Purgatory?

[Fledgling]

Where in scripture does this prayer come from?

Jesus said if we pray this prayer 1,000 souls from purgatory are released: "Eternal Father, I offer Thee the Most Precious Blood of Thy Divine Son, Jesus, in union with the masses said throughout the world today, for all the holy souls in Purgatory, for sinners everywhere, for sinners in the universal church, those in my own home and within my family. Amen."

(PS: I’m not trying to challenge you. I sincerely want to know.)

 

[Catholic1954]

Obviously, this does not come from scripture. It comes from private revelation and we are free to believe it or not, as we choose.

 

[Fledgling]

Obviously, this does not come from scripture. It comes from private revelation and we are free to believe it or not, as we choose.

You’re free to believe or not believe in Purgatory if you choose?

 

[Belloc_Fan]

You’re free to believe or not believe in Purgatory if you choose?

Purgatory is a part of the Catholic Faith. But individuals have claimed prophetic or visionary experiences, and so some (but by no means all) Catholics take stock in additional promises, of the kind to which you refer. These are not a formal part of the Faith, and one is free to believe or not believe (although in some cases, the Church will get involved, particularly if an alleged apparition appears to contradict the Faith).

Put another way, just because someone believes in Purgatory, it doesn’t mean that they necessarily believe that Jesus promised that a certain prayer releases a thousand souls from purgatory.

 

[pablope]

You’re free to believe or not believe in Purgatory if you choose?

Could you name or cite the source of the prayer. Is it from the Pieta prayerbook?

I think Catholic1954 was referring to the prayer, not purgatory. Are you familiar with the Catholic teaching regarding Purgatory?

 

[Irish_Polock]

Where in scripture does this prayer come from?

Jesus said if we pray this prayer 1,000 souls from purgatory are released: “Eternal Father, I offer Thee the Most Precious Blood of Thy Divine Son, Jesus, in union with the masses said throughout the world today, for all the holy souls in Purgatory, for sinners everywhere, for sinners in the universal church, those in my own home and within my family. Amen.”

(PS: I’m not trying to challenge you. I sincerely want to know.)

This is the prayer of St. Gertrude the Great, as others have already said, it was through private revelation and this will not be found amongst Scripture.

 

[Barbkw]

Where in scripture does this prayer come from?

Jesus said if we pray this prayer 1,000 souls from purgatory are released: “Eternal Father, I offer Thee the Most Precious Blood of Thy Divine Son, Jesus, in union with the masses said throughout the world today, for all the holy souls in Purgatory, for sinners everywhere, for sinners in the universal church, those in my own home and within my family. Amen.”

I believe it’s the Divine Mercy Chaplet.

Awful isn’t it, how Christ’s Blood, Catholic Masses and prayers are being offered for the purgation of souls throughout the world?

What a crazy idea.

 

[thistle]

You’re free to believe or not believe in Purgatory if you choose?

You have misunderstood. We must believe in Puragtory.
However, what you were asking about comes from a private revelation and anything from private revelations do not have to be believed.

 

[tbcrawford]

Saint Gertrude was “the Great” because of her single-hearted love for the Sacred Heart of Jesus and the souls in purgatory. Though she was never formally canonized, Pope Clement XII in 1677 directed that her feast be observed throughout the Church.

(1256-1302 A.D.) Few men have merited the title, “the Great”; and fewer women. St. Gertrude of Helfta, her spiritual writings have remained influential up to the present.

Many of her writings are lost, but she left to the world her book The Herald of Divine Love, in which she tells of the visions granted her by our divine Lord. She wrote this small book because she was told that nothing was given to her for her own sake only. Her Exercises is a treatise on the renewal of baptismal vows, spiritual conversion, religious vows, love, praise, gratitude to God, reparation, and preparation for death.

She began to record her supernatural and mystical experiences in what eventually became her Book of Extraordinary Grace (Revelation of Saint Gertrude), together with Mechtilde’s mystical experiences Liber Specialis Gratiae, which Gertrude recorded. Most of the book was actually written by others based on Gertrude’s notes. She also wrote with or for Saint Mechtilde a series of prayers that became very popular, and through her writings helped spread devotion to the Sacred Heart (though it was not so called until revealed to St. Margaret Mary Alocoque).

The Prayer
“Eternal Father, I offer You the Most Precious Blood of Thy Divine Son, Jesus Christ, in union with the Masses said throughout the world today, for all the Holy Souls in Purgatory, for sinners everywhere, those in the Universal Church, in my home, and in my family. Amen”

 

[melchesidechpio]

You’re free to believe or not believe in Purgatory if you choose?

absolutely not. As Catholics we must believe in Purgatory it is doctrine. 1 Corinthians 3:15 Douay-Rheims

If any man’s work burn, he shall suffer loss; but he himself shall be saved, yet so as by fire

 

[tbcrawford]

You’re free to believe or not believe in Purgatory if you choose?

Hi Fledgling it must be quite confusing to understand some of our catholic faith at times! I will attempt to try and explain why we believe in purgatory! I will do this over 2 posts…here goes!

The Catechism of the Catholic Church defines purgatory as a “purification, so as to achieve the holiness necessary to enter the joy of heaven,” which is experienced by those “who die in God’s grace and friendship, but still imperfectly purified” (CCC 1030). It notes that “this final purification of the elect . . . is entirely different from the punishment of the damned” (CCC 1031).

The purification is necessary because, as Scripture teaches, nothing unclean will enter the presence of God in heaven (Rev. 21:27) and, while we may die with our mortal sins forgiven, there can still be many impurities in us, specifically venial sins and the temporal punishment due to sins already forgiven.

Purgatory is the state in which those suffer for a time who die guilty of venial sins, or without having satisfied for the punishment due to their sins…in it the souls are purged or purified from all their stains" (Baltimore Catechism).

The purpose of purgatory is the expiation of sin, or the discharge of the debt of temporal punishment (Trent, Session 6, Canon 30). The Catechism of the Catholic Church speaks about “those who are expiating their sins in purgatory” (paragraph 1475). To “expiate” means to make reparation for an offence or injury. This expiation is achieved through suffering of the soul. Unless completed on earth, “expiation must be made in the next life through fire and torments or purifying punishments.” And again, those “who had not made satisfaction with adequate penance of their sins and omissions are cleaned after death with punishments designed to purge away their debt” (Vatican II, Apostolic Constitution on the Revision of Indulgences).

Many bible references are used

Revelation 21:27 says that

"nothing unclean shall enter heaven; "

(so it can be assumed that if we are still unclean when we die, thanks to God’s amazing grace, we shall still be able to enter heaven thanks to the cleansing fires of purgatory.)

In the First Book of Samuel 31:13, the survivors fasted for the dead, which makes no sense if the deceased were not in a place where that penance (fasting) could do some good for them. In Matthew 12:31, Jesus told the parable about blaspheming the Holy Spirit (not believing that the Holy Spirit can save you, no matter what – the sin of despair), and said that anyone who does blaspheme the Holy Spirit

“will not be forgiven in this age or the age to come” (Matthew 12:32).

Since sins aren’t forgiven in Hell, and those in Heaven are already forgiven for their sins, then this one statement indicates another place after death where sins can indeed be forgiven. When Jesus told the parable of the man beating up others who owed him money, after he himself had been forgiven his debts (Matthew 18:23-34), He said

“And in anger his lord delivered him to the jailers, till he should pay all his debt. So will my heavenly Father do to you, unless each of you forgives his brother from his heart" (Matthew 18:34-35).

In the New Testament, at Pentecost, God the Holy Spirit appeared as non-consuming tongues of fire to the apostles (Acts 2:3). So we see that God and fire can be seen as one and the same.

God Himself appeared to Moses as a non-consuming fire, which didn’t burn the bush (Exodus 3:2). The book of Daniel says that the very throne of God is fire:

“As I looked, thrones were placed and one that was ancient of days took his seat; his raiment was white as snow, and the hair of his head like pure wool; his throne was fiery flames, its wheels were burning fire.” (Daniel 7:9).

And when God speaks, fire issues forth from His mouth:

“A stream of fire issued and came forth from before him; a thousand thousands served him, and ten thousand times ten thousand stood before him; the court sat in judgment, and the books were opened. (Daniel 7:10).

 

[tbcrawford]

Since Martin Luther threw both books of Maccabees out of his Protestant Bible during the sixteenth century Reformation, most Protestants today don’t recognize Maccabees as scripture. However, both 1 and 2 Maccabees are in the Gutenberg Bible, published a century before Luther was born, which proves that the Catholic Church didn’t add them at the Council of Trent after the Reformation; they were taken out by Luther during the Reformation.

1 Corinthians 3:11-15. The apostle Paul writes: “Now if anyone builds on this foundation with gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, straw, each one’s work will become clear; for the Day will declare it, because it will be revealed by fire; and the fire will test each one’s work, of what sort it is.” The Catechism interprets “the fire” as cleansing and purifying, i.e., the soul suffers to make expiation for sin (Catechism, paragraph 1031).

When we die, we undergo what is called the particular, or individual, judgment. Scripture says that “it is appointed for men to die once, and after that comes judgment” (Heb. 9:27). We are judged instantly and receive our reward, for good or ill. We know at once what our final destiny will be. At the end of time, when Jesus returns, there will come the general judgment to which the Bible refers, for example, in Matthew 25:31-32: “When the Son of man comes in his glory, and all the angels with him, then he will sit on his glorious throne. Before him will be gathered all the nations, and he will separate them one from another as a shepherd separates the sheep from the goats.” In this general judgment all our sins will be publicly revealed (Luke 12:2–5).

It is between the particular and general judgments, then, that the soul is purified of the remaining consequences of sin: “I tell you, you will never get out till you have paid the very last copper” (Luke 12:59).

Paul tells us that, when we are judged, each man’s work will be tried. And what happens if a righteous man’s work fails the test? “He will suffer loss, though he himself will be saved, but only as through fire” (1 Cor 3:15). Now this loss, this penalty, can’t refer to consignment to hell, since no one is saved there; and heaven can’t be meant, since there is no suffering (“fire”) there. The Catholic doctrine of purgatory alone explains this passage.

Why would anyone go to purgatory? To be cleansed, for “nothing unclean shall enter [heaven]” (Rev. 21:27). Anyone who has not been completely freed of sin and its effects is, to some extent, “unclean.” Through repentance he may have gained the grace needed to be worthy of heaven, which is to say, he has been forgiven and his soul is spiritually alive. But that’s not sufficient for gaining entrance into heaven. He needs to be cleansed completely.

Prayers for the dead and the consequent doctrine of purgatory have been part of the true religion since before the time of Christ. Not only can we show it was practiced by the Jews of the time of the Maccabees, but it has even been retained by Orthodox Jews today, who recite a prayer known as the Mourner’s Kaddish for eleven months after the death of a loved one so that the loved one may be purified. It was not the Catholic Church that added the doctrine of purgatory. Rather, any change in the original teaching has taken place in the Protestant churches, which rejected a doctrine that had always been believed by Jews and Christians.

It is entirely correct to say that Christ accomplished all of our salvation for us on the cross. But that does not settle the question of how this redemption is applied to us. Scripture reveals that it is applied to us over the course of time through, among other things, the process of sanctification through which the Christian is made holy. Sanctification involves suffering (Rom. 5:3–5), and purgatory is the final stage of sanctification that some of us need to undergo before we enter heaven. Purgatory is the final phase of Christ’s applying to us the purifying redemption that he accomplished for us by his death on the cross.

Hope this is of some help God bless you

 

[Michael2799]

I believe it’s the Divine Mercy Chaplet.

Awful isn’t it, how Christ’s Blood, Catholic Masses and prayers are being offered for the purgation of souls throughout the world?

What a crazy idea.

Doesn’t the idea of a continual sacrificial offering contradict the past tense language of the following scripture?

“And by that will, we have been made holy through the sacrifice of the body of Jesus Christ once for all.” (Hebrews 10:10)

“For by one sacrifice *he has made perfect forever *those who are being made holy.” (Hebrews 10:14)

“Those who are being made holy” = sanctification process… changed life… repentance… desire for godly living…hatred for sin and rejection of all things that are evil out of pure love and gratitude for this incredible gift.

If Christians have been made perfect forever through the blood of Jesus Christ, then where is there room for temporal punishment in purgatory?

 

[Barbkw]

Doesn’t the idea of a continual sacrificial offering contradict the past tense language of the following scripture?

If Christians have been made perfect forever through the blood of Jesus Christ, then where is there room for temporal punishment in purgatory?

The Protestant Reformation necessarily had to abolish the sacramental system.

Your first question is a protestant mischaracterization of the Eucharistic feast.

Your send question is a protestant mischaracterization of Reconciliation.

 

[thetruth0flife]

Doesn’t the idea of a continual sacrificial offering contradict the past tense language of the following scripture?

“And by that will, we have been made holy through the sacrifice of the body of Jesus Christ once for all.” (Hebrews 10:10)

“For by one sacrifice *he has made perfect forever *those who are being made holy.” (Hebrews 10:14)

If Christians have been made perfect forever through the blood of Jesus Christ, then where is there room for temporal punishment in purgatory?

No, not at all. You must read the scriptures carefully. We do become holy but as sinners we are always at risk at falling back into sin. You dont become holy once and remain like that without having the chance of falling back into that sin. All your life in earth is about remaining holy. Accepting Christ doesn’t mean you are holy and will stay like that. There are other factors that are involved when talking about being holy.

The second passage talking “those who are being made holy.” You are being made holy or in the process of purifying your soul. People are being made holy and that implies that people can also not be holy but be followers of christ. There is also the posibility of people not being completely holy or pure when dying and have to go to cleanse themselves in purgatory. Jesus himself said that there would be followers who would believe in him but weren’t holy or lived a double life. Hope this helps. God bless.

 

[Fledgling]

Thanks to all yall!

I do believe in Purgatory, always have, to me it only makes sense.

If no unclean thing shall enter Heaven and you die suddenly without first confessing your sins you’ve committed since your last confession…If Purgatory doesn’t exist then you’d go to hell regardless of living an otherwise Christian life.

I asked a Baptist about this yesterday, You know what he said?..We’re saved regardless. He also said that people are saved regardless of not being Baptized.

I said no way, it can’t be that easy

 

[DebChris]

The prayer itself comes from private revelation. I,000 can mean a very large number, not necessarily exactly 1000.

Christians, regardless of denomination, believe that Jesus died to save us from our sins. Some will ask “When were you saved?” meaning at “At what point in your life did you accept Jesus Christ as your Lord and Savior?” Others point to the event that happened 2000 years ago.
One of the difficult concepts to grasp is that the Mass is celebrated outside of time. It is a perpetual sacrifice to which all of us are joined, even if not physically present at a particular Eucharistic celebration.
As Catholics, we were saved 2,000 years ago, when Jesus died upon the cross. We continue to be saved each and every time the Mass is celebrated anywhere on the earth until the end of time. The prayer can be understood from this point of reference.
Purgatory is a time of purging, a time when a person already destined for heaven has any dross burned away, anything that keeps him from being fully ready. It is by the Blood of the Cross celebrated at every Mass that we are purged, and freed from our sins.

I hope this helps.

 

[tbcrawford]

Thanks to all yall!

I do believe in Purgatory, always have, to me it only makes sense.

If no unclean thing shall enter Heaven and you die suddenly without first confessing your sins you’ve committed since your last confession…If Purgatory doesn’t exist then you’d go to hell regardless of living an otherwise Christian life.

I asked a Baptist about this yesterday, You know what he said?..We’re saved regardless. He also said that people are saved regardless of not being Baptized.

I said no way, it can’t be that easy

You are correct Fledgling and you will be able to inform your friends from other denominations about purgatory.God bless you !

 

[alacoque]

Thanks to all yall!

… I asked a Baptist about this yesterday, You know what he said?..We’re saved regardless. He also said that people are saved regardless of not being Baptized.

I said no way, it can’t be that easy

Well, Fledgling, you can always let your Baptist friend know that, if given the choice between his ‘opinion’ and the words of your (and his!) savior (… unless you are born of water and the spirit, you cannot enter the kingdom…) - you’ll side with the Son of God…

 

[EZRyder]

The Prayer of St. Gertrude the Great
federationofstgertrude.org/Gertrude.htm

Where in scripture does this prayer come from?

Jesus said if we pray this prayer 1,000 souls from purgatory are released: “Eternal Father, I offer Thee the Most Precious Blood of Thy Divine Son, Jesus, in union with the masses said throughout the world today, for all the holy souls in Purgatory, for sinners everywhere, for sinners in the universal church, those in my own home and within my family. Amen.”

(PS: I’m not trying to challenge you. I sincerely want to know.)