Purgatory......

[adrift]

Forgive me for my choice of wods, but there are many catholics on this forum who do make us feel unworthy because we are not catholics! We love and believe in Jesus as much as you do!

Thank you for the Apology. It humbles me.
Unfortunately, there is much truth in what you say. I am glad that you love Jesus. You will probably spend less time being purged than I will. I am only wanting to have an understanding of our belief. I also want to understand yours. Why you believe as you do. Things don’t add up sometimes. So I try to get it to make sense. Perhaps because of the limitations of the written word it does not come across well. So forgive me for that.

I hope you realize that there are those who attack us. The bad thing is that an attack is denied and then those who are attacking turn around and say they are the victims. I guess we need to step back and try to see the others point. You don’t have to agree with the point but at least acknowledge it. You must also understand that there are those on the threads that contribute nothing to the discussion but snipes. I have been trying really really hard to stop my own snipes that is why I have put one of these snipers on ignore. So now I only see their remarks if someone quotes them.
I hope God Continues to Bless You.
Adrift

 

[rinnie]

rinnie, Why did Jesus come into this world?

To save us from sin.

 

[rinnie]

Bill Pick;6409886:

rinnie;6409311:

Not sure if ALL scripture came from the mouths of the early church fathersCircumcision was done as part of God’s covenant with the Jews.Do children in the catholic church get baptized at eight days, as is the custom for circumcision? Do you seriously believe that a baby has a state of mine, Billy? Do you think they are cognizant of what’s happening to them when they are sprinkled? If the Blood of Christ washes way sin, and the child does not know Christ, can you really say that they re saved? Let’s say they get baptized(sprinkled at 2 years old, and begin a lifelong sin campaign, are they saved?

Yes because you have to understand baptism for what it is. 2 things. First of all it is the entering of the Holy Spirit into ones soul. You do not have to be a certain age for that. The Holy Spirit can enter a soul at any age. Second babtism saves us from orignal sin, that is the sin that we were born into because of the sin of Adam and Eve. Adam and Eve gave us O.S. and Jesus took it away.

When a soul comes into this world you want the entering of Christ as soon as possible. Is not Baptism Gods covenant with Christians??

I don’t know if in the CHurch its 8 days or not. But I would say its close because I always did my children within a week. But you got me there. Not sure how soon its possible in the Church.

Now you are asking me about Original sin and actual sin. Now if a child sins at 2 is it still saved. Yes, because a child at 2 is not at the age of reason,

Actual sin is the sin we commit at the age of reason. Did Jesus pay for that too? Sure he did because without his death and res. we would not have had the sacraments. All sin was paid for by Jesus, but we must do our part also with his help, by repenting and quiting the sin. Then you get into venial sin and mortal sin.

You have to realize lb there is sickness of the body and sickness of the soul. Both are deadly.

When Jesus was eating with sinners he was questioned on this also. But Jesus said do the people who are well need a Dr or do the sick seek a Dr. When a Catholic is in mortal sin he is experiencing death of the soul and needs medicine from God. Just like a person with cancer. A Priest can offer medicince just like a Dr, but he can heal the soul instead of the body. Jesus gave him that power the same way his Father gave it to him. It is called Holy Orders. It can heal the body or the soul, and sometimes both, That is up to Gods will.

When my brother had a brain tumor he was 39. Father gave him Holy Orders and healed my brothers soul. He did a good confession and was forgiven. God healed my brother, but he also felt that my brothers time was up in this world, My brother died in this world to be with God in the next. Did God heal my brother body and soul? Yes he did, He took him to the next world as whole and his sickness was also gone. Few can understand what I am saying and accept this. God made this possible for me:shrug:

 

[rinnie]

Exactly. I was baptised as a baby and since i do not remember it, it has done nothing to me. Did I know sin at the age of 4 months old I think not.

So then tweety I ask you again do you reject original sin? Are you saying you were not born into original sin?

 

[rinnie]

[SIGN][/SIGN]

Bill Pick;6409886:

rinnie;6409311:

[SIGN]Not sure if ALL scripture came from the mouths of the early church fathers[/SIGN]Circumcision was done as part of God’s covenant with the Jews.Do children in the catholic church get baptized at eight days, as is the custom for circumcision? Do you seriously believe that a baby has a state of mine, Billy? Do you think they are cognizant of what’s happening to them when they are sprinkled? If the Blood of Christ washes way sin, and the child does not know Christ, can you really say that they re saved? Let’s say they get baptized(sprinkled at 2 years old, and begin a lifelong sin campaign, are they saved?

Okay then I’ll bite when did we get the teaching from then, if not given to us by the Apostles ( Early Church Fathers)? By word of mouth? Did Jesus leave us the bible before he left?

 

[rinnie]

Baptism is not only a belief in Jesus but obedience to Him as well. We don’t believe that you are saved by saying I believe. It takes more that that. If you do believe in Jesus you would belong to the Church He founded as He intended.

Correct adrift. And when a child is baptised in the RCC we have God parents who make promises to bring that child up in the faith. ANd then once that child is brought up and taught the faith he is confirmed, Usually in about 8th grade. Then it is that childs duty to be responsible for its own faith and sin.

BUt I would guess the age of reason in the church would be first grade, because thats when they receive the eucharist and must confess their sins.

And you are also correct who believes in Jesus more than the devil. Belief is not near enough.

Jesus said if you believe in me and love me keep my word. KEEP MY WORD. Alot of people forget that part for some reason.

 

[rinnie]

[SIGN][/SIGN]

adrift;6411376:

1beleevr;6411319:

And we don’t believe in purgatory OSAS is on another thread, but the jury is still out on that issue! I can only remember back to three years old. It sounds as though you are making baptism more important than salvation, when baptism is just a part of the salvation process! [SIGN]What does,“All who call upon the Name of Jesus wil be saved mwean?”

[/SIGN]

I don’t know lb because according to the words of Christ Jesus he said all who call on him will not enter I do not know you.

If you are speaking to the scripture in Romans,
In romans it says the word of faith is near you in your MOUTH and in your Heart. If you confess WITH YOUR MOUTH that Jesus Christ is lord, and believe in your heart you will be saved. (but Jesus is talking to the Jews here, because if they admit they accept Jesus it would mean disrupt normal familial and other social relationships including great economic sacrifice.

So I believe one again you are taking scripture out of context.

 

[Bill_Pick]

Bill Pick;6411677:

1beleevr;6411504:

Oh no, pit bulls!And after reading 2Mac, I am still in the dark about purgatory!

If you can read english its very plain,what part do you not understand,do you need me to post it again,if it will help you I,ll do it ust for you.,have a good day,smile

 

[Richard_Kastner]

Quote:
Originally Posted by Richard Kastner
rinnie, Why did Jesus come into this world?

To save us from sin.

Why would He do that if all we had to do was be baptised?

 

[Bill_Pick]

Quote:
Originally Posted by Richard Kastner
rinnie, Why did Jesus come into this world?

Why would He do that if all we had to do was be baptised?

Richard, I have a question well two question, Why did Jesus say what He said in Mark 16;16 and in John 3:5 was it because He had no one to talk to and was just a nice guy,smile

 

[Richard_Kastner]

Richard, I have a question well two question, Why did Jesus say what He said in Mark 16;16 and in John 3:5 was it because He had no one to talk to and was just a nice guy,smile

Mark16:16He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.

Jn.3:5 5Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.

Ok, these two vs. are saying basically the same thing. That we must believe and be baptised. The first thing we need to do is believe in Jesus Christ and what He did on the cross to save us from our sins. When we do that we are justified before God and our sins are forgiven because of what Crist has done, however it doesn’t end there. We need to announce our faith in Christ to the world. Check out Rom.10 9&10

Rom.10:9That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.
10For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.

Our baptism is an outward sign of our confession of faith in the shed blood of Jesus to save us.

Ok, I answered your question now to be fair you need to answer my question. If our sins are forgiven by the mere act of being baptised, (salvation by works) then why did Jesus even bother to come down to this sinful planet. Why when He prayed three times in the garden of Getsemine to “let this cup pass from me” did the answer apparently come back to Him from His loving Father that there was no other way.

 

[Bill_Pick]

Mark16:16He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.

Jn.3:5 5Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.

Ok, these two vs. are saying basically the same thing. That we must believe and be baptised. The first thing we need to do is believe in Jesus Christ and what He did on the cross to save us from our sins. When we do that we are justified before God and our sins are forgiven because of what Crist has done, however it doesn’t end there. We need to announce our faith in Christ to the world. Check out Rom.10 9&10

Rom.10:9That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.
10For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.

Our baptism is an outward sign of our confession of faith in the shed blood of Jesus to save us.

Ok, I answered your question now to be fair you need to answer my question. If our sins are forgiven by the mere act of being baptised, (salvation by works) then why did Jesus even bother to come down to this sinful planet. Why when He prayed three times in the garden of Getsemine to “let this cup pass from me” did the answer apparently come back to Him from His loving Father that there was no other way.

Baptism may save to a point but the first time we sin it is over and we must repent

 

[rinnie]

Quote:
Originally Posted by Richard Kastner
rinnie, Why did Jesus come into this world?

Why would He do that if all we had to do was be baptised?

Richard have you not been reading what I have been writing here:banghead: Did you not understand that in Catholic teaching there is Original sin and Actual Sin?

By the way why would he have to do that? Because we could not pay for our sins on our own we needed a Savior a Man without sin to save us

Tell me Richard why do you think that in the O.T those people could not enter heaven?

 

[1beleevr]

Quote:
Originally Posted by Richard Kastner
rinnie, Why did Jesus come into this world?

Why would He do that if all we had to do was be baptised?

Another good question; and without a equally good response! Baptism alone neither wshes away our sins(Blood of Christ), nor does it alone save us!

 

[1beleevr]

Thank you for the Apology. It humbles me.
Unfortunately, there is much truth in what you say. I am glad that you love Jesus. You will probably spend less time being purged than I will. I am only wanting to have an understanding of our belief. I also want to understand yours. Why you believe as you do. Things don’t add up sometimes. So I try to get it to make sense. Perhaps because of the limitations of the written word it does not come across well. So forgive me for that.

I hope you realize that there are those who attack us. The bad thing is that an attack is denied and then those who are attacking turn around and say they are the victims. I guess we need to step back and try to see the others point. You don’t have to agree with the point but at least acknowledge it. You must also understand that there are those on the threads that contribute nothing to the discussion but snipes. I have been trying really really hard to stop my own snipes that is why I have put one of these snipers on ignore. So now I only see their remarks if someone quotes them.
I hope God Continues to Bless You.
Adrift

It has been nearly 43 years since I gave my life to Jesus, and let me tell you, this road has been paved with joy, sorrow,sin, temptation, loss and so many other things I don’t have room to elaborate on! Am I right, sometimes I believe I am, and sometimes I’m wrong. The main thing is, I am nothing ithout Christ, and have nothing without Him. I love Jesus more than my wife, mother, friends and family! It is because of Him that I have all these things. He has helped me to give up cigarettes, cursing, and has helped me to reduce my drinking(wine only) to once a month. I have ineracted ith people of all different faiths, some very prejudice and abusive, others humble and willing to discuss or debate. The Holy Spirit truly does lead me into Spirit and truth, and I know that without the grace of God, I am not orthy of Heaven, based on my on meits! I am a sinner, like everone else, and know that at any moment, I can slip right back into bad habits. But, I serve a loving and forgiving God, whose blessings I do not take for granted! The thing that has expanded my walk and strengthened my faith, is serving Him. My wife and I do street ministry, feed the homeless and witness to others, every chance we get. We also have a nursing home ministry and sing in the worship group. With God, there is never a shortage of work; e just have to be willing to step up and do it(Mark 10:45) So, I respect you, and your faith, and though we disagree on some issues, I love you as my brother in Christ, and look forward to seeing you in Heaven, God Bless You! 1beleevr

 

[tweetymom]

It has been nearly 43 years since I gave my life to Jesus, and let me tell you, this road has been paved with joy, sorrow,sin, temptation, loss and so many other things I don’t have room to elaborate on! Am I right, sometimes I believe I am, and sometimes I’m wrong. The main thing is, I am nothing ithout Christ, and have nothing without Him. I love Jesus more than my wife, mother, friends and family! It is because of Him that I have all these things. He has helped me to give up cigarettes, cursing, and has helped me to reduce my drinking(wine only) to once a month. I have ineracted ith people of all different faiths, some very prejudice and abusive, others humble and willing to discuss or debate. The Holy Spirit truly does lead me into Spirit and truth, and I know that without the grace of God, I am not orthy of Heaven, based on my on meits! I am a sinner, like everone else, and know that at any moment, I can slip right back into bad habits. But, I serve a loving and forgiving God, whose blessings I do not take for granted! The thing that has expanded my walk and strengthened my faith, is serving Him. My wife and I do street ministry, feed the homeless and witness to others, every chance we get. We also have a nursing home ministry and sing in the worship group. With God, there is never a shortage of work; e just have to be willing to step up and do it(Mark 10:45) So, I respect you, and your faith, and though we disagree on some issues, I love you as my brother in Christ, and look forward to seeing you in Heaven, God Bless You! 1beleevr

Thank you and God Bless you and your wife as you do Gods work. love you dear brother in Christ.

 

[rinnie]

Another good question; and without a equally good response! Baptism alone neither wshes away our sins(Blood of Christ), nor does it alone save us!

Okay then Ib I understand you do not except Catholic teaching, and thats okay. But if Catholic teaching is not correct to you how to you explain the scripture that says one baptism for forgiveness of sins. And why can you only be baptised once?

Ib I have asked you before but you never answered me. Do you reject original sin, If you do, why are we not in the garden of eden? Were we brought into this world with sin or not?

 

[rinnie]

[SIGN][/SIGN]

Mark16:16He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.

Jn.3:5 5Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.

Ok, these two vs. are saying basically the same thing. That we must believe and be baptised. The first thing we need to do is believe in Jesus Christ and what He did on the cross to save us from our sins. When we do that we are justified before God and our sins are forgiven because of what Crist has done, however it doesn’t end there. We need to announce our faith in Christ to the world. Check out Rom.10 9&10

Rom.10:9That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.
10For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.

Our baptism is an outward sign of our confession of faith in the shed blood of Jesus to save us.

Ok, I answered your question now to be fair you need to answer my question. If[SIGN] our sins are forgiven by the mere act of being baptised, (salvation by works) then why did Jesus even bother to come down to this sinful planet. [/SIGN]Why when He prayed three times in the garden of Getsemine to “let this cup pass from me” did the answer apparently come back to Him from His loving Father that there was no other way.

Richard I do not understand what you are saying. You said if baptism was for forgivenss of our sins why did Jesus have to come down to our planet? Richard that is the whole purpose of Jesus comming down to our planet to pay for our sins. We are washed from them in Baptism. Without Jesus this was not possible. It had to take someone sinless to take on the sins of the world.

The reason there was no other way is because man could not forego the sin. That is why Jesus paid the price for all of us. It was his love for us. So we could all be together someday.

 

[Bill_Pick]

Mark16:16He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.

Jn.3:5 5Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.

Ok, these two vs. are saying basically the same thing. That we must believe and be baptised. The first thing we need to do is believe in Jesus Christ and what He did on the cross to save us from our sins. When we do that we are justified before God and our sins are forgiven because of what Crist has done, however it doesn’t end there. We need to announce our faith in Christ to the world. Check out Rom.10 9&10

Rom.10:9That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.
10For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.

Our baptism is an outward sign of our confession of faith in the she,a yes or nod blood of Jesus to save us.

Ok, I answered your question now to be fair you need to answer my question. If our sins are forgiven by the mere act of being baptised, (salvation by works) then why did Jesus even bother to come down to this sinful planet. Why when He prayed three times in the garden of Getsemine to “let this cup pass from me” did the answer apparently come back to Him from His loving Father that there was no other way.

Richard Dos your church have baptism if so WHY…If a person is baptism at 2 in the after noon and is kill at 3 o clock iwreck is he saved ,can he get to heaven

 

[Richard_Kastner]

[SIGN][/SIGN]
Richard that is the whole purpose of Jesus comming down to our planet to pay for our sins.

This is quite true.

We are washed from them in Baptism.

This is were you go wrong. Baptism forgives nothing. Baptism has no power at all to wash us from our sins.

1Cor.6:11And such were some of you: but ye are washed, but ye are sanctified, but ye are justified in the name of the Lord Jesus, and by the Spirit of our God.

We are washed from our sins in the blood of the Lamb of God.

Rev.1:4John to the seven churches which are in Asia: Grace be unto you, and peace, from him which is, and which was, and which is to come; and from the seven Spirits which are before his throne;
5And from Jesus Christ, who is the faithful witness, and the first begotten of the dead, and the prince of the kings of the earth. Unto him that loved us, and washed us from our sins in his own blood,

Baptism is our announcement to the world that we have been washed in the blood of the Lamb.