Purgatory......

[adrift]

It is important to remember that, even though Jesus told us that we must be perfect, as our Heavenly Father is perfect; I do not believe He meant our fleshly bodies. It is impossible for flesh to enter the Kingdom of God! And because we are human, He knows that no matter how hard we try, we are still vulnerable to falling short. And why, as humans, do we strive for perfection in our daily activities? Why do we have to have the perfect wife, kids, job, body? It doesn’t matter. When it;sall said and done, we will ALL be saints, united as one Body, praising and worshipping our Lord! And we should all know that nothing unclean will enter Heaven,we know that our God will clothe us in righteousness, to be like his Son!

I have many questions about you wrote but right now I wish to have you address only one.
Resurrection. If flesh cannot enter heaven, Where is Jesus? Where will we be when we resurrect?

 

[adrift]

Very good point the lB. Believe it or not that is Catholic teaching But beings that we do fall short, most of us, when it is our time to part this world we may have not reached that perfection quite yet. Thats why we believe in purgatory to cleanse us not only from all sin, but more importantly that desire to sin. Thats how we truly become perfect in Christ lose that desire.

We can sit here all we want and say we have no desires that can lead us to sin, But we would by lying. And thats what purgatory does gets rid of the desire to ever sin again. Thats how we become Saints in Christ and become perfect in CHrist with the final cleansing.

Some of us need a sponge bath, which makes our time in purgatory less. Others need a bubble bath, we need to stay awhile and soak. Oh geeze I am famous for my bubble baths Then again maybe I won’t need them in purgatory

Yes I did notice how close an analogy it was to Catholic beliefs. Good catch.

 

[adrift]

Yes, “two is better than one, and three is even better. For a cord of three is not easily broken.” Like the trinity, a marriage is made of of three, as you say; and is sacred. I must admit, that in my sordid past, I did not honor God’s dDivine plan for marriage, and He was not in it! I do not beat myself up over this faux pas, rather I revel in His grace and mercy, for forgiving me, and bringing my new wife into my life! Do I deserve it, no; well only because God says I do. I have not done anything in this life to merit salvation, but He offered it anyway:thumbsup: face it, if we got what we deserved, we’d all go to Hell.The reason I could never imagine confessing my sins to a priest(poor choice of words, possibly), is that Jesus’s death on the Cross, tore the veil(from the top down) allowing us entry, unrestricted, into the throneroom of grace(Hebrews 4:16). So, there is no need to go to a priest for confession. For counseling, or advice perhaps, or maybe to settle a dispute. And I for one do not believe that Mr Ratzinger ha done anything to warrant being addressed as Holy Father(no disrespect intended). God however, is worthy of that title and will be the only one I call HOLY FATHER! And of course you know I love you rinnie; just as I love all of my Christian brothers and sisters. I am learning(by the grace of God, to love everybody whom I come into contact with(second greatest Commandment) And I’m sure that we will meet at the first and second Judgement seats, and spend eternity worshipping our Lord:thumbsup::

You are on a Catholic forum. If you cannot be respectful, then do not post here. Calling the Pope Mr. is disrespectful. I don’t believe in protestant preachers but I would never be so disrespectful as to not call them by the title they wish. If you do not wish to use our title, than don’t write ANYTHING. You are not acting in a loving way when you insult others.
Jesus said to the Apostles who sins you forgive are forgiven. This was giving them the power to forgive sins .Going straight to God is not supported by Scripture

 

[1beleevr]

Would you please tell me what Scripture that Jesus says not to be a lender or a borrower.
The Scripture says "Amen, I say to you, you will not be released until you have paid the last penny. Many leave this earth owing. Jesus said that they wouldn’t be released. So the question is how does Jesus saying you won’t be released fit into your interpretation?

How do you derive from this passage that Jesus is referring to purgatory? And in 1Corinthians 3:13-15, what are a man’s works that are tested as by fire?

 

[adrift]

How do you derive from this passage that Jesus is referring to purgatory? And in 1Corinthians 3:13-15, what are a man’s works that are tested as by fire?

I ask release from what?
1 Corinthians 3:13-15 Is a good Scripture in support of Purgatory.

Would you please tell me what Scripture that Jesus says not to be a lender or a borrower.

I really would like to know where Jesus said this.

 

[1beleevr]

QUOTE=adrift;6388900]You are on a Catholic forum. If you cannot be respectful, then do not post here. Calling the Pope Mr. is disrespectful. I don’t believe in protestant preachers but I would never be so disrespectful as to not call them by the title they wish. If you do not wish to use our title, than don’t write ANYTHING. You are not acting in a loving way when you insult others.
Jesus said to the Apostles who sins you forgive are forgiven. This was giving them the power to forgive sins .Going straight to God is not supported by Scripture

Thank you for your admonishments, and for reminding me of where I am Calling anyone sir, or Mister, is a sign of respect.My father taught me at a young age that one does not always respect the person in authority, but respects the authority. In the military, we learned to call officers, or even higher ranking noncoms by their rank first, and then their last name. Some officers preferred to be called “Mister”. I totally understand most catholics devotion to their pope, but I cannot in loyalty to God, call him or refer to him as Holy Father; sorry. What has Mr. Ratzinger done to warrant that title? Got elected pope by a council of bishops and cardinals? And calling anyone sir or Mr. is not disrespectful, quite the contrary. I call my pastor by his first name, as he and I have a relationship which allows that. I am not in awe of him, and until the pope walks on water, he is just another mister who is in charge of the catholic church. And rest assured that I have the utmost respect and honor for ANY and all men of God, until they prove me wrong! If I were to meet the pope, I would shake his hand, and say,“Pleased to meet you sir.”(No kissing the ring though)P.S. Do not admonish people about lack of charity(“you are not acting in aloving way”) unless you yourself show that charity!

 

[1beleevr]

I ask release from what?
1 Corinthians 3:13-15 Is a good Scripture in support of Purgatory.

I really would like to know where Jesus said this.

That’s what I ask,“Relaesed from what?” And 1Corinthians 3:13-15 is a questionable scripture in support of purgatory Once again, what are the works Paul refers to?

 

[adrift]

That’s what I ask,“Relaesed from what?” And 1Corinthians 3:13-15 is a questionable scripture in support of purgatory Once again, what are the works Paul refers to?

You have not answered
Would you please tell me what Scripture that Jesus says not to be a lender or a borrower.

 

[adrift]

Thank you for your admonishments, and for reminding me of where I am Calling anyone sir, or Mister, is a sign of respect.My father taught me at a young age that one does not always respect the person in authority, but respects the authority. In the military, we learned to call officers, or even higher ranking noncoms by their rank first, and then their last name. Some officers preferred to be called “Mister”. I totally understand most catholics devotion to their pope, but I cannot in loyalty to God, call him or refer to him as Holy Father; sorry. What has Mr. Ratzinger done to warrant that title? Got elected pope by a council of bishops and cardinals? And calling anyone sir or Mr. is not disrespectful, quite the contrary. I call my pastor by his first name, as he and I have a relationship which allows that. I am not in awe of him, and until the pope walks on water, he is just another mister who is in charge of the catholic church. And rest assured that I have the utmost respect and honor for ANY and all men of God, until they prove me wrong! If I were to meet the pope, I would shake his hand, and say,“Pleased to meet you sir.”(No kissing the ring though)P.S. Do not admonish people about lack of charity(“you are not acting in aloving way”) unless you yourself show that charity!

In this instance to call the Pope Mr. is a sign of disrespect. If I were to call the president Mr without his office it would not be respectful. I choose not to report you but if you continue I will. Refrain from mentioning him at all if you can not do it without being insulting. Oh an you should follow your own p.s. It was meant as a dig which really bounced on to you without sullying me.

 

[1beleevr]

In this instance to call the Pope Mr. is a sign of disrespect. If I were to call the president Mr without his office it would not be respectful. I choose not to report you but if you continue I will. Refrain from mentioning him at all if you can not do it without being insulting. Oh an you should follow your own p.s. It was meant as a dig which really bounced on to you without sullying me.

So, to say Mr. pope is okay? And your narrow scope of respect and or disrespect, leaves little room for error You can report someone for not showing the pope the proper respect? After he takes his robe off, and is in bed, is he not Mr. Ratzinger? What pleasure would you derive from reporting me? to be able to say, “I showed that noncatholic what time it is!” The pope is the leader of the catholic church ONLY, and is not recognized by numerous religions as the spiritual leader of the world! Certainly not by the Jews, (even though the church was founded by a Jew).Actually you were sullied by it! Do you live in aglass house?

 

[adrift]

So, to say Mr. pope is okay? And your narrow scope of respect and or disrespect, leaves little room for error You can report someone for not showing the pope the proper respect? After he takes his robe off, and is in bed, is he not Mr. Ratzinger? What pleasure would you derive from reporting me? to be able to say, “I showed that noncatholic what time it is!” The pope is the leader of the catholic church ONLY, and is not recognized by numerous religions as the spiritual leader of the world! Certainly not by the Jews, (even though the church was founded by a Jew).Actually you were sullied by it! Do you live in aglass house?

To respect the Catholic religion is what you agreed to when you joined this forum. All you have to do is refrain from posting this type of remarks. I will not discuss it further.

Answer the question I have asked three times

Would you please tell me what Scripture that Jesus says not to be a lender or a borrower.

I am beginning to wonder if He said it.

 

[adrift]

Mathew 5

42
** Give** to the one who asks of you, and do not turn your back on one who wants to borrow.

 

[1beleevr]

I have many questions about you wrote but right now I wish to have you address only one.
Resurrection. If flesh cannot enter heaven, Where is Jesus? Where will we be when we resurrect?

Ah, but Jesus’s resurrected flesh was not like our sin infested, defiant, prideful flesh! Our flesh will never conform to the will of God, but our spirit must, if we are to enter the Kingdom of Heaven!

 

[adrift]

Ah, but Jesus’s resurrected flesh was not like our sin infested, defiant, prideful flesh! Our flesh will never conform to the will of God, but our spirit must, if we are to enter the Kingdom of Heaven!

This is not an answer to the question. Jesus has a glorified Body but it is STILL flesh. His Body was never sin infested. He never committed a sin. We too will be resurrected with a glorified body. Even though we are very sinful.
You still haven’t answered where Jesus said not to loan or borrow. I found only one Scripture which said you should lend that would have meant there was a borrower as well.

 

[1beleevr]

To respect the Catholic religion is what you agreed to when you joined this forum. All you have to do is refrain from posting this type of remarks. I will not discuss it further.

Answer the question I have asked three times

I am beginning to wonder if He said it.

And I have shown respect to my catholic brothers and sisters! But you see, respect is one of those things that can be distorted into whatever one wants or expects it to be! We have inmates who demand their respect. We have inmates that if you look at them crosseyed feel disrespected! Some people, if you don’t like the same things they like it is disrespect! So where do you draw the line? Just because I don’t feel the need to confess to a priest, or call him or the pope father, or Holy Father, does not denote disrespect! I respect his office, and title, but he is not my spiritual leader, he’s yours:thumbsup:

 

[1beleevr]

This is not an answer to the question. Jesus had a glorified Body but it was STILL flesh. We too will be resurrected with a glorified body.
You still haven’t answered where Jesus said not to loan or borrow. I found only one Scripture which said you should lend that would have meant there was a borrower as well.

But He did say, that a borrower became a slave to the lender! And W-O-W, you are really stubborn! How can you compare Jesus’s flesh to ours? Read 1 Corinthians 15:50, and tell me what it means to you. And as for that comment about lender or borrower, I was paraphrasing from a preacher I once heard say it!

 

[1beleevr]

You are on a Catholic forum. If you cannot be respectful, then do not post here. Calling the Pope Mr. is disrespectful. I don’t believe in protestant preachers but I would never be so disrespectful as to not call them by the title they wish. If you do not wish to use our title, than don’t write ANYTHING. You are not acting in a loving way when you insult others.
Jesus said to the Apostles who sins you forgive are forgiven. This was giving them the power to forgive sins .Going straight to God is not supported by Scripture

One final note about respect: If you are judging(Matthew 7:1-5) people’s respect by how they react to things catholic, then your priorities are askew! We are not to worship mortal men(although many adore and worship sports and movie stars). Our spiritual leaders are to be strong, but humble, seeking God in every decision. Because you have decided to exlt the pope to a position equal with Jesus, does not necessarily mean that every other Christian will. You have not proven that he(thepope) is the so-called vicar of Christ! But in your arrogance you blast anyone(and you’re not the first) who doesn’t call him Holy Father. To do so would imply that we accept him as our holy father, which is contradictory to God. leaders are here for a reason, and I accept that; God does not make mistakes! But, we must be careful not to give too much weight to these people, lest some of them abuse the authority(much like all of the sex abuse cases throughout the religious power). So all that being said, I believe that I have been respectful to you and your forum; if you believe otherwise, that is something you’ll have to work out!

 

[adrift]

But He did say, that a borrower became a slave to the lender! And W-O-W, you are really stubborn! How can you compare Jesus’s flesh to ours? Read 1 Corinthians 15:50, and tell me what it means to you. And as for that comment about lender or borrower, I was paraphrasing from a preacher I once heard say it!

Footnotes

1 [1-58] Some consider this chapter an earlier Pauline composition inserted into the present letter. The problem that Paul treats is clear to a degree: some of the Corinthians are denying the resurrection of the dead (1 Cor 15:12), apparently because of their inability to imagine how any kind of bodily existence could be possible after death (1 Cor 15:35). It is plausibly supposed that their attitude stems from Greek anthropology, which looks with contempt upon matter and would be content with the survival of the soul, and perhaps also from an overrealized eschatology of gnostic coloration, such as that reflected in 2 Tim 2:18, which considers the resurrection a purely spiritual experience already achieved in baptism and in the forgiveness of sins. Paul, on the other hand, will affirm both the essential corporeity of the resurrection and its futurity. His response moves through three steps: a recall of the basic kerygma about Jesus’ resurrection (1 Cor 15:1-11), an assertion of the logical inconsistencies involved in denial of the resurrection (1 Cor 15:12-34), and an attempt to perceive theologically what the properties of the resurrected body must be (1 Cor 15:35-58).
23 [50-57] These verses, an answer to the first question of 1 Cor 15:35, explain theologically how the change of properties from one image to another will take place: God has the power to transform, and he will exercise it.

24 [50-53] Flesh and blood . . . corruption: living persons and the corpses of the dead, respectively. In both cases, the gulf between creatures and God is too wide to be bridged unless God himself transforms us.

 

[1beleevr]

adrift:
Nice, very nice! And as I said earlier our flesh cannot enter the Kingdom of God; this flesh we are currently ensconced in! Is it possible to respect someone or something, even if you don’t like or agree with them?

 

[adrift]

One final note about respect: If you are judging(Matthew 7:1-5) people’s respect by how they react to things catholic, then your priorities are askew! We are not to worship mortal men(although many adore and worship sports and movie stars). Our spiritual leaders are to be strong, but humble, seeking God in every decision. Because you have decided to exlt the pope to a position equal with Jesus, does not necessarily mean that every other Christian will. You have not proven that he(thepope) is the so-called vicar of Christ! But in your arrogance you blast anyone(and you’re not the first) who doesn’t call him Holy Father. To do so would imply that we accept him as our holy father, which is contradictory to God. leaders are here for a reason, and I accept that; God does not make mistakes! But, we must be careful not to give too much weight to these people, lest some of them abuse the authority(much like all of the sex abuse cases throughout the religious power). So all that being said, I believe that I have been respectful to you and your forum; if you believe otherwise, that is something you’ll have to work out!

I didn’t want to comment further but … You do not understand what judgement is.

then your priorities are askew!

Is a judgement but it is not the judgement of which Jesus was speaking. The arrogant ( another judgement) is yourself. No where did I blast you for not calling him Holy Father. I said you were being disrespectful to call him sir or Mr. He has a title. Your option which I have stated is to not write about him at all.

Third, a careful examination of the context of Matthew 23 shows that** Jesus didn’t intend for his words here to be understood literally**. The whole passage reads, “But you are not to be called ‘rabbi,’ for you have one teacher, and you are all brethren. And call no man your father on earth, for you have one Father, who is in heaven. Neither be called ‘masters,’ for you have one master, the Christ” (Matt. 23:8–10).

Note your not suppose to call anyone master. Do you know what Mr. is an abbreviation for? That’s right master. You run into all sorts of problems when you take out of context