Purgatory

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that I need nothing further for my entry into heaven and everlasting life with my Savior than the belief that Jesus did it all and paid the final debt demanded by our loving Father.
Do you believe you must you do the will of the Father in heaven? Must you love God? …Just trying to determine which version of Protestantism you tend to gravitate to.

We believe that you must love and and do His will. All of this is done through His grace alone. It’s not earned. Without Him we can do nothing.
It is my prayer and hope that those who follow and encourage a belief in a further purification after death, that somehow Jesus failed in His mission for our eternal salvation, would yield to the promptings of the Holy Spirit and the truth that lies only within the pages of scripture.
We believe that purification after death is part of the finished work of Christ. It’s not in any way separate from His saving work on the cross.

We believe that the graces He earned through His death on the cross are applied to our souls to actually make us holy, pure, and ultimately perfect in Him.

Luther talked about justification like it was snow covering a piece of dung. The Catholic perspective is that we are better than dung, but far from perfect, and that instead of being covered by snow, that God will turn us to gold through His fiery love - the graces He gives.

We believe we are saved, are being saved, and will be saved if we remain in His love. This is the idea of purgatory.
 
Do you believe you must you do the will of the Father in heaven? Must you love God? …Just trying to determine which version of Protestantism you tend to gravitate to.
I love God because He first loved me. He has shown me His love in many ways, the first and foremost is that He allowed His only begotten son to die for me. And as long as there is breath in my body, I will thank Him every day for His perfect plan of salvation, for Jesus.

BTW, you will be wasting your time if you try to see “which version of protestantism” I’m associated with. I distinctly abhor denominational labels and when asked my “religious affiliation” will answer I am a christian. I do not belong to any denomination nor do I see the need to do so.
 
I love God because He first loved me. He has shown me His love in many ways, the first and foremost is that He allowed His only begotten son to die for me. And as long as there is breath in my body, I will thank Him every day for His perfect plan of salvation, for Jesus.
God bless you my sibling in Christ… We are in full agreement on this point. 🙂
BTW, you will be wasting your time if you try to see “which version of protestantism” I’m associated with. I distinctly abhor denominational labels and when asked my “religious affiliation” will answer I am a christian. I do not belong to any denomination nor do I see the need to do so.
To many Protestants, standing up for the specifics of what they believe, and their denominational affiliation is not a waste of time. That is why I was curious.

We can all pray that we will achieve the unity Christ prayed for: that His Church would be perfectly one. I find your perspective well-intentioned. Your desire is to be united in the love of our Lord, and not divided is righteous and holy. That’s admirable!

I also pray that as Christians we will all come to the fullness of the truth so that the world might believe.

I am glad you are here sharing your thoughts with us.

May His peace be with you.
 
Purgatory
If sin still clings to Christians (Heb 12:1), but there is no sin in heaven (Rev. 21:27), there must be a purification that takes place after one’s death and before one enters heaven - even if “in the blink of an eye,”.
Paul mentions this in 1 Cor. 3:13–15: “Each man’s work… will be revealed with fire, which will test what sort of work each one has done. If the work… survives, he will receive a reward. If any man’s work is burned up, he will suffer loss, though he himself will be saved, but only as through fire.”

Paul’s thought calls to mind the image of God as the refiner’s fire and fuller’s soap mentioned in Malachi 3:2. The fuller’s soap was lye or alkaline salt that removed stains from clothing. A refiner’s fire was an oven of intense heat where precious metals were placed in order to purify them of their corrosion and dross. Similarly, purgatory is when a soul is immersed into the fire of God’s love and lifted out of the residue of its imperfections.

Prayers for the dead pre-date Christianity. In the Greek Old Testament, Judah Maccabee and his companions pray for the souls of departed soldiers: “It was a holy and pious thought. …he made atonement for the dead, that they might be delivered from their sin” (2 Macc. 12:45). While Protestants do not accept this as an inspired book, it is worthwhile to point out that even today Jews have a prayer called the kaddish that is offered for the purification of the deceased.

Praying for the dead is also recorded throughout ancient Christian documents, (Acts of Paul and Thecla, and in the writings of Abercius, Perpetua, Tertullian, Cyril of Jerusalem, Epiphanius of Salamis, John Chrysostom, and Augustine) All of these men wrote between A.D. 160 and 421, and so prayers for the souls in purgatory can hardly be considered a medieval invention. Actually, refusing to pray for the dead is a relatively new idea in terms of Judaeo Christianity.

We know that we suffer stains of sin even after Baptism, such as guilt, upset, pain ect (CF Jas 5:16). We also know that seeing the Ulimate Love and Goodness is agony for us sinners (Isa 6:5.) And we also know that these are incompatible with Heaven (Rev 21:27.) Therefore we must be purified first; it is all a part of God’s promise made through Paul, “that he who began a good work in you will bring it to completion at the day of Jesus Christ” (Phil 1:6), even if it should be “as through fire” (1 Cor. 3:15).

Some Protestants make the mistake that Sanctification is a quick wipe at Baptism via Christ’s Cross but, while this is essencially true, we are still sinners and Scripture refers to sanctification as a thing of the past (1 Cor. 6:11), present (1 Thess. 4:3), and future (1 Thess. 5:23) in the Christian life.

Purgatory is not a place for those bad Catholics who didn’t finish working their way to heaven while on earth. “For by grace you have been saved by faith” (Eph. 2:8–9). The purification that takes place in purgatory is purely a work of God’s grace, since there is no chance for merit after death, and the judgment of each individual is based solely upon their earthly life. But regardless of where Christ purifies men, it is precisely because his sacrifice was sufficient that each believer can be perfected. Christ’s sacrifice is not lessened by the fact that God’s work of perfecting his children is a process that often involves suffering and even temporal punishment. While “for the moment all discipline seems painful rather than pleasant” (Heb 12:11), it is all a part of God’s promise made through Paul, “that he who began a good work in you will bring it to completion at the day of Jesus Christ” (Phil 1:6), even if it should be “as through fire” (1 Cor. 3:15).

Some Christians maintain that all temporal punishments for sin are taken away if the person has repented. But the Bible indicates that although God takes away the eternal punishment, some temporal punishments may remain. In the Old Testament, God forgave David, but still took the life of his son (2 Sam. 12:13–14). In the New Testament, Christ reiterates this principle, “Make friends quickly with your accuser, while you are going with him to court, lest… you be put in prison; truly, I say to you, you will never get out till you have paid the last penny” (Matt. 5:25–26). It can also be mentioned that Christian women still experience the temporal punishment of birthpangs (Gen. 3:16) and we all die because of damage of Sin, even though Christ paid the infinite debt of man’s original sin (Rom. 5:12–21).

Thus the presence of suffering does not detract from Christ’s sacrifice in fact, there is only one mention in all of Scripture of something “lacking in Christ’s afflictions,” and that missing link is the suffering of his mystical body, the Church (Col. 1:24) which tells us that it is His Church that must still be purified in “afflications similar to Christ’s.”

Scripture refers to God as “Love” (1Jn 4:8 ) but also as the “Consuming Fire” (Deu 4:24, Heb 12:29) this means that we must be made into His Perfected Love “through Fire” because “he who does not Love cannot love God” (CF 1Jn 4:20.)

[Note “Fire” need not be taken literally. The Infallible Truth behind it refers to Purification (Mat 3:11, 1Pe 1:7, Rev 3:18 ) and some kind of pain (Rev 14:10, Rev 16:8 )]

Jesus said: “Whoever speaks against the Holy Spirit will not be forgiven, either in this age or in the age to come.” (Mat 12:32) - what do you think He meant by “this age OR THE NEXT”? How could anyone be forgiven in the next world? Sin cannot approach Heaven (Rev 21:27) so in order to be “forgiven” in the “next world” there must be some state of concience which follows this world but precedes Heaven which involved purification (“forgiveness.”)

----- This Essay on Purgatory is largely taken and edited from Catholic.com with some ideas of my own mixed it
 
I’ve read through this thread and have gain some wonderful insight relating to Purgatory… Thank you very much. 🙂

BUT… I have been thrown a bit of a loop by a friend and I am seeking more understanding of it.

As I was explaining my beliefs of Purgatory and backing them up with scripture, she called me out on Rev. 21:27. Her response to me was the following:

*"This was not talking about heaven, the passage said…"and nothing unclean shall enter IT…if you read verses about that verse you would see that it was talking about the new jerusalem which would be on earth…only those that are written in the lambs book of life will be able to enter this new city…remember in the o.t, the priests went about making sure that the people were ceremonially clean, the animals were clean…everything was cleansed, by sprinkling blood upon everything that was to be offered up the God, and on the people …which was a picture of what Christ did through dying on the cross…we were in other words, sprinkled upon with his blood, to make cleanse us…(figuratively speaking)…the blood of lambs and oxen could not ‘cleanse’ our conscience from sin…but Christ through his death, and the gift of the Holy Spirit, accomplished that…(Heb. 9 can pretty much break it down for you…and you would have to read the whole chapter…Im not one to only deal with ONE verse…I need to read the whole thing in it;s context, so if you are going to give me a verse only…give me the WHOLE chapter.)
And th greek word actually means to defile…or make CEREMONIALLY(levitically) unclean…as pertaining to priests and the O.T.

The new Jerusalem was a symbol of Christ’s bride…spotless…remember Jerusalem was suppose to show the other nations how to behave in regards to serving God…God refered to them as his Wife…but they did not…they defiled themselves by living like thier neighboring countries…so now John is saying, this New Jerusalem, would not be like that…as oppose to the Jerusalem of old, that had defile themselves.

Now as to the propensity to sin, may I recall that it was John who said that we have an advocate with the Father, the man Christ Jesus, who intercedes on our behalf, IF any man sins…(which is sin after receiving Christ)…

I still don;t see anything to support purgatory in Rev.
21:27…"*

I am at a lost and I am not sure what to think of this. What are your thoughts?
 
**I was also faced with explaining a few verses in relation to purgatory and I have to admit… I have been humbled by my knowledge of scripture. 😦

I hope non of you mind me coming to you to seek a few answers. I do try to understand it on my own, but there are moments like this that I feel as if I have been spun in circles.

So if any of you could help me understand better, I will be gratefully appreciative. 🙂

So… here is my next stumbling block, this is a response to me from a friend… right after I explained my position on purgatory…**

*"And while you are at it, please explain these few verses from the Bible:

My soul is also sore vexed: but thou, O LORD, how long? Return, O LORD, deliver my soul: oh save me for thy mercies’ sake. For in death there is no remembrance of thee: in the grave who shall give thee thanks? Psalms 6:3-5

The dead praise not the LORD, neither any that go down into silence.Psalms 115:17

His breath goeth forth, he returneth to his earth;in that very dayhis thoughts perish Psalms 146:4

For the living know that they shall die: but the dead know not any thing, neither have they any more a reward; for the memory of them is forgotten. Also their love, and their hatred, and their envy, is now perished; neither have they any more a portion for ever in any thing that is done under the sun. Ecclesiastes 9:5,6

, “For the grave cannot praise thee, death can not celebrate thee: they that go down into the pit cannot hope for thy truth. The living, the living, he shall praise thee, as I do this day: the father to the children shall make known thy truth.” Isaiah 38:18-19"*

**
Once again…thank you for any guidance. :)**
 
TFaith, I’m sorry but I cannot actually see where your friends post provides any evidence against the doctrine of Purgatory. Could you pin point and explain where they supposed have refuted it?

As for your next post; the point is is that the most ancient Jewish roots, such as Abraham’s children, had a very weak understanding of afterlife. They believed that they were good and dead, but they might have some very destitute state of existence remaining.
Later Hebrew philosophy developed an idea of “Sheol” (death) which is basically a place where the dead continue to exist (especially noteworthy is the necromancer who summoned the spirit of the prophet Samuel in the OT). The idea was that because human life (life=soul=spirit according to Hebrew thinkers) comes from the Breath of God (see Gen 1), it could never just snuff out after death.

They believed that good works and obedience to the law brought long life and riches you see; because there will be no reward for a good life after death.

Even the Hebrew Philosophers knew that because of our sin, we must ALL DIE.

But God’s People cried out to Him, to save them from the Abyss. And He sent His Son to save them and us from the sting of death. Hopefully you know the story 😉

It hasn’t really got much to do with the idea of Purgatory except that it reflects the fact that we must all die and suffer both in this life and after it for our sins.
 
My soul is also sore vexed: but thou, O LORD, how long? Return, O LORD, deliver my soul: oh save me for thy mercies’ sake. For in death there is no remembrance of thee: in the grave who shall give thee thanks? Psalms 6:3-5

The dead praise not the LORD, neither any that go down into silence.Psalms 115:17

His breath goeth forth, he returneth to his earth;in that very dayhis thoughts perish Psalms 146:4

For the living know that they shall die: but the dead know not any thing, neither have they any more a reward; for the memory of them is forgotten. Also their love, and their hatred, and their envy, is now perished; neither have they any more a portion for ever in any thing that is done under the sun. Ecclesiastes 9:5,6

, “For the grave cannot praise thee, death can not celebrate thee: they that go down into the pit cannot hope for thy truth. The living, the living, he shall praise thee, as I do this day: the father to the children shall make known thy truth.” Isaiah 38:18-19"
**
Once again…thank you for any guidance. :)**

Hi TFaith, none of these address Purgatory, or anything about our perfection at death. It is talking about whether the dead “praise” Christ, which has nothing to do with Purgatory. He is accidentally using the Protestant apologetics vs. praying to saints, not the one on Purgatory! 😛

For probably all of the verses, remember, the “dead” can either mean physically deceased from earth, or those who are “dead” to Christ. See the Isaiah 38 verse specifically is talking about those who are dead and in the “pit.” One must be careful in interpreting, say, your Psalm 115 quote that anyone who is dead can no longer praise God…not even people in heaven! How silly is that!

I would refer him to the following distinguishing the two types of “death”:

Revelation 20:14 And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.

Revelation 21:8 But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death.

p.s. That verse in Ecclesiastes is not intended to be a doctrinal thought. The author of Ecclesiastes bounces around a bunch of different thoughts throughout the book while philosophizing on life. The book even opens with the cry, “Utterly meaningless! Everything is meaningless.” In fact, Paul condemns the thought in Eccles 9:7-9 in 1 Cor 15:32.
 
TFaith, I’m sorry but I cannot actually see where your friends post provides any evidence against the doctrine of Purgatory. Could you pin point and explain where they supposed have refuted it?
My friend was relating what I said to Rev21:27 but nothing unclean will enter it, nor any[one] who does abonimable things or tells a lie.

**I used this quote to explain that you must be cleansed before entering heaven. I also related it to being a part of purgatory.

Am I wrong, is the purification not part of purgatory? And where does the “New Jerusalum” fit in? I was under the impression it meant heaven.

Then she continues on to say that we have already been cleansed for proclaiming our belief in Jesus Christ and for accepting him. This I already understand the answer for.
**
 
As for your next post; the point is is that the most ancient Jewish roots, such as Abraham’s children, had a very weak understanding of afterlife. They believed that they were good and dead, but they might have some very destitute state of existence remaining.
Later Hebrew philosophy developed an idea of “Sheol” (death) which is basically a place where the dead continue to exist (especially noteworthy is the necromancer who summoned the spirit of the prophet Samuel in the OT). The idea was that because human life (life=soul=spirit according to Hebrew thinkers) comes from the Breath of God (see Gen 1), it could never just snuff out after death.

They believed that good works and obedience to the law brought long life and riches you see; because there will be no reward for a good life after death.

Even the Hebrew Philosophers knew that because of our sin, we must ALL DIE.

But God’s People cried out to Him, to save them from the Abyss. And He sent His Son to save them and us from the sting of death. Hopefully you know the story 😉

It hasn’t really got much to do with the idea of Purgatory except that it reflects the fact that we must all die and suffer both in this life and after it for our sins.
**
Thank you for this response, it’s helping me a bit to make more sense of it. I do have a feeling I know where he is going with it… think he is implying that dead means to go to “sleep” … until the second comming of christ.

He’s probably trying to through me off! :rolleyes: **
 
Hi TFaith, none of these address Purgatory, or anything about our perfection at death. It is talking about whether the dead “praise” Christ, which has nothing to do with Purgatory. He is accidentally using the Protestant apologetics vs. praying to saints, not the one on Purgatory! 😛

For probably all of the verses, remember, the “dead” can either mean physically deceased from earth, or those who are “dead” to Christ. See the Isaiah 38 verse specifically is talking about those who are dead and in the “pit.” One must be careful in interpreting, say, your Psalm 115 quote that anyone who is dead can no longer praise God…not even people in heaven! How silly is that!

I would refer him to the following distinguishing the two types of “death”:

Revelation 20:14 And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.

Revelation 21:8 But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death.

p.s. That verse in Ecclesiastes is not intended to be a doctrinal thought. The author of Ecclesiastes bounces around a bunch of different thoughts throughout the book while philosophizing on life. The book even opens with the cry, “Utterly meaningless! Everything is meaningless.” In fact, Paul condemns the thought in Eccles 9:7-9 in 1 Cor 15:32.
**
Hello MarcoPolo. 🙂

As for referring to praising the saints… it makes more sense to me. I have forgone a lengthy discussion about this a long time ago with him, and this time I am purposely leaving that out of the discussion. I don’t believe I need to defend this belief to proove my belief of Purgatory. I have fortunately gotten to know him and realize that he likes to send in a curve ball to avoid what I have to say and to stay on point. I’ve already told him once in the discussion that I am not referring to this and don’t need to at this time.

It must be bothering him still and that was over a year ago! 😃

I am concerned about referring him to revelation. I’m not sure I understand what the second death is about and he has mentioned that revalations is about a vision to come, not what is there now. :confused:

I will however look further into this. If you could help me understand a bit more about those two qoutes, I would be grateful. 🙂

At the same time, I will definitely check out the verses of what Paul has to say.

Thank you. :)**
 
As for your next post; the point is is that the most ancient Jewish roots, such as Abraham’s children, had a very weak understanding of afterlife. They believed that they were good and dead, but they might have some very destitute state of existence remaining.
Later Hebrew philosophy developed an idea of “Sheol” (death) which is basically a place where the dead continue to exist (especially noteworthy is the necromancer who summoned the spirit of the prophet Samuel in the OT). The idea was that because human life (life=soul=spirit according to Hebrew thinkers) comes from the Breath of God (see Gen 1), it could never just snuff out after death.

They believed that good works and obedience to the law brought long life and riches you see; because there will be no reward for a good life after death.

Even the Hebrew Philosophers knew that because of our sin, we must ALL DIE.

But God’s People cried out to Him, to save them from the Abyss. And He sent His Son to save them and us from the sting of death. Hopefully you know the story 😉

It hasn’t really got much to do with the idea of Purgatory except that it reflects the fact that we must all die and suffer both in this life and after it for our sins.
**
Thank you for this response, it’s helping me a bit to make more sense of it. I do have a feeling I know where he is going with it… think he is implying that dead means to go to “sleep” … until the second comming of christ.

He’s probably trying to through me off! :rolleyes: **
 
he likes to send in a curve ball to avoid what I have to say and to stay on point. I’ve already told him once in the discussion that I am not referring to this and don’t need to at this time.
Excellent. Whenever someone constantly dodges what I try to offer, I also find it best to end the dialogue. Then I will try to preach the Gospel to that person by the example of my life, God willing, in such a way that words cannot do for him.
I am concerned about referring him to revelation. I’m not sure I understand what the second death is about and he has mentioned that revalations is about a vision to come, not what is there now. :confused:
He is incorrect that Revelation takes place all in the future. Some of it has already occurred…much of it actually. Here are a couple articles by Catholic Answers apologist Jimmy Akin, who I much, much respect!

The Structure of Revelation
The Flow of Time in Revelation

The second death means “hell.” Everyone dies bodily, that is the “first death.” Those passages in Revelation refer to the lake of fire as the second death: that means they died FIRST BODILY and SECOND SPIRITUALLY. Our goal is to avoid the second death! So when your friend uses passages that say those who are dead cannot praise God, he is misinterpreting the verse. Of course, those in heaven praise God forever! 🙂
 
My friend was relating what I said to Rev21:27 but nothing unclean will enter it, nor any[one] who does abonimable things or tells a lie.

**I used this quote to explain that you must be cleansed before entering heaven. I also related it to being a part of purgatory.

Am I wrong, is the purification not part of purgatory? And where does the “New Jerusalum” fit in? I was under the impression it meant heaven.

Then she continues on to say that we have already been cleansed for proclaiming our belief in Jesus Christ and for accepting him. This I already understand the answer for.
**
Thank you for this response, it’s helping me a bit to make more sense of it. I do have a feeling I know where he is going with it… think he is implying that dead means to go to “sleep” … until the second comming of christ.
He’s probably trying to through me off!
Yeah, the New Jerusalem is just Heaven but after the Resurrection. Your friend is right that we have been cleansed by Christ, sadly she forgot that we also get dirty again through post baptismal sin.
Also I agree that he probably is implying that dead means sleep, simply because Evangelicals who believe you are immaculate as soon as you believe in Christ do not like to think of them as ever dying since death is a result of sin.
 
Excellent. Whenever someone constantly dodges what I try to offer, I also find it best to end the dialogue. Then I will try to preach the Gospel to that person by the example of my life, God willing, in such a way that words cannot do for him.

He is incorrect that Revelation takes place all in the future. Some of it has already occurred…much of it actually. Here are a couple articles by Catholic Answers apologist Jimmy Akin, who I much, much respect!

The Structure of Revelation
The Flow of Time in Revelation

The second death means “hell.” Everyone dies bodily, that is the “first death.” Those passages in Revelation refer to the lake of fire as the second death: that means they died FIRST BODILY and SECOND SPIRITUALLY. Our goal is to avoid the second death! So when your friend uses passages that say those who are dead cannot praise God, he is misinterpreting the verse. Of course, those in heaven praise God forever! 🙂
**
Thank you very much for this info. I will go check out the links.

I have to admit, both of these friends (yep…2 of them, I am the oddball out) don’t give up. They cant answer my questions nor are they willing to except my answers…and are short on giving a good explanation. But instead turn it around and just say I am crazy. 🤷

Sometimes I wish I wasn’t the only catholic in the discussions… it gets real tiring. 😦
**
 
Yeah, the New Jerusalem is just Heaven but after the Resurrection. Your friend is right that we have been cleansed by Christ, sadly she forgot that we also get dirty again through post baptismal sin.
Also I agree that he probably is implying that dead means sleep, simply because Evangelicals who believe you are immaculate as soon as you believe in Christ do not like to think of them as ever dying since death is a result of sin.
**
Oh gosh…I have to share with you the response I got… I can’t believe what she thinks. To be honest, I am not sure if I will respond or not. It’s hard when you feel ganged up on, and if you saw the entire thread you would see what I mean… it’s a bit overwhelming now.
**
(the copy in black were my questions/statment to her & the purple was her response)

*There is nothing in here that states Purgatory doesn’t exist. …neither does it state that it exists!!

If the New Jerusalum isn’t in reference to “Heaven”, then what will it be? Will it be the next heaven?
It’s a city…some may even go to say, that it represents the New Church…Jerusalem was the example to other nations of how people should worship God.

And if it is the next heaven, why would we have to be purified to enter that one, but not the current one??

Does this mean God allows (name removed by moderator)urity in his Kingdom of Heaven, the Heaven that no one was allowed in until Jesus assended??Heaven forbid no.

All in all (in the entire context of what is stated) it speaks of a place of God. This place, no matter where it is or what it is called, will not allow another to enter unless they are purified…cleansed.
Well don’t you believe that the sacrifice of Jesus already did that?..hence the reason 1John talks about 'If any man(believers) sins, we have an advocate with the father." If the Jesus’s sacrifice is powerful enough to cleanse us while we are alive, why can;t it be powerful after death???
The catholic religion is caught up with ‘works’… you hav to be constantly doing something in order to feel worthy enought for God… hence the reason you still have a priest to confess your sins to…and maybe even purgatory…the Just shall live by faith…Christ Died once and for all for sin…hence…‘that whosoever believeth in him should not perish but have everlasting life.’
The only thing that could appease God’s wrath on man was the shed blood of His son, and he did it once and for all…so why on earth will I be going thru a ‘mini wrath’ in purgatory to cleanse my sins again, when Christ already did that…then that again means that I do NOT fully believe that Christ’s death was sufficient enough…his death is not powerful enough after MY death, so i need to go thru some purgatory to finish the work? I don;t agree with that.

Yes we will continue to sin, whether willingly or unwillingly, as long as we are in the flesh…and there is nothing wrong with asking for forgiveness…hence the reason ‘Flesh and blood will not enter the kingdom…’ This flesh we will put off, and a new body we will receive.
In a moment, we will be changed. I don’t believe there is a purgatory…
Why am I being punished again through a mini wrath of God, if Christ already paid that price for me?..To him Be all the glory.*
 
In a moment, we will be changed. I don’t believe there is a purgatory.
Ohhh…you have them right in the right spot! This is usually the response I get once they admit they cannot be prone to sin once in heaven…eventually, they concede there will be a change! If I were you, I’d highlight this line and just say something like, great! you agree there will be a change—that’s what purgatory is!

If they try to get into the time element with you, and insist it’s a “moment” (as if that makes a difference), you can just comfort them that they are in full agreement with our current Pope on the matter. Then you resolve the issue in peace! 🙂
 
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