Purgatory Question

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Okay, if God is asking us to be more merciful and join in his work then just what is his work in purgatory? Is it merely to administer a series of punishments to satisfy offended justice or is it to bring about the conversion of sinners?

And. If it merely to satisfy justice does that mean I get to take my vengeance out on those who wrong me to satisfy my sense of wounded justice?

But if purgatory is about conversion and rehab then it is more about mercy than punishment.

Although differentiated, Purgatory – the Church Suffering , the Church Militant – (we ,Christian pilgrims on earth) , and the Church Triumphant – (all those in Heaven), are all interconnected in the Communion of Saints.

Okay, if God is asking us to be more merciful and join in his work then just what is his work in purgatory? Is it merely to administer a series of punishments to satisfy offended justice or is it to bring about the conversion of sinners? . . .

Hell deals with punishment. Purgatory deals with purification. When a soul sees itself in God’s light, unless it were perfect , it would understand in that same instant that its present state would be in need of purification before being eternally united with God in Heaven. Some of us can undergo this type of purification on earth. According to what St. Faustina and others have said , a soul goes willingly to Purgatory.

. . . And. If it merely to satisfy justice does that mean I get to take my vengeance out on those who wrong me to satisfy my sense of wounded justice? . . .

It wouldn’t appear so.

[Matt 6: 14-15] If you forgive others their transgressions, your heavenly Father will forgive you. But if you do not forgive others, neither will your Father forgive your transgressions.

You’ve given a really good example though.
If, at the end of their earthly life, someone had a desire to take vengeance on another who had wronged them, they would , in all likelihood need to be purified from that desire before entering Heaven. What you’re describing, is what we commonly call a* grudge*.

. . . But if purgatory is about conversion and rehab then it is more about mercy than punishment.

I don’t quite get this last one. Could you provide some quotes/links on anything the Church says literally about Purgatory being about conversion ? As I understand it (in my limited opinion) conversion applies to each of our earthly pilgrimages.

The souls in Purgatory undergo purification , but their hearts are already set on God and Heaven, and they are given the promise and the means (Purgatory) of attaining it.

Where you speak of Purgatory being more about mercy than punishment , I think you nail it. When considering what we are able to know partially about God’s attributes, He will always allow His justice to be swayed by His Mercy – and His Mercy is so great, neither you nor I, nor all of us could ever find a way to measure it – let alone describe it.

From St. Faustina’s Diary (highlights mine):

On that day all the divine floodgates through which graces flow are opened. Let no soul fear to draw near to Me, even though its sins be as scarlet.** My mercy is so great that no mind, be it of man or of angel, will be able to fathom it throughout all eternity.** Everything that exists has come forth from the very depths of My most tender mercy. Every soul in its relation to Me will contemplate My love and mercy throughout eternity. The Feast of Mercy emerged from My very depths of tenderness. It is My desire that it be solemnly celebrated on the first Sunday after Easter. Mankind will not have peace until it turns to the Fount of My Mercy (Diary 699)

Sin has a double consequence: the guilt incurred by the act , and the temporal punishment due. Vico already gave us this answer in post # 4. Maybe it would be helpful to see it again with a little more context concerning indulgences- which is the remission of the temporal punishment due to sins whose guilt is already forgiven ( in the next post . . .

. . . continued

 

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. . . continuation)

Catechism of the Catholic Church
PART TWO: THE CELEBRATION OF THE CHRISTIAN MYSTERY
SECTION TWO THE SEVEN SACRAMENTS OF THE CHURCH
CHAPTER TWO THE SACRAMENTS OF HEALING
Article 4 THE SACRAMENT OF PENANCE AND RECONCILIATION
X. Indulgences

X. Indulgences

1471 The doctrine and practice of indulgences in the Church are closely linked to the effects of the sacrament of Penance.

What is an indulgence?

"An indulgence is a remission before God of the temporal punishment due to sins whose guilt has already been forgiven, which the faithful Christian who is duly disposed gains under certain prescribed conditions through the action of the Church which, as the minister of redemption, dispenses and applies with authority the treasury of the satisfactions of Christ and the saints."81
"An indulgence is partial or plenary according as it removes either part or all of the temporal punishment due to sin."82 Indulgences may be applied to the living or the dead.

The punishments of sin

1472 To understand this doctrine and practice of the Church, it is necessary to understand that sin has a double consequence. Grave sin deprives us of communion with God and therefore makes us incapable of eternal life, the privation of which is called the “eternal punishment” of sin. On the other hand every sin, even venial, entails an unhealthy attachment to creatures, which must be purified either here on earth, or after death in the state called Purgatory. This purification frees one from what is called the “temporal punishment” of sin. These two punishments must not be conceived of as a kind of vengeance inflicted by God from without, but as following from the very nature of sin. A conversion which proceeds from a fervent charity can attain the complete purification of the sinner in such a way that no punishment would remain.83

1473 The forgiveness of sin and restoration of communion with God entail the remission of the eternal punishment of sin, but temporal punishment of sin remains. While patiently bearing sufferings and trials of all kinds and, when the day comes, serenely facing death, the Christian must strive to accept this temporal punishment of sin as a grace. He should strive by works of mercy and charity, as well as by prayer and the various practices of penance, to put off completely the “old man” and to put on the "new man."84

In the Communion of Saints

1474 The Christian who seeks to purify himself of his sin and to become holy with the help of God’s grace is not alone. "The life of each of God’s children is joined in Christ and through Christ in a wonderful way to the life of all the other Christian brethren in the supernatural unity of the Mystical Body of Christ, as in a single mystical person."85

1475 In the communion of saints, "a perennial link of charity exists between the faithful who have already reached their heavenly home, those who are expiating their sins in purgatory and those who are still pilgrims on earth. between them there is, too, an abundant exchange of all good things."86 In this wonderful exchange, the holiness of one profits others, well beyond the harm that the sin of one could cause others. Thus recourse to the communion of saints lets the contrite sinner be more promptly and efficaciously purified of the punishments for sin.

1476 We also call these spiritual goods of the communion of saints the Church’s treasury, which is "not the sum total of the material goods which have accumulated during the course of the centuries. On the contrary the ‘treasury of the Church’ is the infinite value, which can never be exhausted, which Christ’s merits have before God. They were offered so that the whole of mankind could be set free from sin and attain communion with the Father. In Christ, the Redeemer himself, the satisfactions and merits of his Redemption exist and find their effficacy."87

1477 "This treasury includes as well the prayers and good works of the Blessed Virgin Mary. They are truly immense, unfathomable, and even pristine in their value before God. In the treasury, too, are the prayers and good works of all the saints, all those who have followed in the footsteps of Christ the Lord and by his grace have made their lives holy and carried out the mission the Father entrusted to them. In this way they attained their own salvation and at the same time cooperated in saving their brothers in the unity of the Mystical Body."88

Obtaining indulgence from God through the Church . . .

Anyone interested in learning more about obtaining indulgences, can find the continuation at this link : vatican.va/archive/ENG0015/_P4G.HTM

 

[ericc]

Which is more true

A., We pray for those in purgatory that God will release them out of prison sooner. In other words we are asking God to be more merciful?

Or

B… We pray for those in Purgatory so that they may come to accept God’s love so that they can know God’s mercy.

The first one seems to be praying for God to be more merciful. But are we more merciful than God? That doesn’t make sense to me. The second one seems to make more sense.

So how does our prayers help those in purgatory? Is it just a mystery how it works?

Since Purgatory is the place where we cleaned up before we get to heaven, my vote goes to A. Nothing unclean can get to heaven so those folks there will need a fire bath for a thorough cleansing. However, justice demands proportionate punishment for un-confessed non-mortal sins. If prayers do not lessen the punishment, then perhaps it stokes the fire even hotter so that you can get clean faster. Perhaps faster means higher pain levels but you do get out earlier. I am just speculating though.