sores.

So it was that the beggar died, and was carried by the angels to Abraham’s bosom. The rich man also died and was buried. And being in torments in Hades, he lifted up his eyes and saw Abraham afar off, and Lazarus in his bosom.

“Then he cried and said, ‘Father Abraham, have mercy on me, and send Lazarus that he may dip the tip of his finger in water and cool my tongue; for I am tormented in this flame.’ But Abraham said, ‘Son, remember that in your lifetime you received your good things, and likewise Lazarus evil things; but now he is comforted and you are tormented. And besides all this, between us and you there is a great gulf fixed, so that those who want to pass from here to you cannot, nor can those from there pass to us.’

“Then he said, ‘I beg you therefore, father, that you would send him to my father’s house, for I have five brothers, that he may testify to them, lest they also come to this place of torment.’ Abraham said to him, ‘They have Moses and the prophets; let them hear them.’ And he said, ‘No, father Abraham; but if one goes to them from the dead, they will repent.’ But he said to him, ‘If they do not hear Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded though one rise from the dead.’”

Then He said to the disciples, “It is impossible that no offenses should come, but woe to him through whom they do come! It would be better for him if a millstone were hung around his neck, and he were thrown into the sea, than that he should offend one of these little ones.

Jesus is saying that it is certain that offenses against people will happen, but it will be woe/misery to the sinful person through/from whom these offenses come to other people, and this is why the rich man is in hell.

He was the cause or one of the causes of his own brothers’ downfall and if they end up in hell, then he will have to suffer more for leading them astray. This is why he wants his brothers to repent. If they are condemned as a result of his influence in their lives, then his own sufferings will increase as punishment for his own part in their condemnation.

We will have to account for even every idle word that we speak. Matthew 12:36

This is why Jesus states:

Luke 13:23-27
Then one said to Him, “Lord, are there few who are saved?”
And He said to them, 24 “Strive to enter through the narrow gate, for many, I say to you, will seek to enter and will not be able. 25 When once the Master of the house has risen up and shut the door, and you begin to stand outside and knock at the door, saying, ‘Lord, Lord, open for us,’ and He will answer and say to you, ‘I do not know you, where you are from,’ 26 then you will begin to say, ‘We ate and drank in Your presence, and You taught in our streets.’ 27 But He will say, ‘I tell you I do not know you, where you are from. Depart from Me, all you workers of iniquity.’

Matthew 7:13-14
Enter by the narrow gate; for wide is the gate and broad is the way that leads to destruction, and there are many who go in by it. 14 Because narrow is the gate and difficult is the way which leads to life, and there are few who find it.

The rich man entered the wide gate. He is not saved.
 
Rich man in hell seeming to show compassion for his brothers:

It’s in the Dialogue of Saint Catherine of Siena. Our Lord told St. Catherine:

…[the pains of the eternally lost] always increase, especially the pains of those who have been the cause of damnation to others, as that rich man, who was damned, demonstrated to you when he begged the favor that Lazarus might go to his brothers, who were in the world, to tell them of his pains.

This, certainly, he did not do out of love or compassion for his brothers, for he was deprived of love and could not desire good, either for My honor or their salvation, because, as I have already told you, the damned souls cannot do any good to their neighbor…But why then did he do it? He did it because he was the eldest, and had nourished them up in the same miseries in which he had lived, so that he was the cause of their damnation, and he saw pain increased to himself, on account of their damnation when they should arrive in torment together with him…

So this text actually is demonstrating the danger of giving bad example to others during your life. Interestingly, the story comes at the end of chapter 16 of the Gospel of Luke. The first line of chapter 17 is: "He said to his disciples, ‘Things that cause sin will inevitably occur, but woe to the person through whom they come.’ " It seems this verse in Luke 17 is the main moral of the story.

The Dialogue of Saint Catherine of Siena*** is available online at: ccel.org/ccel/catherine/dialog.txt

It is extremely difficult for the rich to enter eternal life. They use their wealth mostly for “themselves” instead of sharing it with “other persons” who do not have the “basics” so the rich are not loving their neighbors as themselves. The Royal Law is that we must love God with our whole hearts, minds, souls, and strengths and our neighbors as ourselves. We are judged by the Royal Law when we die. I cannot possibly love my neighbor as myself if I keep most of my wealth (which is God’s gift to me) for myself. James 2:8-9

Luke 3:9-11
And even now the ax is laid to the root of the trees. Therefore every tree which does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire.” 10 So the people asked him, saying, “What shall we do then?” 11 He answered and said to them, “He who has two tunics, let him give to him who has none; and he who has food, let him do likewise.”

James 5:1-4
Come now, you rich, weep and howl for your miseries that are coming upon you! 2 Your riches are corrupted, and your garments are moth-eaten. 3 Your gold and silver are corroded, and their corrosion will be a witness against you and will eat your flesh like fire. You have heaped up treasure in the last days. 4 Indeed the wages of the laborers who mowed your fields, which you kept back by fraud, cry out; and the cries of the reapers have reached the ears of the Lord of Sabaoth. 5 You have lived on the earth in pleasure and luxury; you have fattened your hearts as in a day of slaughter. 6 You have condemned, you have murdered the just; he does not resist you.

1 Timothy 6:9
But those who desire to be rich fall into temptation and a snare, and into many foolish and harmful lusts which drown men in destruction and perdition.

The rich man is in hell. He is not in purgatory.
Is this the same “Saint Catherine of Siena” who professed that the Blessed Virgin Mary was NOT immaculately conceived? (In Fr. Benedict Groeschel’s book, “A Still, Small Voice”, he talks about St. Catherine of Siena’s declaration that the Virgin Mary herself revealed to the Saint that she was not immaculately conceived.) If so, her creditability with regards to scripture and biblical events is already questionable because the Catholic Church OFFICIALLY teaches that Mary WAS immaculately conceived.

As we discussed previously, the demons feel their suffering increase for every soul that they cause to be damned to hell but they still desire that even though it increases their own suffering. So, the argument that the Rich Man didn’t want his brothers to join him because it would increase his own suffering doesn’t hold any water because those in hell would prefer others joining them even if it increased their own suffering. * scripturecatholic.com/purgatory.html …Luke 16:19-31 - in this story, we see that the dead rich man is suffering but still feels compassion for his brothers and wants to warn them of his place of suffering. But there is no suffering in heaven or compassion in hell because compassion is a grace from God and those in hell are deprived from God’s graces for all eternity. So where is the rich man? He is in purgatory.
 
This is one of those common knowledge things that one can hardly believe is necessary to prove! However today, people are poorly catechized. 🤷

[bibledrb]Luke 16:26[/bibledrb]

It can not be purgatory, as we know that souls can definitely pass from purgatory to heaven.
We also know that compassion is a grace from God and those in hell are forever cut off from God’s graces. So, he can not be in hell either.
 
I agree with you. 👍
**
There were no chapter or verse notations in the original manuscript** as it was simply one long manuscript. It is always a good idea to look at the previous chapter and also at the following chapter in order to see if more information is required in order to understand the context of the chapter that a person is reading in our modern Bibles.

The original story without the chapter and verse notations which are present in our modern Bibles:

“There was a certain rich man who was clothed in purple and fine linen and fared sumptuously every day. But there was a certain beggar named Lazarus, full of sores, who was laid at his gate, desiring to be fed with the crumbs which fell from the rich man’s table. Moreover the dogs came and licked his sores.

So it was that the beggar died, and was carried by the angels to Abraham’s bosom. The rich man also died and was buried. And being in torments in Hades, he lifted up his eyes and saw Abraham afar off, and Lazarus in his bosom.

“Then he cried and said, ‘Father Abraham, have mercy on me, and send Lazarus that he may dip the tip of his finger in water and cool my tongue; for I am tormented in this flame.’ But Abraham said, ‘Son, remember that in your lifetime you received your good things, and likewise Lazarus evil things; but now he is comforted and you are tormented. And besides all this, between us and you there is a great gulf fixed, so that those who want to pass from here to you cannot, nor can those from there pass to us.’

“Then he said, ‘I beg you therefore, father, that you would send him to my father’s house, for I have five brothers, that he may testify to them, lest they also come to this place of torment.’ Abraham said to him, ‘They have Moses and the prophets; let them hear them.’ And he said, ‘No, father Abraham; but if one goes to them from the dead, they will repent.’ But he said to him, ‘If they do not hear Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded though one rise from the dead.’”

Then He said to the disciples, “It is impossible that no offenses should come, but woe to him through whom they do come! It would be better for him if a millstone were hung around his neck, and he were thrown into the sea, than that he should offend one of these little ones.

Jesus is saying that it is certain that offenses against people will happen, but it will be woe/misery to the sinful person through/from whom these offenses come to other people, and this is why the rich man is in hell.

He was the cause or one of the causes of his own brothers’ downfall and if they end up in hell, then he will have to suffer more for leading them astray. This is why he wants his brothers to repent. If they are condemned as a result of his influence in their lives, then his own sufferings will increase as punishment for his own part in their condemnation.

We will have to account for even every idle word that we speak. Matthew 12:36

This is why Jesus states:

Luke 13:23-27
Then one said to Him, “Lord, are there few who are saved?”
And He said to them, 24 “Strive to enter through the narrow gate, for many, I say to you, will seek to enter and will not be able. 25 When once the Master of the house has risen up and shut the door, and you begin to stand outside and knock at the door, saying, ‘Lord, Lord, open for us,’ and He will answer and say to you, ‘I do not know you, where you are from,’ 26 then you will begin to say, ‘We ate and drank in Your presence, and You taught in our streets.’ 27 But He will say, ‘I tell you I do not know you, where you are from. Depart from Me, all you workers of iniquity.’

Matthew 7:13-14
Enter by the narrow gate; for wide is the gate and broad is the way that leads to destruction, and there are many who go in by it. 14 Because narrow is the gate and difficult is the way which leads to life, and there are few who find it.

The rich man entered the wide gate. He is not saved.
How do we know that the Rich Man caused his brothers’ downfall? We don’t! If his brothers are also rich, then it is more likely that they came from a rich family and they all learned this behavior from their parents. In which case, if his brothers also ended up in hell, it would not have been his fault and he would have felt no extra suffering. So, that blows that theory out of the water. And even though it would cause him no further suffering if they ended up with him nor would he get any benefit if they were saved, he still didn’t want them there – showing that he had compassion for them which is a grace from God and those in hell are forever cut off from God’s graces. Therefore, he was not in hell but in purgatory.
 
It is unfortanate that so many disregard certian passages while taking so much stock in others.

Purgatory is a fable dear readers.

Romans 6:23
For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.

even the smallest of sins, is punishable by death. Death is forever. Death is not purgatory, Death is the punishment for sin.

If you have a little bit of sin you never conquered upon your death, well then unless you are saved, you are going to die and be exterminated forever and ever.

The miracle of salvation, is the blood of Christ washes ALLL SIN away. In other words, your spotty black ugly sin will be made pure and white, because Christ took it upon himself, all of it, and when you become a child of God, you are no longer under the wrath of God.

When you become saved however, you are given a new resurrected soul, a living soul. However we still have a mortal body that lusts for sin. we will sin in our lives, it is a fact, our bodies are sin, and our bodies lust for sin. This does not mean you can go to mass and have the sin cleaned, that is work, this doesnt mean you can go to confession, that is work, this means that if you are saved child of God, then Christ took all of your sin PAST PRESENT AND FUTURE, considering God knows the beginning from the end, He is the alpha and omega, All of your sin is ACCOUNTED FOR.

If you die a child of God, then you go to heaven, regardless of the sin you commit because of your body. those sins are still covered by the blood of Christ.

if you die unsaved, then the punishment for sin is death. Death is forever. That is the judgment. The law of God judges you,. The bible, which is the word of God, is the law of God, and the law of God is a judgment upon you. If you die unsaved your dead.

if you die saved, then any sin you may have is still covered by the blood of Christ.

Purgatory is a fable. STOP TRYING TO MAKE A VERSE FIT YOUR OWN DOCTRINE. Your doctrin is contrary to bible doctrine if you can twist a verse to fit a teaching you hold dear to your heart. You must allow yourself to be corrected and instructed by the word of God.

this means that you change your doctrine, you don’t twist bible doctrine to support you.

that is why we have hermenuetics.

That the word is spoken in parables.
and to compare scripture to scripture. These are spelled out in the bible, if you dont recognize these as instrucions from the bible to define the bible, then you will never come to truth will you. your doctrine will always be just a little off considering you dont compare scripture to scripture and find harmony, considering you think only the four gospels are spoken in parables and not the bible as a whole

For the word of God is the bible, and the word became flesh and dwelt among us. The bible and Jesus are the same word, they are identified with each other.
 
It is unfortanate that so many disregard certian passages while taking so much stock in others.

Purgatory is a fable dear readers.
At least the post can’t go downhill any further . . .
Romans 6:23
For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.
even the smallest of sins, is punishable by death. Death is forever. Death is not purgatory, Death is the punishment for sin.
We disregard certain passages?

1 John 5:16-17
If any one sees his brother committing what is not a mortal sin, he will ask, and God will give him life for those whose sin is not mortal. There is sin which is mortal; I do not say that one is to pray for that. All wrongdoing is sin, but there is sin which is not mortal.

When you say “Death is forever,” do you mean that hell is forever? Because I’ll agree with you there. Also, no one has said that death = purgatory because no one thinks that . . . so . . . that’s cleared up. 👍
If you have a little bit of sin you never conquered upon your death, well then unless you are saved, you are going to die and be exterminated forever and ever.
Why do the sinful “saved” people get to go to heaven? Especially when we know that sin cannot enter heaven. . . . [cf. **Rev 21:27]
The miracle of salvation, is the blood of Christ washes ALLL SIN away. In other words, your spotty black ugly sin will be made pure and white, because Christ took it upon himself, all of it, and when you become a child of God, you are no longer under the wrath of God.
How do you become a “child of God?” If all of our sin is automatically “made pure in white,” why do we need to confess our sins? Also, do you recognize the difference between sin and the punishment given for a particular sin?
When you become saved however, you are given a new resurrected soul, a living soul. However we still have a mortal body that lusts for sin. we will sin in our lives, it is a fact, our bodies are sin, and our bodies lust for sin.
I don’t know if you meant it in a literal sense, but FYI, our bodies are not sin itself . . . sin is evil and everything God creates is “very good” [cf. **Gen 1:31]. But you are correct in that we all have a tendency to sin, St. Paul and the Church call this “concupiscence.”
This does not mean you can go to mass and have the sin cleaned, that is work,
Going to Mass, receiving the Eucharist (and therefore sanctifying grace), is not a work. It is what Christ told us to do at the Last Supper. The sanctifying grace clears away venial sin, but if you receive the Eucharist while in a state of mortal sin, you bring down judgment upon yourself per 1 Cor 11:29.
this doesnt mean you can go to confession, that is work,
Christ Himself established the sacrament of Confession:

John 20:22-23
And when he had said this, he breathed on them, and said to them, “Receive the Holy Spirit. If you forgive the sins of any, they are forgiven; if you retain the sins of any, they are retained.”

This is pretty clear, Paul also talks of the sacrament of Confession:

2 Corinthians 2:10
And to whom you have pardoned any thing, I also. For, what I have pardoned, if I have pardoned any thing, for your sakes have I done it in the person of Christ.

2 Corinthians 5:18
All this is from God, who through Christ reconciled us to himself and gave us the ministry of reconciliation.

You can’t get much clearer than that! Absolution (i.e., when the priest forgives your sin) takes away the sin, but the temporal punishment remains, that is what penance and indulgences are for, to remove the temporal punishment due to sin.
this means that if you are saved child of God, then Christ took all of your sin PAST PRESENT AND FUTURE, considering God knows the beginning from the end, He is the alpha and omega, All of your sin is ACCOUNTED FOR.
So, as long as we’ve accepted Christ we can just go around sinning as much as we want right? Sin while the sinning’s good, huh? God’s got your back, He doesn’t care if you sin as long as you’ve accepted His Son as your Lord and Savior! 👍

:rolleyes:
If you die a child of God, then you go to heaven, regardless of the sin you commit because of your body. those sins are still covered by the blood of Christ.
Once again, how exactly do you become a “child of God?”

← continued in next post →
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top