Purgatory

[jpusateri]

And the Bible says He will do it in an instant! I Corinthians 15:52

I believe that God can do all the things he says in a way that helps us. The time passing part doesn’t bother me at all. 400 years in eternity? I don’t think it will surpass God’s ability for me to subjectively experience 400 years in an instant.

 

[MariaG]

Marcopolo,

Protestants will all go thru a purification, also.

I Corinthians 15:50 This I declare, brothers: flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God, nor does corruption inherit incorruption.
51 Behold, I tell you a mystery. We shall not all fall asleep, but we will all be changed, 52 in an instant, in the blink of an eye, at the last trumpet. For the trumpet will sound, the dead will be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.

The difference I see from this thread is that Catholics go to purgatory to work on changing themselves. Protestants are not capable of changing themselves and depend fully on God to chance us.

Lucky for us, God can do it in an instant.

Hi,

The official teaching of the Catholic Church does not specify “time” in the purification process. JPII said that it should be thought of as more of a process than a place, a process that can be instantaneous.

It is frequently explained in terms of a place. That is because it is sometimes easier to think of it that way. We are finite creatures and sometimes understanding the miraculous ways of God become too much unless we put it in terms we understand better.

If you believe you will be purified the instant you die (or even if you think it takes “time” ), you believe in purgatory

Purgatory is just a word used to describe the place/process of Christ’s saving blood perfectly purifying us.

 

[Ginger2]

Very nicely put Maria,

I do not see this thread as having anything more to benefit me. My posts have turned away from trying to understand, and that was the original purpose.

I have started a new thread. One where we can discuss Biblical passages on purgatory. It’s not specifically for helping me gain an understanding of the Catholic point of view, but should be a good learning experience just the same.

 

[Fidelis]

…Catholics sound like we have to perfect ourselves in purgatory. If we haven’t done enough good works on Earth to make up for our sins. Even tho we are forgiven, we still have to pay the penalty.

As another poster correctly noted, those in Purgatory cannot do anything for themselves. That’s why they are sometimes referred to as the “Poor Souls.” The purgation is accomplished by God, aided by the prayers of the rest of us.

400 hundred years in purgatory is a long time. but what about when Jesus returns? Are those who died the day before and would have otherwise spent four hundred years in purgatory going to get out without paying the full penalty? Or will purgatory continue to exist until they all serve their time?

First, there is no “time” in Purgatory. Sometimes in devotional literature you may hear it referred to as such, but the Church has no official position as such. It may be “instantaneously” as you say (though what that means in the afterlife no one can say). Or, it may be something along the lines of St. Peter’s words when he says that for God one day is as a thousand years (whatever *that *may mean in the afterlife). We simply don’t know. We do know that our prayers are helpful for them, and so we do.

Second, St.Thomas Aquinas thinks that those who are in Purgatory on the Last Day and are still in need of purgation will probably experience it in an accelerated and intensified manner. Interestingly enough, he also theorizes that those that are destined for heaven and are alive at the Second Coming may not need Purgatory since those going to heaven at that time will have just experienced the great Tribulation that will immediately precede the Second Coming-- this being sufficient in itself to substitue for Purgatory. Again, however, the Church itself has no official teaching on this, so we really don’t know.

 

[Ginger2]

Fidelis,

So the poor souls in purgatory are dependent on Christians to pray for them. Our prayers hasten their departure to heaven.

That means there are poor souls who may not have as many venial sins to “pay for” that could spend A LOT longer in purgatory then someone who has a lot of friends and relatives offering indulgences on their behave.

They would actually have to wait for someone less deserving to be freed before those indulgences could then be passed on to him or her

And maybe not even then as someone who has a lot of venial sins to pay for should be considered more needed.

.

 

[jmcrae]

Fidelis,

So the poor souls in purgatory are dependent on Christians to pray for them. Our prayers hasten their departure to heaven.

True.

That means there are not poor souls who may not have as many venial sins to “pay for” that could spend A LOT longer in purgatory then someone who has a lot of friends and relatives offering indulgences on their behave.

This is also true, which is why (especially if your children have fallen away from the faith and are not likely to pray for you) it is best to complete one’s purification in this life, rather than wait for the next.

One of the great modern teachers (I think Father Corapi, but I’m not sure) has said, “Don’t aim for Purgatory - you might miss. Aim for highest Heaven, and then be glad if you make it to Purgatory.”

They would actually have to wait for someone less deserving to be freed before those indulgences could then be passed on to him or her

All are equally deserving. But, just like in this life, those who deserve things don’t always get them right away.

And maybe not even then as someone who has a lot of venial sins to pay for should be considered more needed.

I would rather say “to be purified from,” rather than “to pay for” but in essence, yes, that’s correct. I suppose the first thing the souls in Purgatory learn is how to be patient.

 

[Ginger2]

Thank you jm. This thread is now closed as the OP’s question has been answered.

Just kidding. I can’t close the thread. It’s just wishful thinking.

 

[MariaG]

Thank you jm. This thread is now closed as the OP’s question has been answered.

Just kidding. I can’t close the thread. It’s just wishful thinking.

But you can hit the bad post/ attention post sign and then request it to be closed It won’t show up against you as a complaint, or just click on mine and request it to be closed.

 

[MariaG]

Fidelis,

So the poor souls in purgatory are dependent on Christians to pray for them. Our prayers hasten their departure to heaven.

That means there are poor souls who may not have as many venial sins to “pay for” that could spend A LOT longer in purgatory then someone who has a lot of friends and relatives offering indulgences on their behave.

They would actually have to wait for someone less deserving to be freed before those indulgences could then be passed on to him or her

And maybe not even then as someone who has a lot of venial sins to pay for should be considered more needed.

.

See, even I can’t resist

If there is such a thing as being “in” purgatory, all who are there are there with joy, knowing that they will “soon” be with God.

The thinking that someone is “more deserving” is not God’s thinking but ours. It is jealousy, along the line of the Prodigal son. Everyone, will rejoice for each soul “in” heaven, including those “in” purgatory.

Noting that the Church doesn’t teach that people actually spend any “time” in purgatory at all, we just tend to think that way.

 

[rlg94086]

But you can hit the bad post/ attention post sign and then request it to be closed It won’t show up against you as a complaint, or just click on mine and request it to be closed.

Yep. I think I might report MariaG’s post, because I find it quite offensive.

 

[VociMike]

See, even I can’t resist

If there is such a thing as being “in” purgatory, all who are there are there with joy, knowing that they will “soon” be with God.

The thinking that someone is “more deserving” is not God’s thinking but ours. It is jealousy, along the line of the Prodigal son. Everyone, will rejoice for each soul “in” heaven, including those “in” purgatory.

Noting that the Church doesn’t teach that people actually spend any “time” in purgatory at all, we just tend to think that way.

Agreed. When heaven is the final destination, it’s hard to think of any of us as “more deserving”. That’s the lesson in the parable of the workers who all got paid the same at the end of the day no matter when they started (a parable that used to bug me until I “got it” )

 

[Ginger2]

I didn’t mean more deserving. I was just careless with my words.

I don’t know where these buttons are so I’ll just unsubscribe and you all can do what you wish.

 

[MariaG]

I didn’t mean more deserving. I was just careless with my words.

I don’t know where these buttons are so I’ll just unsubscribe and you all can do what you wish.

I understand that you do not wish to participate in the thread anymore, but your statement does beg the Question of what did you mean then?

The button I was referring to is the little triangle like sign in the right hand corner of the top of each post.

If you click on it, it will take you to a page that tells you that it is only for reporting bad posts, but the moderators also allow us to use it to alert them to split off posts for new threads or to request to close a thread by the OP.

God Bless,
Maria

 

[jmcrae]

I just sent in a report.

 

[Michael_Francis]

Thread closed