Putting Catholic faith into action on climate change

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The actions that I have seen endorsed on the Catholic Coalition on Climate Change are:
(I do not see where you are seeing something endorsed either directly or implicitly that may hurt the poor?)

** Reflection and Prayer
** Education
** Stewardship
** Solidarity
  1. Recycle
  2. Wash clothes in cold water.
  3. Use reusable containers and utensils for leftovers
  4. Fix or replace leaky pipes, heaters, generators, and appliances.
  5. Consider replacing incandescent light bulbs with more energy efficient
    ones.
  6. Buy local.
  7. Carpool
  8. Take a walk.
  9. Eat your vegetables.
  10. Plant a tree.
  11. Assess your home energy use and learn how you can
    reduce energy costs and benefit the environment, of Energy.
Take Action - to advocate that members of the House Energy Commerce Committee and dedicate resources in the American Clean Energy and Security Act of 2009, to protect people living in poverty
Reflection and prayer, education, stewardship, solidarity, taking a walk, planting trees, eating vegetables, going vegan, are non-controversies. Why would we need a website for that? Why would we need a Catholic Coalition on Climate Change for those things? I’m still unsure who started the coalition, who runs its website, who is on the board of directors, who sets policy.
 
Reflection and prayer, education, stewardship, solidarity, taking a walk, planting trees, eating vegetables, going vegan, are non-controversies. Why would we need a website for that? Why would we need a Catholic Coalition on Climate Change for those things? I’m still unsure who started the coalition, who runs its website, who is on the board of directors, who sets policy.
Might you be suggesting the use of critical thinking and a need to question trendy things -both in the larger society and within the Church?
 
Jim G, take note. This is the danger that I sense among the eco-zealots, however well intended.

“Zeal without knowledge is always less useful and effective than informed zeal, and is very often dangerous!”

– St. Bernard of Clairvaux
 
Ummmmm… and your position is that concern for God’s creation is not in keeping with Catholic values - or do I detect a note of sarcasm?
Whatever you may say about the propriety of each of us acting in accord with his own view of what works, the comment above is, I think, more descriptive of your opinion: those who don’t view the world as you do do so because they don’t care for “God’s creation.” This is also what is implied by the USCCB involvement in this issue and I oppose it because it is wrong.
Is it a moral imperative to care for creation? (post 461)
Here it is again, your assumption that others don’t care for creation.
if we put our heads in the sand or cover our ears and say ‘its not happening, its not happening’ we won’t have a voice at the table. (#456)
Again, you assume that we disagree with you because we’ve chosen to ignore the issue rather than confront it.
Do our actions keep the poor and most vulnerable at the heart … or are we only worried about preserving our own way of life to their determent? (#453)
This is the perception that runs through most of your posts: you care about the poor and we only care about ourselves. This is an uncharitable assumption.
You do not agree MMCC is real, and therefore I agree — your actions / or lack of actions / are in keeping with an appropriate moral response to your belief.
You may concede this point intellectually but emotionally you still cling to the opinion that you care and we don’t. If you simply assumed that we care as much as you do then this thread would die as it would then be obvious that there is no specifically Catholic response to global warming. You keep this thread alive by your belief that your position is not just scientifically valid but morally superior to those who reject the theory of AGW.

Ender
 
I believe that individuals can make a great difference by making changes in how we consume and participate in society. We’ve given up meat, poultry, fish, eggs, dairy, silk, wool, etc… (gone vegan ;)) to do what we can to reduce our contribution, as we learned about the impact of factory farming on the environment.

What action do you see appropriate for individuals and groups?
Why do you think that the Government should not support change?
In my opinion, whatever it’s worth (and it may be nothing) those things you are doing are fine for you. They hurt no one (I assume you have figured out how to get adequate nutrition from your diet) and, to the extent you do not consume animal products, that leaves some quantity of them, however small, for others. At least theoretically it does.

But there is another side to the equation. I raise cattle in an area in which crop agriculture is virtually impossible due to rugged terrain, low soil fertility and occasional droughtiness. The only things this area will grow well are trees and grass, and it does both admirably. People can’t eat grass, nor can we eat trees. The nutrients are locked up in cellulose, and we can’t digest them. Grass can feed no one. Cattle, however, can digest cellulose and produce highly nutritious food from it. Trees can be nurtured to maturity, then turned into furniture and building materials.

I like to think, and do think, that I am adding to the food supply. Not everyone is a vegan. Not everybody has to be a vegan. And vast tracts of food-supplying area would produce nothing useful to mankind if everyone was a vegan. I like to think of the children, particularly, as growing strong bodies from eating what I produce. I like to think of the people who can relax at the end of the day on a chair of strong oak. I like to think of family meals being served on a table of black walnut.

But I do have a fairly hefty carbon footprint. I’ll admit it. You could nurture only a tiny grove of trees by hand. With my machinery, I can improve acres and acres of forest, so the trees will grow fast and straight and healthy, and produce acorns, walnuts, hickory nuts, wild cherries, persimmons and elderberries. I even leave a honey locust here and there because their pods are highly nutritious for wildlife, notwithstanding that they’re useless for timber and that too many of them make a thorny thicket. With the culled trees, I build piles that wildlife can shelter in. Some goes to neighboring families who burn wood to keep their families warm for free.

But I do operate my machinery, becuase if I did not, very little of anything I produce would be produced. My cattle are 100% grass fed, by the way.

And my conscience is clear as regards all of that.

I think sometimes we don’t take proper account of the “production” end of things, and the obligation I think we should have to be productive if our circumstances permit us to do it. Yes, productive to the point of surplus, because it is that surplus which maintains those of us who are not fortunate enough to be producers of surplus, or even of necessities.

When you think about it, almost everything you consume is someone else’s surplus production, even if one is a vegan that’s true. And those who produce what you do eat, and what you wear and the shelter under which you live, use energy in doing it.

If I, or others like me, were reduced to doing what we do with muscle power alone, a lot of people on this earth would not make it. In my mind, God put petroleum in the ground so my muscles, and those of others like me, could be magnified so we could produce surpluses that sustain others. In my mind, when God created millions upon millions of acres that would produce grass alone, he also created cattle and sheep and goats that could turn it into human food.

I do not criticize anyone for being a vegan. That’s fine. But it must also be remembered that millions of people depend on those “mediator” species between us and utterly indigestible grass. And millions depend on the “magnified muscles” (machines) of those who culture and cull and harvest the timber that keeps people out of the weather.

Different people, I think, have different “vocations” when it comes to proper husbandry of the earth. And just as a married man with children should not criticize a Carmelite who prays all day, neither should the Carmelite criticize the man who tills the earth or makes the machines.
 
*Originally Posted by 4elise
Ummmmm… and your position is that concern for God’s creation is not in keeping with Catholic values - or do I detect a note of sarcasm?
  • You reply:
Whatever you may say about the propriety of each of us acting in accord with his own view of what works, the comment above is, I think, more descriptive of your opinion: those who don’t view the world as you do do so because they don’t care for “God’s creation.” This is also what is implied by the USCCB involvement in this issue and I oppose it because it is wrong. r
This comment was a response and does not imply any METHOD to care for God’s creation, - ONLY that doing so is in keeping with Catholic Vales.

Quote:
Is it a moral imperative to care for creation? (post 461)

Here it is again, your assumption that others don’t care for creation. r
This, is not in any way an assumption on anyone’s actions, rather drawing the line between the two dots… IF we believe that we are to care for God’s creation - it is a moral issue - HOW is up for debate.

Quote:
if we put our heads in the sand or cover our ears and say ‘its not happening, its not happening’ we won’t have a voice at the table. (#456)

Again, you assume that we disagree with you because we’ve chosen to ignore the issue rather than confront it. r
Here I was trying to make the point that those who deny climate change will not have any voice in the HOW it is addressed -

*Quote:
Do our actions keep the poor and most vulnerable at the heart … or are we only worried about preserving our own way of life to their determent? (#453)
*
This is the perception that runs through most of your posts: you care about the poor and we only care about ourselves. This is an uncharitable assumption. r
I am asking the question in the most charitable way I know - and pointing to what the Pope, the United States Conference of Catholic Bishops are encouraging us to do on this topic - KEEP the needs of the poor at the heart - there is no assumption that others have not done so as well, and I believe that many who discuss the issues of the HOW to address this, i.e. the potential negatives of cap and trade on the poor are doing exactly that -

Quote:
You do not agree MMCC is real, and therefore I agree — your actions / or lack of actions / are in keeping with an appropriate moral response to your belief.

You may concede this point intellectually but emotionally you still cling to the opinion that you care and we don’t. If you simply assumed that we care as much as you do then this thread would die as it would then be obvious that there is no specifically Catholic response to global warming. You keep this thread alive by your belief that your position is not just scientifically valid but morally superior to those who reject the theory of AGW.
Ender r
Now here I believe you may be making assumptions — I don’t say you don’t care, and do not wish to imply that either. I am not the only one posting, so not sure how it falls just to me to ‘keep it alive’?

I could read this to imply that you think you are intellectually superior, however I chose to believe that you and I disagree on the science, and the response as well. Perhaps you hear judgment because you are judging?

Now, since the objective is not to discuss each other, but the issue… I strongly believe that my faith calls me to action on climate change, and am glad to have the resource of the Catholic Coalition on Climate Change. 🙂
 
In my opinion, whatever it’s worth (and it may be nothing) those things you are doing are fine for you. They hurt no one (I assume you have figured out how to get adequate nutrition from your diet) and, to the extent you do not consume animal products, that leaves some quantity of them, however small, for others. At least theoretically it does.

But there is another side to the equation…
.
Different people, I think, have different “vocations” when it comes to proper husbandry of the earth. And just as a married man with children should not criticize a Carmelite who prays all day, neither should the Carmelite criticize the man who tills the earth or makes the machines.
Thank you for your very thoughtful post 👍- and yes I agree it is always a complicated issue. I had a priest once tell me that the Catholic Church is a big umbrella Church and that there is room for all of us - and people of good intention can make big mistakes with well meaning actions - and I certainly won’t argue that!

On the issue of Climate Change, this is one of the reasons that I REALLY appreciate that there is a web site that is providing some information and I know that the Bishops aren’t scientists, but I value their (name removed by moderator)ut on the faith portion of all this. Others obviously actually resent that they are putting anything into the discussion - I’m grateful. 🙂
 
Reflection and prayer, education, stewardship, solidarity, taking a walk, planting trees, eating vegetables, going vegan, are non-controversies. Why would we need a website for that? Why would we need a Catholic Coalition on Climate Change for those things? I’m still unsure who started the coalition, who runs its website, who is on the board of directors, who sets policy.
I believe that a web site helps people consider ways that their actions can have an impact, and reinforce the perspective that the poor and most vulnerable must be at the heart of the discussion.

According to their web site ** “in 2006, the Catholic Coalition on Climate Change was launched with the support of both the U.S. Conference of Catholic Bishops and the National Religious Partnership for the Environment.”

“Through articles, workshops, and presentations, the Executive Director encourages U.S. Catholics to learn more about climate change and the Catholic approach, which emphasizes the pursuit of the common good**, promotion of the virtue of prudence and the protection of the poorest of our brothers and sisters already suffering disproportionate impacts from climate change.”

"The Coalition is funded with generous assistance from the National Religious Partnership for the Environment.

We share ideas, information and programs with overseas partners who are also addressing the issue of climate change from a Catholic perspective. Partners include:
Code:
* Catholic Earthcare Australia
* Catholic Agency for Overseas Development (CAFOD)
* Trocaire
* Catholic International Cooperation for Development and Solidarity (CIDSE)
* Caritas Internationalis
"
 
Might you be suggesting the use of critical thinking and a need to question trendy things -both in the larger society and within the Church?
Thank you Don.
Would you be suggesting then that your critical thinking is somehow better than someone who agrees with MMCC and the call keep the poor at the heart of the discussion?
 
The carbon dioxide connection is bogus:

wattsupwiththat.com/2009/07/23/new-paper-from-lindzen/#more-9519

[By the way, IF [big if] carbon dioxide WAS the issue, then those opposing carbon dioxide generating power plants should be pushing for building 100 new nuclear power plants over the next five years.]

There are enough proven nuclear power plant designs available and enough already developed site locations that basically they are already “shovel ready”. We could start tomorrow on building new nuclear power plants.

Any interest?
 
The carbon dioxide connection is bogus:

wattsupwiththat.com/2009/07/23/new-paper-from-lindzen/#more-9519

[By the way, IF [big if] carbon dioxide WAS the issue, then those opposing carbon dioxide generating power plants should be pushing for building 100 new nuclear power plants over the next five years.]

There are enough proven nuclear power plant designs available and enough already developed site locations that basically they are already “shovel ready”. We could start tomorrow on building new nuclear power plants.

Any interest?
Personally, I also favor building as many nuclear power plants as possible, and as rapidly as possible. I am not persuaded that manmade global warming is a reality, nor am I persuaded that going on an energy starvation diet in the U.S. will have the slightest effect on it even if it exists, given that, e.g., China builds a new coal-fired plant every ten days and already produces more CO2 than we do. I support massively increasing our nuclear power capability IN ADDITION to coal generated power plants.

It’s easy for people, I think, to romanticize about wind and solar and muscle power while they enjoy the benefits of fossil-fuel power without really realizing how dependent they are and will always be on it. I sometimes consider myself fortunate in that I know from early experience how ineffective wind power is; how ineffective solar was back in the 1980s when it was all the rage,and how frustratingly limiting muscle power is. Sure, technology has improved, and someday we might have to rely on them more. But right now, nuclear and fossil fuels are the way to go.
 
The only way Catholic faith could be put into action on climate change would be if the blind faith that justifies belief in God was used to justify belief in the proposed explanation for current temperature changes.
 
Although at first this may not seem germane to the topic, with a little thought you will see how it is. From Fathers for Life:
Communism gave rise to some of the most murderous regimes in the history of the world. As documented in The Black Book of Communism, an important work first published in France in 1997, Marxist regimes led to the death of at least 100 million victims.
“Communism has committed a multitude of crimes not only against individual human beings but also against world civilization and national cultures,” writes Stephane Courtoris, one of six co-authors, all of whom describe themselves as former Communists or “fellow travellers” with Communism.
He explains, “The crimes tend to fit a recognizable pattern…the pattern includes execution by…firing squads, hanging, drowning, battering, and, in certain cases, gassing, poisoning, or ‘car accidents’; destruction of the population by starvation, through man-made famine, the withholding of food, or both; deportation, through which death can occur in transit (either through physical exhaustion or through confinement in an enclosed space)…or through forced labour (exhaustion, illness, hunger, cold).”
—Terry O’Neill in
The absurdity of blaming all religion for September 11
REPORT Newsmagazine, Jan.21, 2002, p. 2
…I then determined the lowest estimates and the highest estimates of democide, and arrived at what I call a “prudent” figure depending on various factors. I concluded hat during the twentieth century governments killed at least 80 million people and possibly as many as 300 million, but the most likely number is about 170 million.
—Prof. Rudolph Rummel, University of Hawaii,
at his DEMOCIDE web site:
Much of feminist ideology appears familiar to anyone who knows at least a little bit about communist ideology. A good number of feminists have solid communist backgrounds, such as Betty Friedan, who was (perhaps still is) for many years a functionary of the Communist Party of the USA. Many feminist university professors involved in women’s studies confess to and proudly boast of their affiliation with communist ideology, for which they use the euphemism Marxism. Furthermore, one of the most influential factions of feminism, Marxist and socialist feminism, openly declares its colours and is recognized as such, either communist or Marxist. Travelers who went to Russia and discussed the relationship between feminism and communism with older Russian citizens found out to their astonishment that many Russians consider Bolshevism and feminism to be synonyms and that the Russian revolution is considered by them in fact to have been a feminist revolution.

That appears to be borne out by the fact that the vast majority of the victims whose lives were taken, for instance, in the purges in Russia were men.
 
The only way Catholic faith could be put into action on climate change would be if the blind faith that justifies belief in God was used to justify belief in the proposed explanation for current temperature changes.
"…blind faith that justifies belief in God…"

Tsk,tsk. Since people much more intellegent, then what is exhibited in this statement, do believe in God, I’d be careful before I’d assault God’s commandments so readily.

Then again people who don’t believe in God somehow, assume they are too intellegent to believe in God, but spend their lives looking for opportunity to attack the God they don’t believe in.

Or to quote the late and wise bishop Fulton Sheen in situations like this -what is your sin that you have to attack God and His Church?"

Suffice it too say; be thankful that God believes in you -you may just stumble into Him someday.
 
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