Purgatory Question + 1 more

[BibleGirl02]

Hello,
how do Catholics percieve Matthew 20: 1-16? Doesn’t this completely overrule purgatory? And also, do Catholics believe that no one ascended into heaven until Jesus rose?
Thank you for your time!
-BibleGirl02-

 

[AlanFromWichita]

This is my opinion, not necessarily the views of scholars of the Church.

But then again, what do scholars know about the real kingdom? (Matt 11:25, Lk 10:21)

Purgatory is a process of cleansing from all the bondage that has been keeping our brains from functioning, any time after society starts to “teach” us. What they do is not teach, but train. There’s a world of difference.

This process can go on while we are still walking the earth, and I hope for everyone to be lucky enough to experience it. It can be scary. It took me 11 years, a severe psychotic illness, and losing a lucrative career and instead raised my 6 children in poverty, but I got here and it was all worth it. Reference: Dark Night of the Soul, from a doctor of the Church, St. John of the Cross.

Where’s here? The kingdom. Not Jesus’s kingdom, but mine. You have your own, but God needs to open your eyes to it before you can see it, by helping you become more like the beatitudes and childlike and non-dualistic and self-effaced to the point where He can restructure your ways of thinking and viewing things. This opens your faith eyes, and faith then turns to sight and the world – with all of its problems – is suddenly a wonderland. Same planet, change in the way to view things and think about them, and one is an anxiety, fear, and greed driven hell while the other is a beautiful garden with all sorts of interesting forms of beauty.

Alan

 

[Gorgias]

Hello,
how do Catholics percieve Matthew 20: 1-16? Doesn’t this completely overrule purgatory?

No, it doesn’t. This parable refutes the notion the Jews had that, as God’s only chosen people, they were inherently “worth more”. Jesus is demonstrating that it doesn’t matter when God calls you – whether you’re a Jew in slavery in Egypt, or a 1st century Palestinian, or a 1st century Samaritan, (or a 21st century American): if you respond to the call, you too may receive the same reward – salvation!

Now, how would you say that this parable provides an argument against purgatory?

And also, do Catholics believe that no one ascended into heaven until Jesus rose?

Certainly, no person was in heaven before Jesus’ death. The Bible also tells us that he went to “preach to the spirits in prison” after his death; that is, like all who died before him, he went to Sheol (the abode of the dead). Unlike all who preceded him, though, Jesus rose from the dead and ascended to heaven (and the righteous in ‘prison’ ascended to heaven with him).

 

[Rich_C]

Hello,
how do Catholics percieve Matthew 20: 1-16? Doesn’t this completely overrule purgatory? And also, do Catholics believe that no one ascended into heaven until Jesus rose?
Thank you for your time!
-BibleGirl02-

There are several places in scripture that touch on purgatory but could you explain how this one does? I’ve always heard commentary on this passage referring to conversion, and how salvation is gift from God that even deathbed converts may attain.

 

[Ubenedictus]

Hello,
how do Catholics percieve Matthew 20: 1-16? Doesn’t this completely overrule purgatory? And also, do Catholics believe that no one ascended into heaven until Jesus rose?

becase Jesus said ‘no on has gone up to heaven but the son of man…’’
ubenedictus

 

[po18guy]

At the risk of sounding like a recording, please consider getting a copy of Catholicism for Dummies… It will answer many of your questions about the Catholic faith with straight, easily understood answers.

I see no direct connection at all to purgatory in these verses. But, as to the concept of a cleansing of residual sin after death, we know that nothing unclean enters God’s Kingdom. We know that we die with some level of sin on our souls - through our own fault. That sin must be cleansed before we may enter. Read 1 Corinthians 3:11-15. Please consider what Paul is speaking of: Salvation on the day of judgment, but only as though you are escaping through fire. Think of that. The refiner’s fire, where impurities are removed from gold.

Let us consider the case of the worlds best neurosurgeon. Fully trained, experienced, and practiced in his vocation. Scheduled to operate on a given day. Yet, doctor cannot enter the purity of the operating room until being scrubbed and cleansed of impurity. No one may simply walk in, no matter how qualified they otherwise are. There is a process that they must go through, even though they are scheduled to enter the operating room. This is due to physical impurity, but spiritual impurity applies in the spiritual realm of God’s Kingdom.

As to the Kingdom of Heaven, Jesus opened the gates. However, God is not limited in this regard. Yet, Jesus descended to the dead on Good Friday and preached the Gospel to the dead, whose spirits were in prison. This is ministry. You cannot minister to those who are already damned - they have no hope. Yet, the souls who heard the Gospel were not in Heaven, either. So, where, or what is this “prison”?

Compare this to the parable that Jesus taught in Luke 12:58-59. He again speaks of a debt, or grievance, and unless you are reconciled, you will be in prison until you have paid your debt. Yet, even those who owe a debt eventually get out of prison. Jesus is not a lawyer - he is not giving legal advice, but rather spiritual advice so that we may stay out of spiritual prison.