Putting Catholic faith into action on climate change

[Al_Masetti]

The inconvenient truth is that every week more and more evidence emerges that climate change is naturally occurring. Refusal to consider that evidence is a denial of science.

By the way, Singer is a scientist. Gore is not.

Anyone seriously interested in this issue would be open to reading Singer’s newsletter.

 

[Sailor_Kenshin]

Global warming has become a new religion. No one is supposed to question whether it is a fact. I did in the December 2004 issue of The DeWeese Report (“There is no man-made global warming,” Volume 10, Issue 12). For my trouble I was labeled a “moron,” a “liar;” one who wants to “blow up the world,” and just plain “evil” to name a few from a mass of mail I received.

Who said this? But wait, there’s more.

Sad to see that many people have still swallowed the lie, hook, line, and sinker. Oh, wait, can’t go fishing! You’re disrespecting the environment!

 

[4elise]

“We … call for a civil dialogue and prudent and constructive action to protect God’s precious gift of the earth’s atmosphere with a sense of genuine solidarity and justice for all God’s children.”
—U.S. Catholic Bishops

What are the moral implications of climate change? Who is most impacted? What should the Catholic community do? The Catholic Coalition on Climate Change was launched in 2006 to help the U.S. Conference of Catholic Bishops (USCCB) and the Catholic community address these issues.

Learn about Catholic Principles and Teachings applied to the issue of global climate change:

* Prudence—thoughtful, deliberate, and reasoned action
* Poverty—concern for those least able to bear the burden
* The Common Good—promotion of solidarity over self-interest

Catholic Coalition on Climate Change supports and complements USCCB’s Office of Social Development and World Peace and the bishops’ Environmental Justice Program. The Coalition is funded with generous assistance from the National Religious Partnership for the Environment

catholicsandclimatechange.org/

 

[bobzills]

It’s interesting to note that this has actually been studied tigger.uic.edu/~pdoran/…_final.pdf, and in fact, statistically, it is a “fringe” that deny global warming, at least among those actively studying it. I’m not sure what this says about the scientific community, but it should certainly be taken into account when talking about global warming.-

I don;t know if this is what you think, or if this is a quote from someone else. But in any case, it is complete nonsense. Freeman Dyson, a famous theoretical physicist and mathematician, has said: “I’m not saying the warming doesn’t cause problems, obviously it does. Obviously we should be trying to understand it. I’m saying that the problems are being grossly exaggerated. They take away money and attention from other problems that are much more urgent and important. Poverty, infectious diseases, public education and public health. Not to mention the preservation of living creatures on land and in the oceans.” See his entry in wikipedia:“Dyson has proposed that whatever inflammations the climate was experiencing might be a good thing because carbon dioxide helps plants of all kinds grow. His caveat is that if CO2 levels soar too high, they could be soothed by the mass cultivation of specially bred “carbon-eating trees”. He calculates that it would take a trillion trees to remove all carbon from the atmosphere, which he believes in principle is quite feasible"

 

[4elise]

I don;t know if this is what you think, or if this is a quote from someone else. But in any case, it is complete nonsense. Freeman Dyson, a famous theoretical physicist and mathematician, has said: “I’m not saying the warming doesn’t cause problems, obviously it does. Obviously we should be trying to understand it. I’m saying that the problems are being grossly exaggerated. They take away money and attention from other problems that are much more urgent and important. Poverty, infectious diseases, public education and public health. Not to mention the preservation of living creatures on land and in the oceans.” See his entry in wikipedia:“Dyson has proposed that whatever inflammations the climate was experiencing might be a good thing because carbon dioxide helps plants of all kinds grow. His caveat is that if CO2 levels soar too high, they could be soothed by the mass cultivation of specially bred “carbon-eating trees”. He calculates that it would take a trillion trees to remove all carbon from the atmosphere, which he believes in principle is quite feasible"

Sigh … It is hard to clarify a post several pages later… But I posted this beceause it was part of the content on a link provided by Al M - WHICH seems to contridict the point I thought he was trying to make???

 

[bobzills]

Sigh … It is hard to clarify a post several pages later… But I posted this beceause it was part of the content on a link provided by Al M - WHICH seems to contridict the point I thought he was trying to make???

Whatever. The statement as quoted did not make sense to me for the reasons given.

 

[Calliso]

I thought I would post some more here. Anyway here is something on how we know the recent increase in CO2 is from humans and not the oceans or some other natural co2 force. It has to to with isotopes it is explained more here. realclimate.org/index.php/archives/2004/12/how-do-we-know-that-recent-cosub2sub-increases-are-due-to-human-activities-updated/

This link also helps debunk the myth that it comes from the ocean. scholarsandrogues.wordpress.com/2007/07/23/anti-global-heating-claims-a-reasonably-thorough-debunking/#m2

Also about cosmic rays and clouds… realclimate.org/index.php/archives/2004/12/recent-warming-but-no-trend-in-galactic-cosmic-rays/

arxiv.org/PS_cache/arxiv/pdf/0706/0706.4294v1.pdf

 

[Corki]

“We … call for a civil dialogue and prudent and constructive action to protect God’s precious gift of the earth’s atmosphere with a sense of genuine solidarity and justice for all God’s children.”
—U.S. Catholic Bishops

From what document are you quoting the USCCB?

What are the moral implications of climate change? Who is most impacted? What should the Catholic community do? The Catholic Coalition on Climate Change was launched in 2006 to help the U.S. Conference of Catholic Bishops (USCCB) and the Catholic community address these issues.

This is disturbing. Did the USCCB establish the CCCC as an advisory arm? If not, they are not in any position to advise the USCCB,

Catholic Coalition on Climate Change supports and complements USCCB’s Office of Social Development and World Peace and the bishops’ Environmental Justice Program. The Coalition is funded with generous assistance from the National Religious Partnership for the Environment

Don’t you think it curious that if the USCCB was to support a Catholic organization, it would do so by way of the National Religious Partnership for the Environment by way of the Environmental Justice Program?

 

[4elise]

From what document are you quoting the USCCB?

This is disturbing. Did the USCCB establish the CCCC as an advisory arm? If not, they are not in any position to advise the USCCB,

Don’t you think it curious that if the USCCB was to support a Catholic organization, it would do so by way of the National Religious Partnership for the Environment by way of the Environmental Justice Program?

I invite you to visit their web site and draw your own conclusion…I’m not sure what you are asking - I for one am happy with this resource

 

[Corki]

I invite you to visit their web site and draw your own conclusion…I’m not sure what you are asking - I for one am happy with this resource

I don’t mean to be argumentative but you posted the quote identified as being from the USCCB. It is not unreasonable to expect you to provide a citation.

I am glad that you like the website of the CCCC and I am sure they are too. But you stated that they are advisors to the USCCB. By whose authority are they advisors? That is a pretty powerful postion for any organization to be in - advising all of the nation’s bishops. To get that role, they must have been appointed by a very high authority in the Church. I can’t seem to find who that may be on the CCCC website.

 

[bobzills]

Anyway here is something on how we know the recent increase in CO2 is from humans and not the oceans or some other natural co2 force. QUOTE]
All that is needed is to plant more trees and green plants which will eat the CO2 and purify the air.

 

[4elise]

I don’t mean to be argumentative but you posted the quote identified as being from the USCCB. It is not unreasonable to expect you to provide a citation.

I am glad that you like the website of the CCCC and I am sure they are too. But you stated that they are advisors to the USCCB. By whose authority are they advisors? That is a pretty powerful postion for any organization to be in - advising all of the nation’s bishops. To get that role, they must have been appointed by a very high authority in the Church. I can’t seem to find who that may be on the CCCC website.

the copy I posted was directly from their web site --I’d be happy to try to find the answers you are asking and will post it here

 

[4elise]

the copy I posted was directly from their web site --I’d be happy to try to find the answers you are asking and will post it here

“We … call for a civil dialogue and prudent and constructive action to protect God’s precious gift of the earth’s atmosphere with a sense of genuine solidarity and justice for all God’s children.”

This is on the Catholic Coalition Climate Change web site - and I found it in other places, for example the diocese of Detroit: vocationsdetroit.org/NR/exeres/3635194B-E54C-49A9-99B1-A83B71F9BB6D.htm?wbc_purpose=Basic&NRMODE=Unpublished and also attributed to the United States Conference of Catholic Bishops. And given the locations, I believe them to be trustworthy sources of the quote from the USCCB

As for the Catholic Coalition on Climate Change being advisors to the USCCB - again, any copy I posted was from their own web site, and since they were launched bu the USCCB, then by the authority of the bishops is how I read it…

Again, from the web site:
"Climate change provides an opportunity to act with courage and creativity as individuals, as people of faith, as a nation. As a wealthy nation and as the top contributor to greenhouse gases, we in the United States must help to shape responses that serve not only our own interests but those the of the entire human family. The Coalition assists the Catholic community in linking personal stewardship and care for creation with our moral responsibilities to practice solidarity."

 

[Ender]

What are the moral implications of climate change?

There aren’t any.

This is what makes the bishops’ involvement in this issue so disturbing although quite frankly I suspect this is much more the work of some committee in the USCCB pushing a personal agenda than it is a thoughtful response of the bishops. In any event - and this is an entirely separate point - nothing that emanates from the USCCB has any binding authority. It is nonetheless quite disappointing to see their involvement as it makes it seem as if there is in fact some question of morality involved in the position one takes on a scientific argument.

What should the Catholic community do?

The “Catholic community” should do nothing at all as this is not a Catholic issue. Individual Catholics may do whatever they choose.

The Catholic Coalition on Climate Change was launched in 2006 to help the U.S. Conference of Catholic Bishops (USCCB) and the Catholic community address these issues.

Well, since there isn’t a moral question here it really doesn’t matter what the CCCC says since it doesn’t even matter what the USCCB says (on this topic at least).

Ender

 

[4elise]

There aren’t any.

This is what makes the bishops’ involvement in this issue so disturbing although quite frankly I suspect this is much more the work of some committee in the USCCB pushing a personal agenda than it is a thoughtful response of the bishops. In any event - and this is an entirely separate point - nothing that emanates from the USCCB has any binding authority. It is nonetheless quite disappointing to see their involvement as it makes it seem as if there is in fact some question of morality involved in the position one takes on a scientific argument.
The “Catholic community” should do nothing at all as this is not a Catholic issue. Individual Catholics may do whatever they choose.
Well, since there isn’t a moral question here it really doesn’t matter what the CCCC says since it doesn’t even matter what the USCCB says (on this topic at least).

Ender

I respectfully disagree.

I am grateful for the voice of the Church on issues that we are facing today, and while you may suspect something other than a voice for the poor here, that is all I hear and understand from this source.

 

[Corki]

the copy I posted was directly from their web site --I’d be happy to try to find the answers you are asking and will post it here

You did not show it as coming from anyplace other than the US Bishops. I tried to google it and only found it on climate/environmentalist websites, not in any original USCCB document. Was the rest of your post yours or did you leave out the quotation marks/citations?

 

[4elise]

You did not show it as coming from anyplace other than the US Bishops. I tried to google it and only found it on climate/environmentalist websites, not in any original USCCB document. Was the rest of your post yours or did you leave out the quotation marks/citations?

The quote is on the Catholic Coalition Climate Change - catholicsandclimatechange.org/ and the web site - sites the USCCB - and since the USCCB is listed as a partner with the CCCC perhaps this quote was written specifically for this web site, or another supporting document for CCCC, this is what I would surmise since I too wasn’t able to find it in any other original type listing, i.e. part of a press release, or other document.

 

[Corki]

I respectfully disagree.

I am grateful for the voice of the Church on issues that we are facing today, and while you may suspect something other than a voice for the poor here, that is all I hear and understand from this source.

I am sorry that after all these pages you are still missing an important point. The CCCC is NOT by any stretch of the imagination the “voice of the Church”.

Care for the environment and care for the poor are important social issues. But the Church does not dictate HOW we care for them. If the Church does not insist that our care for the poor be through support of Catholic Relief Services, an official arm of the Church, she certainly isn’t going to insist that our support of the environment be through CCCC, an organization that is not a part of the Church and which has a distant relationship with one USCCB committee.

I do not doubt that the CCCC is concerned for the poor. But I remain unconvinced that its opinion of how to protect the poor against the actions of governments is the correct one.

In any event - and this is an entirely separate point - nothing that emanates from the USCCB has any binding authority.

Well, since there isn’t a moral question here it really doesn’t matter what the CCCC says since it doesn’t even matter what the USCCB says (on this topic at least).

Ender

As I understand it, the only time the USCCB acts officially is when it acts upon an issue at its semianual meeting. The only time such action is binding on the Bishops themselves or on Catholics in America is when the USCCB votes unanimously and/or the Vatican accepts the action. For example, the GIRM adaptations for the US were not approved unanimously but once the Vatican put its “stamp of approval” on them, they were binding.

As soon as someone can show me where the USCCB voted upon the issue of Climate Change and approved unanimously a course of action for all Catholics in the US, I will accept the “voice of the Church” argument. The endoresement of a program run by a committee that is one part of the USCCB doesn’t hold any more weight than any one else’s educated opinion.

 

[Corki]

The quote is on the Catholic Coalition Climate Change - catholicsandclimatechange.org/ and the web site - sites the USCCB - and since the USCCB is listed as a partner with the CCCC perhaps this quote was written specifically for this web site, or another supporting document for CCCC, this is what I would surmise since I too wasn’t able to find it in any other original type listing, i.e. part of a press release, or other document.

The USCCB could not provide a quote “specifically for this web site”. I surmise that the quote may have come from a single Bishop or a committee of the USCCB and the CCCC is making the error of attributing that to the USCCB as a whole. It is a similar error as the one being made on this thread that any organization with the name Catholic in it is a voice for the Church.

The whole site seems to be confused, whether purposefully or accidentally. For example, they list the USCCB as a partner but when you follow the links, it appears that it is only the USCCB’s Office of Social Development and World Peace (not even a committee) and the office’s Environmental Justice Program that are involved with the CCCC.

 

[4elise]

I am sorry that after all these pages you are still missing an important point. The CCCC is NOT by any stretch of the imagination the “voice of the Church”.

Care for the environment and care for the poor are important social issues. But the Church does not dictate HOW we care for them. If the Church does not insist that our care for the poor be through support of Catholic Relief Services, an official arm of the Church, she certainly isn’t going to insist that our support of the environment be through CCCC, an organization that is not a part of the Church and which has a distant relationship with one USCCB committee.

I do not doubt that the CCCC is concerned for the poor. But I remain unconvinced that its opinion of how to protect the poor against the actions of governments is the correct one.

As I understand it, the only time the USCCB acts officially is when it acts upon an issue at its semianual meeting. The only time such action is binding on the Bishops themselves or on Catholics in America is when the USCCB votes unanimously and/or the Vatican accepts the action. For example, the GIRM adaptations for the US were not approved unanimously but once the Vatican put its “stamp of approval” on them, they were binding.

As soon as someone can show me where the USCCB voted upon the issue of Climate Change and approved unanimously a course of action for all Catholics in the US, I will accept the “voice of the Church” argument. The endoresement of a program run by a committee that is one part of the USCCB doesn’t hold any more weight than any one else’s educated opinion.

Thank you, and for clarification, **I really do not miss the point. ** And have had this discussion earlier in the thread, but am happy to again offer clarification.

Perhaps I have given the impression that I thought that the direction was mandated under penalty of sin, I am under no impression that there is any ‘mandate’ from the Church on ‘how’ we should act in response to climate change. I am however grateful for the information and their leadership. I value the educated opinion presented, you obviously disagree.

As you say - we are under no ‘mandate’ to support any specific action, and in fact many people of faith have come to different conclusions and believe no action is warranted.

I - here speaking for myself as I have tried to do in all my posts - am very grateful that the Catholic Coalition on Climate Change exists, the fact that the USCCB is a partner - **for me **- adds weigh to their call to action as does the list of other Catholic groups / organizations / leaders, who are also partners with CCC in sharing this information with individuals and parishes:

This directly from their web site:

Partners

U.S. Conference of Catholic Bishops
Social Development and World Peace/Environmental Justice Program
Catholic Campaign for Human Development
Migration and Refugee Services of the USCCB
Catholic Relief Services
National Council of Catholic Women
Catholic Health Association of the United States
Catholic Charities USA
National Catholic Rural Life Conference
Association of Catholic Colleges and Universities
Franciscan Action Network
Carmelite NGO
Leadership Conference of Women Religious
Conference of Major Superiors of Men

So - I am not under any impression that the 'Church; is telling us we need to respond in any specific way - or not respond at all - we are being given leadership in being reminded that ANY action must have the needs of the poor and most vulnerable at it’s heart.

Since from what I have read and have come to believe that Global Climate Change is real and that our actions have impacted it - I (again just speaking for myself) am trying to take personal action and will work to invite others to consider that their actions too may make a difference. Obviously, anyone can ignore me, the CCCC, the USCCB, even the Holy Father unless he is speaking Ex Cathedra - and believe and act as you wish.

I really don’t think that those of us in developed countries will be that drastically impacted by climate change - it is those in developing countries, where malaria will kill more children, where potable water will become less available for families, so, I’ve tried to make personal changes, and again - try to have a dialogue with other Catholics because I know that this faith community actually cares about a child in Zimbabwe - not just our own families. Peace