Purple Heartbreakers

[Thekla]

** Purple Heartbreakers **

By JAMES WEBB
     Arlington, Va.

IT should come as no surprise that an arch-conservative Web site is questioning whether Representative John Murtha, the Pennsylvania Democrat who has been critical of the war in Iraq, deserved the combat awards he received in Vietnam.

After all, in recent years extremist Republican operatives have inverted a longstanding principle: that our combat veterans be accorded a place of honor in political circles. This trend began with the ugly insinuations leveled at Senator John McCain during the 2000 Republican primaries and continued with the slurs against Senators Max Cleland and John Kerry, and now Mr. Murtha.

Military people past and present have good reason to wonder if the current administration truly values their service beyond its immediate effect on its battlefield of choice. The casting of suspicion and doubt about the actions of veterans who have run against President Bush or opposed his policies has been a constant theme of his career. This pattern of denigrating the service of those with whom they disagree risks cheapening the public’s appreciation of what it means to serve, and in the long term may hurt the Republicans themselves.

…

The political tactic of playing up the soldiers on the battlefield while tearing down the reputations of veterans who oppose them could eventually cost the Republicans dearly. It may be one reason that a preponderance of the Iraq war veterans who thus far have decided to run for office are doing so as Democrats.

A young American now serving in Iraq might rightly wonder whether his or her service will be deliberately misconstrued 20 years from now, in the next rendition of politically motivated spinmeisters who never had the courage to step forward and put their own lives on the line.

…James Webb, a secretary of the Navy in the Reagan administration, was a Marine platoon and company commander in Vietnam.

nytimes.com/2006/01/18/opinion/18webb.html?ei=5090&en=f3e1d4cd5b25ed71&ex=1295240400&partner=rssuserland&emc=rss&pagewanted=print

Absolutely. It has been a complete disgrace the way that politicians and their minions who have not served in the military have attacked those who have. Equally disgraceful has been the way that citizen partisans have participated in this sleazy brand of politics.

Look out, Secretary Webb, it’s likely that you are next.

 

[Lurch104]

The only problem with the above is that the charges appear, by Mr. Murtha’s own account, to be true. He stated that he received only a scratch on his cheek and leg requiring NO medical treatment. I would be ashamed to claim a Purple Heart under such conditions. He is not too far removed from Major Frank Burns on the TV sitcom MAS*H claiming a Purple Heart for getting an eggshell caught in his eye while having breakfast.

 

[Thekla]

Lurch104:

The only problem with the above is that the charges appear, by Mr. Murtha’s own account, to be true. He stated that he received only a scratch on his cheek and leg requiring NO medical treatment. I would be ashamed to claim a Purple Heart under such conditions. He is not too far removed from Major Frank Burns on the TV sitcom MAS*H claiming a Purple Heart for getting an eggshell caught in his eye while having breakfast.

Wow. That was fast. Make sure you pluck that boulder out of your own eye. It’s a disgrace what they (and you) do to decorated veterans. You disgrace the nation and yourselves…

 

[NotWorthy]

Thekla,

What was said about Max Cleland’s War Record?

What was said about John Kerry’s (and by whom)?

What was said about John McCain’s War Record?

Notworthy

I don’t need entire articles, but just general summaries.

 

[Matt25]

You could start at 11alive.com/news/news_article.aspx?storyid=42941

Columnist and television commentator Ann Coulter, in a column published this week, said former Senator Max Cleland, who lost both legs and an arm in Vietnam, is no war hero…

“The question should be: Where were you in the war of your generation? Did you take your place in the line? Or did you escape and avoid, by political means, and then cut short your tour of duty to go to Harvard Business School? I mean, John Kerry volunteered,” Cleland recently said on “Hardball With Chris Matthews.”

Coulter countered that Cleland is no Vietnam war hero, just a victim of a tragic, accidental grenade explosion who plays up his amputations for political gain. “If Cleland had dropped a grenade on himself at Fort Dix rather than in Vietnam, he would never have been a U.S. Senator in the first place. Maybe he’d be the best pharmacist in Atlanta,” Coulter said in her column, published on February 11. “He didn’t ‘give his limbs for his country,’ or leave them ‘on the battlefield,’” Coulter said. “There was no bravery involved in dropping a grenade on himself with no enemy troops in sight.”

Cleland was wounded picking up a grenade that someone else had dropped.

And look at usvetdsp.com/mcainmdl.htm

 

[Thekla]

NotWorthy:

Thekla,

What was said about Max Cleland’s War Record?

What was said about John Kerry’s (and by whom)?

What was said about John McCain’s War Record?

Notworthy

I don’t need entire articles, but just general summaries.

Are you limiting me to war record? Because I didn’t say war record and Webb didn’t say war record.

Let’s start with Senator Max Cleland, a triple amputee. Saxby Chambliss’ (R) “campaign” in Georgia said that he was soft on terrorism and defense. They had a television ad that “suggestively showed a photo of the disabled Vietnam vet in sequence with shots of Saddam Hussein and Osama bin Laden.” Of course, Chambliss had avoided military service. Of course.

And the fact that no one in the Republican Party, including my president, put a stop to it, speaks volumes.

 

[NotWorthy]

Thekla:

Are you limiting me to war record? Because I didn’t say war record and Webb didn’t say war record.

Let’s start with Senator Max Cleland, a triple amputee. Saxby Chambliss’ (R) “campaign” in Georgia said that he was soft on terrorism and defense. They had a television ad that “suggestively showed a photo of the disabled Vietnam vet in sequence with shots of Saddam Hussein and Osama bin Laden.” Of course, Chambliss had avoided military service. Of course.

And the fact that no one in the Republican Party, including my president, put a stop to it, speaks volumes.

Yes, I was limiting you to their war record. The way I recall the series of events was:
A) Cleland protests against the war (Something he’s the right to be)
B) Chambliss says Cleland is weak on Terrorism (Again he has a right to make that claim. Did he back it up with Cleland’s voting record to prove it? I thought he did).
C) Cleland and the rest of the Talking Points went to the media and said, “He’s belittling my War Record” or “He’s belittling a War Hero”… “How dare he!”

John’s Kerry’s War debate was with the Swift Boat Veterans, both Republican and Democrats. I don’t recall Bush ever getting into that fray.

John McCain and Bush each accused the other of dirty tricks in North Carolina, but I don’t have any clue what it was about.

Am I close on any of these three?

Notworthy

 

[Thekla]

NotWorthy:

Thekla,

What was said about Max Cleland’s War Record?

What was said about John Kerry’s (and by whom)?

What was said about John McCain’s War Record?

Notworthy

I don’t need entire articles, but just general summaries.

From a politcal standpoint, what was done to McCain is truly horrible. Here’s an example of what was being put out by the “right wing” back in 2000/2001. From Worldnetdaily. One Doug Casey…http://www.worldnetdaily.com/images/spacer.gif

“The problem here is not that McCain didn’t have terrible things done to him for a long time – he did. The problem is that neither he – nor anybody else who was in prison camp – had a choice about whether they were endangered. But medals for heroism are supposed to be given out for actual heroic action, taken willfully and at great personal risk. They shouldn’t be awarded simply because someone survived an involuntary ordeal. And didn’t survive it as well as many others. McCain was quoted as saying “O.K, I’ll give you military information if you will take me to the hospital” four days after his capture and later signed a confession declaring himself a war criminal. And although McCain refused an early release, the word is that he was ordered to do so by his U.S. POW commander.”

 

[NotWorthy]

I guess I need to clarify why I was going in this direction:

As soon as Max Cleland was criticized for his stance on the War, he (and all the Democrats) shouted “How dare they question his patriotism”! Chambliss was not questioning his patriotism… maybe his sanity (no, actually his core beliefs)… but NOT his patriotism.

John Kerry used his War Record to defame the US Army in his bogus War Crimes Speech in the 70’s. He continued to use his War Record to advance his political career, all the way up to his Presidency Run (“John Kerry reporting for duty”!) This left him open for criticism on this very same record. In other words, don’t use your record in Vietnam to show your an expert on Foreign Affairs if you don’t want that record in Vietnam to be examined.

John McCain is across the line accepted as a War Hero. His political motivations have been questioned, but as far as I know, never his war record.

My question is - is there something wrong with questioning our war heroes political motivations??? I don’t get the point.

Notworthy

 

[Thekla]

NotWorthy:

Yes, I was limiting you to their war record. The way I recall the series of events was:
A) Cleland protests against the war (Something he’s the right to be)
B) Chambliss says Cleland is weak on Terrorism (Again he has a right to make that claim. Did he back it up with Cleland’s voting record to prove it? I thought he did).
C) Cleland and the rest of the Talking Points went to the media and said, “He’s belittling my War Record” or “He’s belittling a War Hero”… “How dare he!”

John’s Kerry’s War debate was with the Swift Boat Veterans, both Republican and Democrats. I don’t recall Bush ever getting into that fray.

John McCain and Bush each accused the other of dirty tricks in North Carolina, but I don’t have any clue what it was about.

Am I close on any of these three?

Notworthy

I don’t think you are close. A lot of the McCain thing in SC was a “whisper” campaign about his “instability,” his illegitimate Vietnamese “love” child, and Mr. Bush campaigning with a vet who attacked McCain on vet issues. Mr. Bush remained silent until McCain called him on it.

And we are talking about Saxby Chambliss, who did not serve, and voted “no” to stop the genocide in Kosovo.

As for not seeing Bush get into the fray. Of course not. He’s happy to let others do the dirty work. You’ve never seen him standing up against any of these attacks. That’s Webb’s point.

 

[gilliam]

I don’t think it is very honorable to examine someone’s war record. I contributed to some extent with the examination of Kerry’s but I won’t repeat it with Murtha.

I think what Murtha is doing now is despicable, but I won’t delve into his past to find dirt on him. Especially not in if he was or was not a hero during a war. He served when many did not. Enough said.

 

[Robert_Bay]

Original quote too long

The original poster should know better, and has been warned in the past.

Thread closed