Putting Catholic faith into action on climate change

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Sorry to be a pest. ILM had a second segment to his post last evening on www.climatechangedebate.org As I mentioned, you need to sign in and use your real name to read or post. So here is the second segment:

THE PRESTER JOHN EFFECT [756 words]

By ILM

In the 12th century, stories began circulating in Europe about Prester
John, a rich and powerful Christian king in the mysterious Muslim “Orient”.
Stories about his existence and efforts to contact him persisted for five
more centuries. This is the Prester John Effect - stories circulating
endlessly with nobody questioning the underlying reality.

The same Prester John Effect is still active today. But now the subject
is “global warming”.

Every day we are inundated with climate scare stories. We are told that
Arctic ice is going to disappear in five years, that the poor polar bears
will die out, and that the world is warming dangerously. It’s all, the alarmists
say, because of our emissions of carbon dioxide.

The reality? Arctic ice has returned to its normal extent and is
twice as thick as expected. Antarctic ice is the greatest since satellite
measurement began 30 years ago. Polar bear populations are healthy. The
oceans are slowly cooling, not warming. And most important - world climate
has been cooling for at least six years and stopped warming a decade ago.

Global warming just is not happening.

But the media tell us the opposite on a daily basis, that disaster
is just around the corner. They unquestioningly repeat information from
biased press releases. Nobody is checking facts. Perfect examples of the
Prester John Effect in action.

It is this dubious information that local columnists use as their
source material, along with the deceits in Gore’s error-packed “An
Inconvenient Truth”.

Examples?

Carl Duivenvoorden (April 20) made much of the shattering of the
Wilkins Ice Shelf in Antarctica as a supposed signal of global warming. A
little checking would reveal that the shelf is on the Antarctic Peninsula, a
long and narrow hook of land extending out of the Antarctic Circle toward
South America. The Peninsula is subject to strong tidal effects as well as
passing currents. The shelf broke up. It didn’t melt. It has done the same
many times before and will again. Continental Antarctica, on the other hand,
has been growing colder for decades.

And in his May 4 column, the same writer claimed, without
elaboration, that “…higher levels of CO2 mean a warmer planet”. This
could be true in theory at levels of hundredths, or even thousandths, of a
degree. But in the real world, an increase in CO2 concentration has
virtually zero effect on temperature (and climate). If CO2 level did drive
temperature, then global temperature should still be rising. But it is
dropping.

Peter J. Smith, in a column boldly titled “Climate debate ended
long ago” made the glib assertion that the debate about the cause of
“climate change” is “over”. First, let’s call it “global warming” and not
the weasel words “climate change”, for warming is the supposed danger. (Our
climate has warmed and cooled forever.) Unfortunately for Mr. Smith, the
facts contradict him. Despite strenuous efforts of warmists to stifle that
debate, it is active and getting stronger as more and more facts contradict
the warmist story. Large numbers of climate experts disbelieve the supposed
global warming but are afraid to speak out against the prevailing (and
ignorant) orthodoxy that CO2 is warming our climate. They want to keep their
jobs and funding. Nevertheless, thousands of people with science educations
have indicated that they do not accept the warmist story of climate
catastrophe.

We are told that there is a “scientific consensus” and that 2500
scientists put together the latest IPCC reports. The reality is that the
most important chapter was produced by only 67 people, almost all of whom
were political appointees with the agenda of “proving” global warming. Not
climate scientists. They cherry-picked information to promote their agenda.

Mr. Smith’s assertions are indicative of underlying problems:
incorrect and misleading information is in general circulation and
columnists use that misinformation with righteous certitude. The media then
carry their columns without checking facts. The Prester John Effect.
Furthermore, information in circulation may be years out of date, but it
gets repeated nevertheless. Recycling is good, but not this kind! Endless
repetition of misinformation does not make it true. It is no better than
rumors.

This isn’t just idle discussion. Our governments accept the IPCC reports
as fact and are planning to act on them. This means either tax-and-trade or
just outright limits on CO2 emissions. Since our economy is built on energy,
and much of that energy will continue to come from carbon-based fuels, any
IPCC-based legislation will impoverish us for no useful purpose. Companies
don’t pay taxes. We, their customers, do.

ILM has a wide knowledge of science from two degrees in chemical engineering, and has spent more than 2500 hours researching climate. He has given several public talks on the subject. By establishing Climate Truth Initiative, he is attempting to bring rationality
and science to the discussion of climate.
 
The point is that if there really isn’t a climate change problem, then it is utterly pointless to start taxing and controlling the economy to achieve a goal in an alleged crisis that doesn’t even exist.
Al, I know you are well read on this topic, and you have come to the conclusion that there is no MMCC - and therefore believe that there is no need for action, and in fact action is bad. Therefore you can not entertain the ‘what if’ ----- I know you provide many links, many articles, and honestly I’ve read them and thank you for your passion on this topic, because I do believe your motivation is actually to ensure that there isn’t too great a burden put on the poor.

As skeptical as you are of the information pointing to MMCC - I am that skeptical of information pointing against MMCC -

SO - I know we will not move each other on this topic, but I offer you my respect. I am acting in a way that I believe may make a difference, and would hope others may consider doing likewise.

I will continue to share, here at CAF information I receive from Catholic Coalition on Climate Change catholicclimatecovenant.org/ because I value this perspective and its resources. So, I’m sure we will be meeting again!
 
We are dealing with science. Not science fiction.

Every indication is that the science points to natural causes for climate change. Period.

The bogus computer models (which, by the way, Hansen, Gore et al REFUSE to discuss or debate and which IPCC makes changes to without commenting on the details), the utterly and totally corrupted climate data that gets fed into the computer models (which H, G and IPCC refuse to discuss), and the use of “polar bear stories” to scare the daylights out of children to force their parents into emotional decisions.

The “what if’s” fall into the realm of science fiction and political alarmism. Period.

In a discussion a while back, someone said to me, “yes, but it COULD happen”. And I said, “no”. It never has. And there is no indication at all that it is happening now.
 
Here is more from www.climatechangedebate.org:

This URL leads to a very interesting and persuasive article by Tim Ball.
I’d have copied the article, but the figures would be lost in transmission.

canadafreepress.com/index.php/article/12865

For those unfamiliar with Tim’s name, he’s one of the few genuine
climatologists among us.

[Me talking] … this whole man-made climate change thing has been cooked up. It’s not real. No “what if’s”
 
Here is a post from D. on www.climatechangedebate.org

Consider the following argument.

In science you use the best available data, which changes as instruments change. Since 1978 that is the satellite data. Before that it is the computer-made concoction of bad data called the surface record. What do they show?

The sat data shows two periods of flat temps, 1978 to roughly 1998 and 1998 to today.

These two flat lines are separated by a small but rapid rise, or step up.

I see no evidence of GHG warming here. There is no basis in GHG warming theory for the long term slow buildup of GHGs to manifest itself in a sudden step function. None.

Prior to 1978 the surface record shows no warming since the 1930s. Again, there is no evidence of GHG warming in this data.

Conclusion, there has been no GHG warming in the last 70 years at least. This conclusion is quite sufficient to falsify AGW.

The reason people do not see this falsification is because they continue to use the surface record post-1978, failing to recognize that it is obsolete. In other words, AGW is based on bad data.

I commented that Kahl analyzed 40,000 weather data points collected by the U.S. and the U.S.S.R in the arctic region and he also found no indication of any warming trend.
 
We are dealing with science. Not science fiction.

Every indication is that the science points to natural causes for climate change. Period.
In your opinion.

Others also point to the science that says climate change is real, and that there are man made factors:

(back to the tennis game of posts then? - but no doubt we will discount the sources from each others - let me start with your favorite)

ipcc.ch/
epa.gov/climatechange/science/index.html
aaas.org/news/press_room/climate_change/
belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/environment/scientists-prove-climate-change-is-manmade-14123968.html
scientificamerican.com/article.cfm?id=final-report-humans-cause

This one you might enjoy - 74.125.95.132/search?q=cache:zSWcCZ9hugIJ:ultimateglobalwarmingchallenge.com/entries/Manmade_Emissions_are_Contributing_to_Global_Warming.pdf+scientific+proofs+of+man+made+climate+change&cd=38&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=us&client=firefox-a
**
A Proof that Manmade Emissions are Contributing to Global Warming**

“While we cannot conclude that manmade emissions are solely responsible for the
observed global warming, we can conclude that manmade emissions are
disproportionately responsible by way of changing the naturally occurring balance. We
can conclude that manmade emissions are, at a minimum, responsible for a significant
percentage of the observed greenhouse effect. We have now proven that Earth is warming, that this global warming is due to the greenhouse effect, and that manmade emissions are discernibly, significantly and predictably contributing to the observed greenhouse effect”


*"Likewise, global warming skeptics have rejected the growing mountain of evidence that has been accumulating and, instead, focus on individual reports that fly in the face of all other evidence. This is much easier to do today due to the fact that the Internet allows not only a wide-ranging search, but also allows the posting of opinions and reports without any review for accuracy and validity.

In both of these cases, decisions are not made on the evidence, but are made despite theevidence. The belief of the skeptics in both of these instances is based on what the
individuals want to hear and not based on what scientific research supports. While it is
certainly possible that the majority of the scientific community is wrong and a small
percentage of individuals could be right, it is not scientifically valid for someone to
dismiss the preponderance of evidence simply because they have an emotional
attachment to one conclusion over the other."*
 
EVERYONE is entitled to their own opinion. But no one is entitled to make up their own facts.

The fact of bogus temperature data being used in computer models is real … not opinion.

The fact of computer models being misused is real … not opinion.

There is no way possible to get good valid results when the data that go into the model are way off. No way. Not “could” … Not “what if”.

Further, these are not MY opinion. Not just me; not just one person. These are shared by THOUSANDS of scientists.

More and more scientists every day are getting fed up with the barrage of false science that is coming into the discussion and are going public with what is wrong with the notion of man-caused climate change.

There is a recent thread that goes into a LOT of detail on the facts.

forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?t=357259
 
EVERYONE is entitled to their own opinion. But no one is entitled to make up their own facts.

The fact of bogus temperature data being used in computer models is real … not opinion.

The fact of computer models being misused is real … not opinion.

There is no way possible to get good valid results when the data that go into the model are way off. No way. Not “could” … Not “what if”.

Further, these are not MY opinion. Not just me; not just one person. These are shared by THOUSANDS of scientists.

More and more scientists every day are getting fed up with the barrage of false science that is coming into the discussion and are going public with what is wrong with the notion of man-caused climate change.

There is a recent thread that goes into a LOT of detail on the facts.

forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?t=357259
And many THOUSANDS of scientists have concluded that the information going into the date is not false, and that the findings indicate global climate change is real and that there are man made factors. As I’ve said, I respect that you and others have concluded otherwise, I respect that your motivation also is for the poor - from what I have read, I agree with those who have concluded that there are anthropogenic factors for climate change. Thanks for the link to the other thread. I’ll just continue to share what is offered from the Catholic Coalition on Climate Change here: catholicclimatecovenant.org/ and continue to strive to make personal changes that I believe can help. Peace
 
Those whose true agenda is always eugenics ALWAYS hide behind some warm fuzzy like ‘saving the planet,’ or ‘helping the poor.’
Why Politicized Science is Dangerous
(Excerpted from State of Fear)
Imagine that there is a new scientific theory that warns of an impending crisis, and points to a way out.
This theory quickly draws support from leading scientists, politicians and celebrities around the world. Research is funded by distinguished philanthropies, and carried out at prestigious universities. The crisis is reported frequently in the media. The science is taught in college and high school classrooms.
I don’t mean global warming. I’m talking about another theory, which rose to prominence a century ago.
Here’s more.
 
this of course is all nonsense…if anything the earth is getting cooler…I guess you dont go out much,do your keepers allow that…seriously,this is bad news…in no way is the climate getting warmer…if it did that would be good for then we would have longer growing seasons and more food…oops,sorry cant use logic in here now can we? I have several sites …worldnetdaily.com that have an ongoing debate on this topic with hundreds of scientists who say the opposite of what you and the establishment say!..all of this is for the pro-aborts to shriek for less humans…lets all jog or use bikes for the store…of course you and our betters will drive by in their huge limos and tanks,nodding approval that we commoners just cant be let alone a minute…we just ruin this lovely planet now dont we! back in 1904 Pres.Theodore Roosevelt passed the Reclamation act…which placed into public use millions of acres of useless land,the money received from sale of this gov.land went into irrigation and soon ,when the american canal was finished in Panama…this once usless land became productive…so please…another cold spring and see how the temps are lower then normal…sorry you have an agenda and I just went and poked holes in it…lets talk next on aids and how we should spend millions on a behavorial disease that is like VD etc…now that also tugs at ones heart…wasnt that something about MJ and his hair catching fire…he is such a role model for kids now isnt he…
 
Thousands of scientists support man-made global warming?

I don’t think so, Tim.

rightsidenews.com/200907115419/energy-and-environment/un-ipcc-says-global-warming-big-deception.html
“As a final note, on the quote: “It is a blatant lie put forth in the media that makes it seem there is only a fringe of scientists who don’t buy into anthropogenic global warming…” It’s interesting to note that this has actually been studied tigger.uic.edu/~pdoran/…_final.pdf, and in fact, statistically, it is a “fringe” that deny global warming, at least among those actively studying it. I’m not sure what this says about the scientific community, but it should certainly be taken into account when talking about global warming.”

This is from the follow up to this post that you’ve shared -
 
Thank you Corki for a very thoughtful response - yes it is the response that matters, and I don’t think that there is anything in the information from the Catholic Coalition on Climate Change that would imply otherwise. And I certainly agree it is COMPLICATED and that the issues of HOW to address this are up in the air - it is just that when so much energy is put into denying MMCC it removes the potential for a moderate - poor/vulnerable centered approach to the question -

From what I can see some of the issues are about balancing long term benefit against short-term challenges - and if one accepts MMCC than these may prove to be worth it - if one does not accept MMCC than the actions can not be justified.
I think the effort is expended when Catholics are told that the only way to put Catholic faith in action involves accepting MMCC, which is the stand the CCCC seems to be taking.

Your final statement is one that, in my opinion, bristles many Catholic sensibiltiies. Those short-term challenges, as you call them, involve driving many of the poor into destitution, putting a stranglehold on developing nations to reach technological maturity, and putting millions of dollars into “clean” industries which are virtually all in developed nations, and owned by the world’s wealthiest people. I am just not willing to accept that thousands or millions of people have to become destitue or die in order to save the planet.
 
I think the effort is expended when Catholics are told that the only way to put Catholic faith in action involves accepting MMCC, which is the stand the CCCC seems to be taking.

Your final statement is one that, in my opinion, bristles many Catholic sensibiltiies. Those short-term challenges, as you call them, involve driving many of the poor into destitution, putting a stranglehold on developing nations to reach technological maturity, and putting millions of dollars into “clean” industries which are virtually all in developed nations, and owned by the world’s wealthiest people. I am just not willing to accept that thousands or millions of people have to become destitute or die in order to save the planet.
I think you speak very poignantly here, Corki, and you make extremely valid points.
Elise has embraced the CCCC’s stand on the issue because she is a faithful daughter of the Church and her Bishops have endorsed their position.
She speaks with as much purity of intention and zeal for the good that many have done on this thread-despite the differences of opinion on the scientific evidence of our Earth’s changing conditions. The prevailing consensus seems to be our own personal response to God’s call to be good stewards of our resources and to care for those most in need. We* can all do that in our own way*, based on our own convictions…but the politics are even more* tenuous* than the climate-in the end-and we should never let politics cloud our vision, as Catholics, of the “new Heavens and the new Earth” that await us … and strive in the meantime to "restore all things in Christ…"
God Bless.
 
Important read: MAJOR problems discussed with IPCC computer modeling for climate change/ global warming:

rocketscientistsjournal.com/2009/03/_internal_modeling_mistakes_by.html

IPCC’S FATAL ERRORS

INTERNAL MODELING MISTAKES BY IPCC ARE SUFFICIENT
TO REJECT ITS ANTHROPOGENIC GLOBAL WARMING CONJECTURE
ALBEDO REGULATES CLIMATE, NOT THE GREENHOUSE EFFECT.
CO2 HAS NO MEASURABLE EFFECT ON CLIMATE.​

FATAL ERRORS IN IPCC’S GLOBAL CLIMATE MODELS

Gotta read this.
 
I think you speak very poignantly here, Corki, and you make extremely valid points.
Elise has embraced the CCCC’s stand on the issue because she is a faithful daughter of the Church and her Bishops have endorsed their position.
She speaks with as much purity of intention and zeal for the good that many have done on this thread-despite the differences of opinion on the scientific evidence of our Earth’s changing conditions. The prevailing consensus seems to be our own personal response to God’s call to be good stewards of our resources and to care for those most in need. We* can all do that in our own way*, based on our own convictions…but the politics are even more* tenuous* than the climate-in the end-and we should never let politics cloud our vision, as Catholics, of the “new Heavens and the new Earth” that await us … and strive in the meantime to "restore all things in Christ…"
God Bless.
Thank you Gabriella San S - and this is why I believe that the information that is being put out by the Catholic Coalition on Climate Change belongs here for a discussion on CAF - the discussion of the science of global climate changes seems to become so politicized that it makes it difficult for many to consider the possibilities that perhaps personal action should be taken - then discussions on policy, what policy will be best for the poor and most vulnerable of our world, not just the developed nations, can take place. peace
 
Important newsletter … a must read for anyone even remotely interested in the issue of climate change/ global warming:

sepp.org/Archive/weekwas/2009/TWTW_July%2011,%202009.pdf

It is published more or less weekly depending on travel schedules, etc.

You can get your own personal subscription by scrolling to the bottom and requesting one.

The current issue, July 18, is not yet in the archives.
 
Important newsletter … a must read for anyone even remotely interested in the issue of climate change/ global warming:

sepp.org/Archive/weekwas/2009/TWTW_July%2011,%202009.pdf

It is published more or less weekly depending on travel schedules, etc.

You can get your own personal subscription by scrolling to the bottom and requesting one.

The current issue, July 18, is not yet in the archives.
Sepp.org in their own words "Founded by atmospheric physicist and global-warming skeptic S. Fred Singer" - not an impartial organization - has already come to a conclusion and offers only that which supports that conclusion - no better Al than those who you berate that only share that which supports MMCC.
 
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