This only means you don’t understand scripture and/or the Catholic teaching on what purgatory is and why it is such a wonderful example of Christ’s unlimited mercy.You wont find any evidence of purgatory in the Bible because it isn’t Biblical.
Let me pull up an old article my friend published once.
Jesus died to pay the penalty for all of our sins ( Romans 5:8). Isaiah 53:5 declares," But He was pierced for our transgressions, He was crushed for our iniquities; the punishment that brought us peace was upon Him, and by His wounds we are healed.” Jesus suffered for our sins so that we could be delivered from suffering. To say that we must also suffer for our sins is to say that Jesus’ suffering was insufficient. To say that we must atone for our sins by cleansing in Purgatory is to deny the sufficiency of the atoning sacrifice of Jesus 1 John 2:2). The idea that we have to suffer for our sins after death is contrary o everything the Bible says about salvation.
I liked the article, though I must admit it seemed to very much go towards the direction of “it exists because you can’t disprove it” attitude near the end, all while reinforcing that Christ suffered to give us the chance to suffer, which still is contradictory to the Isaiah quote I posted earlier.This only means you don’t understand scripture and/or the Catholic teaching on what purgatory is and why it is such a wonderful example of Christ’s unlimited mercy.
I would point the OP to this article for starters.
So Paul is saying that some people (who build on Christ but with straw) will suffer on “the Day” (of judgement), though they will be saved.…for no one can lay a foundation other than the one that is there, namely, Jesus Christ. 12 If anyone builds on this foundation with gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, or straw, 13 the work of each will come to light, for the Day * will disclose it. It will be revealed with fire, and the fire (itself) will test the quality of each one’s work. 14 If the work stands that someone built upon the foundation, that person will receive a wage. 15 But if someone’s work is burned up, that one will suffer loss; the person will be saved, * but only as through fire.
Jesus’ suffering doesn’t make our suffering unnecessary or superfluous, but rather it gives our sufferings redemptive value. The verses you have quoted are correct, but in addition, the Catholic church also takes into consideration verses like these -Jesus died to pay the penalty for all of our sins ( Romans 5:8). Isaiah 53:5 declares," But He was pierced for our transgressions, He was crushed for our iniquities; the punishment that brought us peace was upon Him, and by His wounds we are healed.” Jesus suffered for our sins so that we could be delivered from suffering. To say that we must also suffer for our sins is to say that Jesus’ suffering was insufficient. To say that we must atone for our sins by cleansing in Purgatory is to deny the sufficiency of the atoning sacrifice of Jesus 1 John 2:2). The idea that we have to suffer for our sins after death is contrary o everything the Bible says about salvation.
The satisfaction that we make for our sins, however, is not so much ours as though it were not done through Jesus Christ. We who can do nothing ourselves, as if just by ourselves, can do all things with the cooperation of "him who strengthens" us (Phil 4:13). Thus man has nothing of which to boast, but all our boasting is in Christ (1 Cor 1:31, 2 Cor 10:17, Gal 6:14). . . in whom we make satisfaction by bringing forth "**fruits that befit repentance**" (Luke 3:8). These fruits have their efficacy from him, by him they are offered to the Father, and through him they are accepted by the Father."What about this passage ?Bible never says purgatory, and God didn’t ever say that they’re was a middle place where you weren’t really to bad but you weren’t that good. and saying prayers doesn’t release people of their fate even if purgatory did exist.
Plus, whoever posted the group of verses, those aren’t necessarily referring to purgatory? some are even completely irrelevant.
Daniel NEVER talked about purgatory in the Bible, or even came close to relating a subject to it.
God said it was either eternity in hell or eternity in heaven, he never mentioned a little middle place.
A very common interpretation of this passage is that blaspheming the Holy Spirit is equivalent to either passivity or outright challenge of the matters of God and the Holy Spirit.What about this passage ?
Matt 12:31-32
“Therefore I tell you, every sin and blasphemy will be forgiven men, but blasphemy against the Holy Spirit will not be forgiven. And whoever speaks a word against the Son of Man will be forgiven; but He who speaks a word against the Holy Spirit will not be forgiven, either in this life or in the age to come.”
One of our canonized popes has said it can be inferred from this statement of our Blessed Lord and Savior Jesus that there are sins which can be forgiven in “the age to come” or as the KJV biblical translation render the passage, " in this world, neither in the [world] to come.".
So how do you interpret that passage of scripture ? We can’t get into Heaven unless our sins have already been forgiven and expiated, and we can’t get into Hell unless we remain hardened and unrepentant.
So what is our Lord talking about… sins being forgiven in the age/world to come ? Would you be able to interpret that passage ?
OK, but one still ends up acknowledging sins forgiven after death from this passage.A very common interpretation of this passage is that blaspheming the Holy Spirit is equivalent to either passivity or outright challenge of the matters of God and the Holy Spirit.
The only sin not forgiven is the most deadly one of all, blaspheming the Holy Spirit by not accepting it. You go to hell if you don’t accept the spirit, you dont if you do.
Bible also doesn’t say trinity.Bible never says purgatory,…
You mean the TERM isn’t in the Bible. Your right. It isn’t. It’s a theological term that describes how God can be all just and all merciful at the same time.You wont find any evidence of purgatory in the Bible because it isn’t Biblical.
Yea, and Peter didn’t want Jesus to go to Jerusalem where he would suffer. Jesus flipped. I recommend this list of scriptures on SUFFERING. Jesus redeemed the human race, salvation is for those who accept this gift, Jesus is the one who separates the sheep from the goats. Salvation is not determined by private opinions of a few Bible verses.Isaiah 53:5 declares," But He was pierced for our transgressions, He was crushed for our iniquities; the punishment that brought us peace was upon Him, and by His wounds we are healed.” Jesus suffered for our sins so that we could be delivered from suffering.
This is based on a misunderstanding of the doctrine of purgatory. We are all going to die one day. Does that make Jesus’ suffering insufficient too?To say that we must also suffer for our sins is to say that Jesus’ suffering was insufficient.
Purgatory has nothing to do with atoning for sins.To say that we must atone for our sins by cleansing in Purgatory is to deny the sufficiency of the atoning sacrifice of Jesus 1 John 2:2).
Unfortunately you are approaching this belief of the Church as a Protestant who insists that everything that a Christian must believe must be seen in black and white on the pages of a bible. Since you say you are a Catholic then you should know that the Sacred Tradition as well as Sacred Scripture form the basis of all Catholic belief, with the former never contradicting the latter.Bible never says purgatory, and God didn’t ever say that they’re was a middle place where you weren’t really to bad but you weren’t that good. and saying prayers doesn’t release people of their fate even if purgatory did exist.
Plus, whoever posted the group of verses, those aren’t necessarily referring to purgatory? some are even completely irrelevant.
Daniel NEVER talked about purgatory in the Bible, or even came close to relating a subject to it.
God said it was either eternity in hell or eternity in heaven, he never mentioned a little middle place.
*“Purgatory is not, as Tertullian thought, some kind of supra-worldly concentration camp where one is forced to undergo punishments in a more or less arbitrary fashion. Rather it is the inwardly necessary process of transformation in which a person becomes capable of Christ, capable of God * and thus capable of unity with the whole communion of saints. Simply to look at people with any degree of realism at all is to grasp the necessity of such a process. It does not replace grace by works, but allows the former to achieve its full victory precisely as grace. What actually saves is the full assent of faith. But in most of us, that basic option is buried under a great deal of wood, hay and straw. Only with difficulty can it peer out from behind the latticework of an egoism we are powerless to pull down with our own hands. Man is the recipient of the divine mercy, yet this does not exonerate him from the need to be transformed. Encounter with the Lord is this transformation. It is the fire that burns away our dross and re-forms us to be vessels of eternal joy.” Pope Benedict XVI **
The full article containing this quote might be helpful:
Lastly, regarding the scriptural bona fides of Purgatory, it is very clear from the Jewish record that “Gehenna” was not understood in the sense that we today understand “Hell.” For, in the ancient Jewish understanding, “Gehenna” could be either permanent and eternal (i.e., Hell) or it could be a temporary place of purgation and purification. This is seen quite clearly in Luke 16 itself. The element of this story which Protestants seem to consistently overlook is the fact that the Rich Man, who is being tormented in Gehenna, is (a) still in a Covenental relationship with Abraham (e.g. he still calls Abraham “father” and Abraham still calls him “my child”) and, even more notably, and (b) the Rich Man is deeply concerned for his brothers who are still alive! IOW, the Rich Man is still able to express selfless charity; for he asks Abraham to send Lazarus to warn his brothers when it becomes clear that there is nothing Abraham can do to cease his personal suffering. This alone shows us that the Rich Man is not in hell, for, in hell, it is impossible for a soul to be charitable - to express love for another. This is only possible in and through God and some kind of Covenantal relationship with God. Therefore, the Rich Man must be experiencing a period of purgation and purification, i.e., Purgatory.
The rich man was in hell, thats so people reading the Bible can understand, the torments, when he looked up and saw Lazarus in the bosom of Abraham, they were in a place called limbo! Abraham and Lazarus were not in Heaven! no one can enter Heaven until Jesus Died! Rich man was in hell, They(Abraham,Lazarus,Noah,Adam,Eve,etc, were in limbo reason being is that in purgatory there is mercy! whether its 5 seconds or God mitigates the punishments. The rich man received no mercy, therefore hell.Unfortunately you are approaching this belief of the Church as a Protestant who insists that everything that a Christian must believe must be seen in black and white on the pages of a bible. Since you say you are a Catholic then you should know that the Sacred Tradition as well as Sacred Scripture form the basis of all Catholic belief, with the former never contradicting the latter.
Now you have been shown how the Church, as the official interpreter of Scripture, reads the passages indicating the existence of Purgatory, yet you insist that your subjective reading of Scripture necessarily indicates that the Church is wrong in its perennial belief in the purification of souls before they may enter into the fullness of the Beatific Vision.
A reading of this article would show you how the early Church Fathers regarded Purgatory:
envoymagazine.com/backiss…urfathers.html
And, as you say you are a Catholic, this from our present Holy Father should be of help to you unless you persist in your unbelief of the teaching of Christ through His Church:
The full article containing this quote might be helpful:
cin.org/users/james/files/how2purg.htm
Lastly, regarding the scriptural bona fides of Purgatory, it is very clear from the Jewish record that “Gehenna” was not understood in the sense that we today understand “Hell.” For, in the ancient Jewish understanding, “Gehenna” could be either permanent and eternal (i.e., Hell) or it could be a temporary place of purgation and purification. This is seen quite clearly in Luke 16 itself. The element of this story which Protestants seem to consistently overlook is the fact that the Rich Man, who is being tormented in Gehenna, is (a) still in a Covenental relationship with Abraham (e.g. he still calls Abraham “father” and Abraham still calls him “my child”) and, even more notably, and (b) the Rich Man is deeply concerned for his brothers who are still alive! IOW, the Rich Man is still able to express selfless charity; for he asks Abraham to send Lazarus to warn his brothers when it becomes clear that there is nothing Abraham can do to cease his personal suffering. This alone shows us that the Rich Man is not in hell, for, in hell, it is impossible for a soul to be charitable - to express love for another. This is only possible in and through God and some kind of Covenantal relationship with God. Therefore, the Rich Man must be experiencing a period of purgation and purification, i.e., Purgatory.
Wow, for a second there I thought you must be a politician. You really tried to spin that one.A very common interpretation of this passage is that blaspheming the Holy Spirit is equivalent to either passivity or outright challenge of the matters of God and the Holy Spirit.
The only sin not forgiven is the most deadly one of all, blaspheming the Holy Spirit by not accepting it. You go to hell if you don’t accept the spirit, you dont if you do.
Yes, the saints of the Old Testament, such as Abraham, were in what is called the “limbo of the Fathers”. The parable that Our Lord tells of Lazarus indicates that the rich man felt charitable concern for his brothers; there is no such sentiment in Hell where all is anger towards God and self-pity without any concern for another.The rich man was in hell, thats so people reading the Bible can understand, the torments, when he looked up and saw Lazarus in the bosom of Abraham, they were in a place called limbo! Abraham and Lazarus were not in Heaven! no one can enter Heaven until Jesus Died! Rich man was in hell, They(Abraham,Lazarus,Noah,Adam,Eve,etc, were in limbo reason being is that in purgatory there is mercy! whether its 5 seconds or God mitigates the punishments. The rich man received no mercy, therefore hell.
that is true, but remember there are also stories of people in hell who came back to tell people that it does exist, the rich man wanted to warn his brothers not because of love, but because if they end up in the hell, there all going to be cursing each other. and wishing that they were never born etc. read the book the dogma of hell, the rich man was in hell not purgatory.Yes, the saints of the Old Testament, such as Abraham, were in what is called the “limbo of the Fathers”. The parable that Our Lord tells of Lazarus indicates that the rich man felt charitable concern for his brothers; there is no such sentiment in Hell where all is anger towards God and self-pity without any concern for another.