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guanophore
Guest
Tweety is a Christian, she does not fall for JW stuff. She supports her husband, who is Catholic.
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guanophore
Guest
It is relevant to the topic to the extent that, when a believer understands fully and lives out the meaning of their baptism (a live worthy of the calling), one is purified in this life, leaving less for the next.
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guanophore
Guest
The Apostles did not separate the two. They only became separated by Modern American Evangelicals, who have been separated from the Apostolic faith.
Paul did believe in the forgiveness of sins through water baptism. He believed this because he did not separate the action of the Spirit from the action in the water. Why else would he give the testimony of his own baptism?
And now why are you waiting? Arise and be baptized, and wash away your sins, calling on the name of the Lord’" (Acts 22:12-16).
He did not baptize because God called him as a preacher. He preached, made converts, then those that travelled with him did the baptizing.
Let’s look at the whole passage, shall we?
13Is Christ divided? Was Paul crucified for you? Were you baptized intob the name of Paul? 14I am thankful that I did not baptize any of you except Crispus and Gaius, 15so no one can say that you were baptized into my name. 16(Yes, I also baptized the household of Stephanas; beyond that, I don’t remember if I baptized anyone else.) 17For Christ did not send me to baptize, but to preach the gospel—not with words of human wisdom, lest the cross of Christ be emptied of its power.
Paul is criticizing the factiousness of the believers. He did not want them to think that it mattered who did the baptism. Also, you notice that he DID baptize at least two of the disciples,as well as a whole household, and maybe others he does not remember. To say that he did not believe in baptism is disingenuous, don’t you think? Let us also consider a parallel passage:
Acts 18:8 Crispus, the leader of the synagogue, believed in the Lord with all his household, and many of the Corinthians when they heard were believing and being baptized.
You see here that believing and baptizing were together. The Apostles never separated them.
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1beleevr
Guest
You don’t believe that all sin was banished when Christ “became sin, who knew no sin,” and died on the Cross? All sins, past present and future; gone! And in Acts 8:37, Phillip tells the Ethiopian eunuch, that He must believe with all his heart, that Jesus Christ is the Son of God, before he is baptized! How about Colossians 1:14(KJV), which tells of our redemption and forgiveness of sin by the BLOOD OF CHRIST?
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Bill_Pick
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Thank You for your answer but its his opinon
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Javl
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Do I understand you to mean that no matter what we do we cannot sin? That sin is no longer present because Jesus abolished all sin for us?
PAX DOMINI
Shalom Aleichem
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guanophore
Guest
Fortunately Catholics do not need to “get out of any verse” the doctrines of the faith. Jesus taught His Apostles everything, and they to their successors. This happened before a word of the NT was ever written. Unlike modern children of the Reformers who are separated from the Apostolic faith, we follow the tradition of the Apostles to receive the implanted word with meekness, rather than attempting to extrapolate it from the pages of the writing, however holy.
Scripture tesifies to purgatory, but those who read the scriptures with anti-Catholic glasses will not see what is there. Just like the Mormons don’t see the Trinity.
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Javl
Guest
1beleevr:
My friend, believe me when I say that Purgatory does exist. There is documented proof, both religious and secular, as to its existence. I, myself, was skeptical until its existence was proven to me.
I know that it’s hard for you to accept, but think about it. Nothing impure can enter Heaven. Once we repent of our sins they are forgiven, but the stain of them is still there. This keeps us from entering Heaven ( Much like a criminal who repents of his crime but still has to serve time. ). Therefore, how is the stain removed, how are we made pure?
Purgatory is the only answer. God Bless.
PAX DOMINI
Shalom Aleichem
My friend, believe me when I say that Purgatory does exist. There is documented proof, both religious and secular, as to its existence. I, myself, was skeptical until its existence was proven to me.
I know that it’s hard for you to accept, but think about it. Nothing impure can enter Heaven. Once we repent of our sins they are forgiven, but the stain of them is still there. This keeps us from entering Heaven ( Much like a criminal who repents of his crime but still has to serve time. ). Therefore, how is the stain removed, how are we made pure?
Purgatory is the only answer. God Bless.
PAX DOMINI
Shalom Aleichem
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Bill_Pick
Guest
A+1beleevr:
My friend, believe me when I say that Purgatory does exist. There is documented proof, both religious and secular, as to its existence. I, myself, was skeptical until its existence was proven to me.
I know that it’s hard for you to accept, but think about it. Nothing impure can enter Heaven. Once we repent of our sins they are forgiven, but the stain of them is still there. This keeps us from entering Heaven ( Much like a criminal who repents of his crime but still has to serve time. ). Therefore, how is the stain removed, how are we made pure?
Purgatory is the only answer. God Bless.
PAX DOMINI
Shalom Aleichem
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guanophore
Guest
Your denial of the facts does not negate the facts.
No, Richard. Jesus gave his life as a ransom for men. Not all men, however, avail themselves of the paid ransom.
For those that do, His blood is sufficient to expiate all of our sins. He chooses to purify our souls gradually while we are on this earth in a process called “sanctification”. this is the process of being made holy as He is holy. Whoever dies in Christ who has not yet been totally purified of sins, is purified afterward. We are in this way made worthy of the calling to which we have been called.
Perhaps you have misunderstood purification as related to a lack of forgiveness. It is not. Only those persons whose sins are forgiven are purified.
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Nicea325
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Care to kindly tell me which non-Catholic church (39,000) is the church Christ founded?Still not totally sure that the catholic church, is the visible body of Christ; or the church that Jesus founded
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guanophore
Guest
Without this, there would be no opportunity for us to become purified. Jesus pays the eternal price for our sins. Sometimes He allows us to pay the temporal consequences. For example, He told the thief on the cross next to Him “today I tell you, you will be with me in paradise”. The man was saved by grace, through faith. Yet he hung upon the cross "suffering the just punishment’ for his own sins. Jesus did not spare him a moment of it, either. Although He could have taken the saved man, He allowed him to remain suffering on the cross in payment of his sins for the remainder of the day, suffer the pain of additionally having his legs broken, and die slowly and painfully. These were not eternal consequences, but temporal ones.
Indeed not. The opportunity for us to be purified from sins is a great gift, in this life, as well as the next.
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guanophore
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It seems that you are confusing eternal payments with temporal.
What do you think Jesus meant when He said "you will not get out until you have paid the last penny?
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guanophore
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What benefit will it be to you to learn what Catholics believe?Why not; what better way to find out what catholics really believe! And why is this called non-catholic forum, when there are so many catholics in it?
The ministry of Catholic Answers is to provide them to those who inquire. I look here in the NC section to find people such as yourself, who have been separated from the faith that the Apostles believed and taught.
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guanophore
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I believe that we are not given that information. What we do know is that there are places where they were baptizing that have as little as 4 inches of water at times of the year.
Immersion is the fullest sign.
The Apostles never separated the HS from the water. They taught that, when we enter the waters of baptism, we are circumcised in the heart by the HS.
Col 2: 9For in him the whole fullness of deity dwells bodily, 10and you have been filled in him, who is the head of all rule and authority. 11In him also you were circumcised with a circumcision made without hands, by putting off the body of the flesh, by the circumcision of Christ, 12having been buried with him in baptism, in which you were also raised with him through faith in the powerful working of God, who raised him from the dead. 13And you, who were dead in your trespasses and the uncircumcision of your flesh, God made alive together with him, having forgiven us all our trespasses,
In the waters of baptism, we are born from above by water, and Spirit.
“And now why are you waiting? Arise and be baptized, and wash away your sins, calling on the name of the Lord’” (Acts 22:12-16).
Titus 3:4 "But when the goodness and loving kindness of God our Savior appeared, 5he saved us, not because of works done by us in righteousness, but according to his own mercy, by the washing of regeneration and renewal of the Holy Spirit, 6whom he poured out on us richly through Jesus Christ our Savior, 7so that being justified by his grace we might become heirs according to the hope of eternal life. "
How people read these and cannot see taht baptism is inseparably linked with the rebirth of the soul by the power of teh HS I don’t know. He saved us…by the washing…
Yet, people do read it, and think baptism is a work of man, or that it is not related to salvation.
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guanophore
Guest
If that were true, then why is it that those who do not believe still die in their sins? How can people die from something that has already been banished?
Why did the Apostles teach us to “flee from sin”, and give us the example to struggle throughout life against the sins of the flesh? Why work so hard against that which is already banished?
Such a statement reflects a significant departure from what the Apostles believed and taught. You have been misled by the ideas of a Reformation attorney named Calvin.
This has been the unbroken teaching of the Church. Perhaps I am missing your point?
Baptism is the manner in which the blood of Christ is applied to the individual.
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Bill_Pick
Guest
[SIGN][/SIGN]
1beleevr;6411414:
However, the Baptism by St. John was not yet a Christian Baptism, which began with Jesus Baptizing His disciples in John 3:22, and for all after the Resurrection of Christ. St John’s was a Baptism of repentance.adrift;6411376 said:[/SIGN]
I don’t know lb because according to the words of Christ Jesus he said all who call on him will not enter I do not know you.
If you are speaking to the scripture in Romans,
In romans it says the word of faith is near you in your MOUTH and in your Heart. If you confess WITH YOUR MOUTH that Jesus Christ is lord, and believe in your heart you will be saved. (but Jesus is talking to the Jews here, because if they admit they accept Jesus it would mean disrupt normal familial and other social relationships including great economic sacrifice.
So I believe one again you are taking scripture out of context.
“I indeed baptize you with water, for repentance. But He who is coming after me is mightier than I, whose sandals I am not worthy to bear. He will baptize you with the Holy Spirit, and with fire.”
Matt 3:11
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Javl
Guest
My Dear Brother in Christ: I wish what you believe were true. If it were we would no longer have the very essence of evil ( sin ) in men like Hitler, Stalin, and the like. There would be no more murders, rapes, etc. All this evil IS sin. Please think it over. God Bless.
PAX DOMINI
Shalom Aleichem
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tweetymom
Guest
The church of mJesus that lives in the heart of all believers.
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Bill_Pick
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tweetmom, Again you do a good job of dancing around the questionThe church of mJesus that lives in the heart of all believers.
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