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ConstantineTG
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So what is the Eastern Catholic view on Purgatory? Is it more Roman Catholic, or more Orthodox?
Since its All Souls Day, I guess its a good topic
Since its All Souls Day, I guess its a good topic
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DavidKays
Guest
Hi! I am positive that the Catholic Church has sole possesion of the teaching on Purgatory. The Eastern Catholics will had to adopt it from the Catholic Church once it became united to Her. Probably the Eastern Catholic Church was the same as the Eastern Orthodox Church before Her union with Rome so She incoperated the Catholic teaching into Her own catechism once the union was made. Easterners were basically the same with some of them accepting Purgatory while others did not. I feel that Purgatory was not really refined enough back then ( I am referring now to almost 600 years ago ) to the teaching that is now established today. It took time for it to be better defined. I will say that it was more accurate that the Orthodox back then could not accept the Purgatory teaching because of the way it was stated. I read those definations from those years and I would not have accepted them either. I am a Greek Orthodox christian who actually believes in the teaching of Purgatory. I accept it as truth because it does make sense. However teaching or the doctrine teaching of Purgatory does not make it real until you practice what it proposes. What are we all to do is to remember constantly the departed in our prayers offering up sacrifices, the Mass, the Divine Liturgy, the Rosary. the Chaplet of the Divine Mercy or whatever devotions you are taught so that the souls who have died may partake of these Graces for their benefit so eventually they may all enter into the Heavenly State. I believe as Easterners both Eastern Catholic and Eastern Orthodox do more praying for the departed than our Catholic brothers and sisters. We are always offering up prayer services such as those memeriol services such as the 40 day one or the 6 month one or the yearly one. In our private devotions many of the Eastern prayers do reflect on the souls departed and they constantly remind us to pray for them. I do not think Purgatory teaching will change the way we pray in the East since we pray for the departed souls anyway. What it will do is help explain more in a defined way WHY we are to pray for them. The explanation from the West is important to help explain why but the explanation will not encourage more prayers except for those who do neglect to pray and then discovering the teaching on Purgatory will start to pray for the beloved souls. My own reflections on Purgatory is very simple and they do agree with the Teaching from Rome for I have studied enough to be an " expert " if one can say on it. For me Purgatory is for this life that is the life you are living now and will extend only in the next life if you need it. What God will do is extend Purgatory to the next life if you have not completed it in this life. It makes sense because God will only extend what is already there. Since the Saints and some of us have completed our Purgatory before we die we can then immediately enter Heaven. Since most of us do not complete our Purgatory before we die then God extends it to what we call Purgatory after we die. But God only extends to what is already there. While you are living you are in a Purgatory state. So you are in a Purgatory state now. And you can do something about it now before you die. I will give one way though their are many. One way to cancel all your Purgatory time to date is to participate in the Divine Mercy Sunday celebration on that day by receiving Holy Communion and by Holy Confession. Confession can be made 8 days beforehand. Divine Mercy Sunday comes up 1 week after Easter. God then will cancel all your Purgatory up to that point. So you get a fresh start. Is not that wonderful. I hope someday that the Eastern Orthodox will receive this teaching as well and I mean the more refined teaching so that they can incoperate it into their catechism.
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DavidKays
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May I add something that I was trying to address earlier. The Teaching of Purgatory is not only for the souls who have departed but much more for the souls who are living now. We can all do something before we die. We can all try to eliminate our Purgatory before our time. Why wait till after we die. You cannot do anything for yourself after you die for you need others on earth to do that so why don’t you do something now. You can help yourself now. I think it is because we are lazy that many of us do not do anything now and that is why most of us must continue our Purgatory after we die. While in a Purgatory state after you die you will eventually have Heaven but you are going to have to wait. But why wait? Help yourself now so that you may not need to wait at all ( or you may just need to wait a little while ).
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Alexander_Roman
Guest
Dear Friends,
Purgatory was once popular during the Kyvian Baroque era in the Orthodox Church. St Peter Mohyla the Metropolitan used it in his Catechism of the Orthodox-Catholic Christian Church etc. And even when the Orthodox Patriarchs accepted his Catechism but ordered the term “purgatory” dropped from it, Mohyla continued to use it throughout his own metropolitanical jurisdiction.
Fr. .John Meyendorff (+ memory eternal!) in his popular book on Byzantine theology does mention several Greek Orthodox theologians who accepted Purgatory (and also the western version of Original Sin and the Immaculate Conception, for that matter, and who weren’t offended by the Filioque when they saw a “peace-loving pope on the Roman throne”).
The question then is - “Does Orthodoxy pray for the dead when it doesn’t accept purgatory?” The answer is a resounding “yes.”
Orthodoxy has a different eschatology than that of Rome. While rejecting indulgences, Orthodoxy DOES insist that after the confession of our sins, we are obliged to perform “works of repentance” such as prayer, fasting, almsgiving etc. for the purpose of healing our sinfulness and sinful inclinations as well as to repair the damage our sins have done in the Body of Christ etc. A medicinal effect rather than one of “satisfaction.”
Those souls who haven’t sufficiently practiced works of repentance cannot be immediately united with God and Christ in the next world (full union will only really come at the Second Coming and after the Final Judgement).
The Church therefore prays for such souls, especially through the Divine Liturgy. Every Saturday, the Eastern Church, Orthodox and Catholic, prays liturgically for the dead, also during Lent, in November and at other times. For forty days after one’s repose, the Church will include that soul in daily Liturgies and the family and friends are expected to pray the psalms ceasely for the same intention. Then there is the half-year and then annual commemorations of the soul that has reposed.
Again, the Latin Catholic Church is entitled to her own canonical and theological traditions, including its definition of “purgatory.”
Without using such a definition, the Orthodox and Eastern Catholic Churches continue their Apostolic liturgical tradition of assiduous prayer for the dead that “they may be loosed from their sins.”
Alex
Purgatory was once popular during the Kyvian Baroque era in the Orthodox Church. St Peter Mohyla the Metropolitan used it in his Catechism of the Orthodox-Catholic Christian Church etc. And even when the Orthodox Patriarchs accepted his Catechism but ordered the term “purgatory” dropped from it, Mohyla continued to use it throughout his own metropolitanical jurisdiction.
Fr. .John Meyendorff (+ memory eternal!) in his popular book on Byzantine theology does mention several Greek Orthodox theologians who accepted Purgatory (and also the western version of Original Sin and the Immaculate Conception, for that matter, and who weren’t offended by the Filioque when they saw a “peace-loving pope on the Roman throne”).
The question then is - “Does Orthodoxy pray for the dead when it doesn’t accept purgatory?” The answer is a resounding “yes.”
Orthodoxy has a different eschatology than that of Rome. While rejecting indulgences, Orthodoxy DOES insist that after the confession of our sins, we are obliged to perform “works of repentance” such as prayer, fasting, almsgiving etc. for the purpose of healing our sinfulness and sinful inclinations as well as to repair the damage our sins have done in the Body of Christ etc. A medicinal effect rather than one of “satisfaction.”
Those souls who haven’t sufficiently practiced works of repentance cannot be immediately united with God and Christ in the next world (full union will only really come at the Second Coming and after the Final Judgement).
The Church therefore prays for such souls, especially through the Divine Liturgy. Every Saturday, the Eastern Church, Orthodox and Catholic, prays liturgically for the dead, also during Lent, in November and at other times. For forty days after one’s repose, the Church will include that soul in daily Liturgies and the family and friends are expected to pray the psalms ceasely for the same intention. Then there is the half-year and then annual commemorations of the soul that has reposed.
Again, the Latin Catholic Church is entitled to her own canonical and theological traditions, including its definition of “purgatory.”
Without using such a definition, the Orthodox and Eastern Catholic Churches continue their Apostolic liturgical tradition of assiduous prayer for the dead that “they may be loosed from their sins.”
Alex
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ciero
Guest
Its NOT All Souls day on the Byzantine calendar.
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Alexander_Roman
Guest
Actually, there are some Eastern Catholic Particular Churches that do indeed observe All Souls’ Day today. Alex
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ConstantineTG
Guest
Well I am canonically Latin
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ConstantineTG
Guest
So generally Eastern Catholics follow the same belief as the Orthodox? I have a good idea of the Orthodox teaching on the afterlife. I’m just unsure if Eastern Catholics are allowed to follow this or if they follow the teaching on Purgatory
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ciero
Guest
Eastern Catholics who follow the directives of Rome…follow the teaching of their mother church… eschewing all forms of Latinizations…INCLUDING purgatory. We are not only ALLOWED but encouraged to follow our own theology and traditions.
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ag_vn
Guest
Some pictures from All Souls’ Day in the Syriac Catholic Archdiocese of Aleppo (Syria)
syrcata.com/index.php?name=News&file=article&sid=4369&lang=ara
I’m not sure what their view on Purgatory is.
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Reuben_J
Guest
We can never know for sure what will make us avoid purgatory when we die. We know for certain that that it is caused by unconfessed venial sin and the stain of confessed mortal sin.
Your suggestion is a good start. The principle of what cause purgatory nevertheless need to be addressed while we are alive in order to shorten the period of stay in purgatory after we die. And this is doing penance for our confessed sin. Confession and repentance are necessary for the forgiveness of sin but to address what will cause us to stay in purgatory we need to do more on penance. Penance can range from saying prayers and any kind of good work for the Church and the world.
As Christians we are confident that our stay in purgatory will not be that long if we continue to be in a state of grace and always do penance (good work).
God bless.
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StevieD
Guest
Hi David, Catholics are taught that the souls in Purgatory can help others by their prayers and certainly those who have reached Heaven can do so. So if we apply Masses, prayers and good works to the souls, we can be sure to be repaid by them.
I would recommend anyone curious about Purgatory to look up Maria Simma who dedicated her life to the Holy Souls from an early age and claimed to have received many visits from Souls asking for Masses.
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WorkerPriest
Guest
A book I read recently gave me some pause, regarding the poor souls in Purgatory. I don’t think it carries any particular imprimatur, but seemed to conform to catholic teaching. The title was “Hungry Souls” by Dr. Gerard J.M. van den Aardweg of the Netherlands. It seems to be an assortment of reasonably reliable historical accounts, both older and more recent, of those who have been given the grace to visit our world from Purgatory, asking for the prayers of those who are still battling it out in the Church Militant.
Fascinating and even-handed read. I’d imagine my Orthodox friends might find it similarly thought provoking to the way it hit my Lutheran mind.
Grace and peace.
Fascinating and even-handed read. I’d imagine my Orthodox friends might find it similarly thought provoking to the way it hit my Lutheran mind.
Grace and peace.
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DavidKays
Guest
Hi! Thank you Reuben for your words. It is interesting that God applies a temporary punishment to our sins. I wonder does that apply to sins of ommission as well. I tried to understand why God applies temporary punishment and I came out with an anology that might help. I am a Greek Orthodox christian who believes in the truth about the teaching of Purgatory and I am at times teaching it towards some Orthodox who are opened to it and I am getting very good results. I believe that God is a very good Father ( or Dad ) who applies to our bad behavior or lack of good behavior certain punishments that can be deem temperoral. This temperoral punishment can also apply to sins already confessed which you have mentioned in your post. So God like your own " Dad " will apply certain punishments so as to help you better understand why you need to change. Just like our earthly fathers will disclipline us and punish us " temperory " as well why not the Eternal Father. It makes sense because as our earthly fathers do it to teach us to do better so the Eternal Father does it so that we can also do better. I am very grateful for the Catholic Church and Her teaching on this matter. As Orthodox we do not have this formal teaching in my Church but I hope with better understanding and patience someday all of the Orthodox will benefit from it and thus gain from it. Again thank you for your words.
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DavidKays
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Hi! Thank you Stevie and yes it is quite good that we can receive alot of new friends when we pray for the beloved souls. Orthodox tend to pray more for those they know then for those they do not know. For instance we see that at the Divine Liturgies when all the names mentioned are people we already know. Although it is excellent practice to pray for the departed souls that you do not know Orthodox tend to keep it in the family. Catholic teaching is wonderful and hopefully the Orthodox in time will better understand the need to pray for all the souls. As Orthodox we need to do this as well and the Catholic Church can be a great help and assistance for us so as to lead us into further prayers and understanding for the assistance for all the beloved departed.
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StevieD
Guest
David, I am very glad to hear this. I attended Mass yesterday, All Souls’ Day and the attendance was very low. The poor souls get very little attention from the living and it is, I believe, a great sin of omission and one of which I was guilty for years, I am trying to make up for it now.
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Alexander_Roman
Guest
There is a recent Greek Orthodox Saint from Athens, St Nicholas Planas, (who had the gift of levitation) who used to come into Church with his pockets full of papers with the names of reposed people he was asked to read out during his Proskomide or preparation part of the Divine Liturgy.
That Proskomide would sometime last for a few hours as he read every single last name out . . .
Alex
That Proskomide would sometime last for a few hours as he read every single last name out . . .
Alex
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DavidKays
Guest
Hi! Yes isn’t he a wonderful saint. We can all imitate him in our lives as well. He makes praying for others so personal. Thank you for bringing him up. You must have some devotion to him which is good for I have devotion to him as well. My first real encounter to this recent Orthodox saint was when a monk from Mt.Athos introduced him to me by sending a book about him. I was hooked! We Orthodox need to experience devotions to our Saints like the Catholics do for theirs. We can learn so much from them and try to imitate from them as well. It was St.Nicholas Planas who taught me as well to pray more for those who are living and for those who are departed, never to forget them. That is why he is a saint. Thank you for bringing him up. I have a real painted icon of him and at times will ask for his assistance. He had became my first real spiritual father.
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Alexander_Roman
Guest
Dear David,
(You are named for the Prophet-King David or St David of Thessalonniki perhaps?)
I have his icon in my icon corner and love to ponder how he would pray all night in Church - his servers would worry whether Father would get inspired to pull an all-nighter when he turned to them to ask, “Well, what do you think? Shall we pray through the night?”
Yassous!
Alex
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Reuben_J
Guest
Hi David.
You gave an excellent analogy I think. Glad that you are open to the teaching on purgatory. Like you said, Orthodox believes something similar happen after our death except that they don’t spell it out specifically like the Catholic Church. There are Biblical reference to support purgatory and I thought the idea is very reasonable.
Sure yes, the sins of ommission too. After all they are sins as well. Quite often we can overlook this aspect of our inequity and that always result in us to be unable to live the fullness of what Christian life offers us.
God bless you.
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