Putting Catholic faith into action on climate change

[TEPO]

Are there Catholics who seek to divide the church through an environmental debate?

 

[TEPO]

I choose the protection of the Church over the protection of the earth, and think you should too. You may not like my opinion, but I’m offering it for the sake of the debate.

 

[TEPO]

We must each do what we think is right. The point of this debate is whether our Catholic faith compels us to act in a particular way and on this issue, since there is no Catholic position on the truth of the theory of global warming, there is no “Catholic” way to act.

Well said for me. I think it is more important to protect the church than it is to protct the earth. This is my opinion. I may act on it a bit harshly at times though, but didnt Jesus flip tables when the church was turned into a market for profit? For offending anyone I am sorry. I just strongly disagree with using todays church for govornment profit. This is what I think. My apologies to all.

 

[4elise]

I’m crying out for answers, Please!

THANK YOU ---- what I agree with on the Catholic Coalition on Climate change is that we CAN make those personal choices that will make a difference… and do so because of our faith.

 

[4elise]

I do not question the motivation of those who accept MMCC for two reasons: I cannot know their motivations and to condemn them without knowing would be uncharitable and an example of rash judgment. More significantly however, their motivations are irrelevant.
We must each do what we think is right. The point of this debate is whether our Catholic faith compels us to act in a particular way and on this issue, since there is no Catholic position on the truth of the theory of global warming, there is no “Catholic” way to act.

These are arguments that should not be made. It is unjust to attack people by implying their motivations are improper when it is simply impossible to know what motivates them. As I said above, beyond the wholly improper judgment being made about others, even if those who oppose you do so from the worst of intentions, this does not mean their position is incorrect.

Man either has or has not contributed to global warming and that fact is totally unaffected by the ethical nature of the people who take one side or the other. Unchristian attacks on the motivations of strangers are not meant to answer questions of truth but are intended solely to eliminate the need to respond to the arguments presented. If you can rebut your opponents positions then do so but don’t run from arguments by slandering those who present them.

Ender

My comments regarding the motivation of those who claim it is not happening does not pertain to those good people here who are making a case against cap and trade, but rather the large businesses that benefit from the status quo ----- JUST AS THOSE HERE have questioned the motivation of those who advocate for action to address climate change

 

[4elise]

Well said for me. I think it is more important to protect the church than it is to protct the earth. This is my opinion. I may act on it a bit harshly at times though, but didnt Jesus flip tables when the church was turned into a market for profit? For offending anyone I am sorry. I just strongly disagree with using todays church for govornment profit. This is what I think. My apologies to all.

TEPO - when we are talking about the earth we are talking about God’s precious gift, not something separate from God, the Church is the community that together is working together to bring salvation to all.

I completely understand that we can be filled with anger if someone seems to be trying to ‘use’ the Church for profit - BUT what I see in all the information from the Holy Father and the Catholic Coalition on Climate change is the need to be the voice for the poor in this and in all issues.

Others who do not agree with man made climate change are of course entitled to their opinion, and then therefore they do not believe any action is needed, or warrented based on faith. I and many others, think climate change is real, that there are man made factors, AND therefore I should try to do my part to make change where I can, and I do so because my Catholic faith calls me to look beyond my own needs — now this is not to say that others who don’t believe this science are not also good Catholics who are acting in a way that they believe is in the best interest of the poor ---- BUT since I do believe this - I MUST TRY TO DO WHAT I CAN… I wish you peace my friend - I admire your zeal!

 

[TEPO]

TEPO - when we are talking about the earth we are talking about God’s precious gift, not something separate from God, the Church is the community that together is working together to bring salvation to all.

I completely understand that we can be filled with anger if someone seems to be trying to ‘use’ the Church for profit - BUT what I see in all the information from the Holy Father and the Catholic Coalition on Climate change is the need to be the voice for the poor in this and in all issues.

Others who do not agree with man made climate change are of course entitled to their opinion, and then therefore they do not believe any action is needed, or warrented based on faith. I and many others, think climate change is real, that there are man made factors, AND therefore I should try to do my part to make change where I can, and I do so because my Catholic faith calls me to look beyond my own needs — now this is not to say that others who don’t believe this science are not also good Catholics who are acting in a way that they believe is in the best interest of the poor ---- BUT since I do believe this - I MUST TRY TO DO WHAT I CAN… I wish you peace my friend - I admire your zeal!

Likewise. Battle-on

 

[Ridgerunner]

I am not saying your state makes its own weather just trying to say what you experience is weather right now. Three years is not a long enough time to determine a climatic trend. This link might help you further understand why you can;t look at such short periods. realclimate.org/index.php/archives/2008/01/uncertainty-noise-and-the-art-of-model-data-comparison/ And that looks at longer time periods then you are talking about. But see how it bounces all over the place when you look at such short time periods?

I have seen SUPER long graphs that show we’re virtually on the edge of an ice age if you look at hundreds of thousands of years or millions of years. I have seen graphs that show cooling since the 1930s. (My grandfather did say it was a lot hotter then.) I have also seen graphs like the one you cited, and others that make a case for even more drastic changes than that. I have seen graphs showing that CO2 increases FOLLOW warming, not the other way around. On and on and on.

Looks to me like a person can pretty much choose to believe in global warming or against it. Also, it looks like a person can believe it’s manmade or not. (a little less persuasive) Also, it looks like a person can believe or disbelieve that actions like cap and trade will make any difference, though the activities of China and INdia pretty much persuade that they won’t. Then, getting way out there, a person can believe that global warming is helpful to humanity or harmful. Some say warming would be beneficial and some say it would be detrimental.

It also often seems that the determinant between believing in it or disbelieving is more ideological than it is anything else. Liberals tend to believe in it more; conservatives less.

Being a simple lad, but being aware MMGW (or cooling) is not a scientific certitude, I trust my own skin, which tells me a) that it has been cooler than normal for three years now b) it has been rainier than normal for approximately the same period c) Windmills don’t generate much energy; witness all the farm windmills I saw come down over the years, and all they had to do was pump water d) everybody went berserk over solar in the 1980s and it didn’t work at all well and was abandoned.

I also know that I, and everybody else, will pay more for everything with something like cap and trade, and the poor will be hit by it more than anyone else.

 

[4elise]

l.

It also often seems that the determinant between believing in it or disbelieving is more ideological than it is anything else. Liberals tend to believe in it more; conservatives less.

Being a simple lad…

I also know that I, and everybody else, will pay more for everything with something like cap and trade, and the poor will be hit by it more than anyone else.

I love that image of you ridgerunner as a simple lad! (because that is obviously not true!) And certainly by a more traditional definition of “conservative” that certainly makes sense - that of resisting change - so in this case a move to any change could be both a literal and ideologically liberal I guess.

Perhaps that is why I have so enjoyed reading the information that is coming out from the Catholic Coalition on Climate Change and their partners - it seems stripped of ideology to me anyway - it may be radical, it may lead to change, but it isn’t with some liberal ideology as an engine driving it - rather the VERY counter-cultural position of advocating for the poor is moving the discussion forward.

 

[JimG]

Of course, the CCCS and its rather liberal minded partners such as LCWR, CMSM, and Carmelite NGO, don’t seem to recognize at all the ambiguity that Ridgerunner outlines. Rather, they accept one point of view–among many–and say, let’s go with it. But go where? If concern for the poor is to be a priority, that will remain whether there is global warming or cooling.

 

[Ridgerunner]

I love that image of you ridgerunner as a simple lad! (because that is obviously not true!) And certainly by a more traditional definition of “conservative” that certainly makes sense - that of resisting change - so in this case a move to any change could be both a literal and ideologically liberal I guess.

Perhaps that is why I have so enjoyed reading the information that is coming out from the Catholic Coalition on Climate Change and their partners - it seems stripped of ideology to me anyway - it may be radical, it may lead to change, but it isn’t with some liberal ideology as an engine driving it - rather the VERY counter-cultural position of advocating for the poor is moving the discussion forward.

Actually, I am a simple lad, but it was kind of you to say otherwise.

Having read the cited source, I am appalled (but not surprised) that some sub-bureau of the USCCB would mix leftist political ideology and religion in this manner. I have long considered it a wholly-owned subsidiary of the Democrat party, and been woefully disappointed that it would purport to speak in support of the world’s poor, yet donate a million dollars to the political organization ACORN in lieu of giving it to the world’s poor.

The USCCB no more knows how the world’s poor will be affected by U.S. measures to “combat global warming” than they know how they will be affected by fourth coal-fired power plant built in China in July,2009 or the moon’s widening orbit around from the earth. Nor do they have a clue how the dictators of the world who will actually receive some of this money will spend it. On AK-47s for child soldiers perhaps? Swiss bank accounts? They don’t know.

It will be a wonderful day (probably some time in coming) when the USCCB becomes a Catholic institution instead of a Democrat party sub-organization.

Until then, it is an organization of which Catholics can be, and ought to be, profoundly ashamed.

 

[TEPO]

I can think of a hundred other things to do to help the poor than worry about climate change. How about helping ex-cons get jobs. You know it’s almost impossible for an ex-con to get a decent job with felonies on his record. This is why we have so much crime. Nobody has mercy on these poor souls who are sorry for what they did.
Nobody gets a second chance, because liberals love making new laws. cant smoke, cant talk on the phone, cant say certain words. When will it all end. Climate change is ****. Just another excuse for more nonsense laws.

 

[4elise]

Actually, I am a simple lad, but it was kind of you to say otherwise.

Having read the cited source, I am appalled (but not surprised) that some sub-bureau of the USCCB would mix leftist political ideology and religion in this manner. I have long considered it a wholly-owned subsidiary of the Democrat party, and been woefully disappointed that it would purport to speak in support of the world’s poor, yet donate a million dollars to the political organization ACORN in lieu of giving it to the world’s poor.

The USCCB no more knows how the world’s poor will be affected by U.S. measures to “combat global warming” than they know how they will be affected by fourth coal-fired power plant built in China in July,2009 or the moon’s widening orbit around from the earth. Nor do they have a clue how the dictators of the world who will actually receive some of this money will spend it. On AK-47s for child soldiers perhaps? Swiss bank accounts? They don’t know.

It will be a wonderful day (probably some time in coming) when the USCCB becomes a Catholic institution instead of a Democrat party sub-organization.

Until then, it is an organization of which Catholics can be, and ought to be, profoundly ashamed.

Now, I’m a simple gal, and I just don’t see it this way - I don’t have the same opinion of the Bishops or the USCCB that you do, but reading your opinion I can see why you would not be pleased that they are putting out any information on this topic. I’ve had a chance to see programs from the USCCB doing wonderful things both domestic and internationally - so, while there could always be improvement I’m really proud of our Church and it’s leadership — Peace!

 

[4elise]

I can think of a hundred other things to do to help the poor than worry about climate change. How about helping ex-cons get jobs. You know it’s almost impossible for an ex-con to get a decent job with felonies on his record. This is why we have so much crime. Nobody has mercy on these poor souls who are sorry for what they did.
Nobody gets a second chance, because liberals love making new laws. cant smoke, cant talk on the phone, cant say certain words. When will it all end. Climate change is ****. Just another excuse for more nonsense laws.

TEPO -
If there is one thing that the Catholic Church teaches is that we get second chances!

I think that in most (Arch)diocese there is a prison minsitry — in Southern California we have HomeBoy Industries - homeboy-industries.org/history.php
There is stfrancisa2.com/jail/ / prison-ministry.org/ 1bread.catholic.org/evangelist/prison.html

And, just FYI - for the most part liberals are not associated with ‘tough on crime’ - that tends to be more of a ‘conservative’ platform - i.e. the three strike law.

You might want to start a thread on how Catholics should respond to this issue… I think you have a good point about this being something that is very important.

That being said - helping people find jobs does not mean that working to find ways to address climate change is a bad thing - we can do both and more!

 

[TEPO]

I also think cutting funding to planned parenthood would be a great way to stop abortion. Dont you agree? Much more important than climate change. This way Catholic Charities would have a way to intercede providing help for pregnant moms who are poor. Could even strengthen the Church. Another contribution to the poor.

 

[4elise]

I also think cutting funding to planned parenthood would be a great way to stop abortion. Don’t you agree? Much more important than climate change. This way Catholic Charities would have a way to intercede providing help for pregnant moms who are poor. Could even strengthen the Church. Another contribution to the poor.

The Catholic Church is doing so much to help women make the right choice for life when they are faced with these terrible pressures i.e. - stannes.org/ - I’ve also read an article about the health care debate - that one of the best outcomes of universal health care is young women won’t have to make the choice to abort because it is over and done, but will be able to have ongoing prenatal care and care for their child…

But getting back to the topic at hand - I believe all these issues are interrelated - not stand alone issues.

 

[TEPO]

The Catholic Church is doing so much to help women make the right choice for life when they are faced with these terrible pressures i.e. - stannes.org/ - I’ve also read an article about the health care debate - that one of the best outcomes of universal health care is young women won’t have to make the choice to abort because it is over and done, but will be able to have ongoing prenatal care and care for their child…

But getting back to the topic at hand - I believe all these issues are interrelated - not stand alone issues.

Please help me to understand how combating climate change could help solve some of these atrocities in our society today.
Also, how in your view, will the fight against climate change shape our future?

 

[4elise]

Please help me to understand how combating climate change could help solve some of these atrocities in our society today.
Also, how in your view, will the fight against climate change shape our future?

I may see this in an overly simply way (I have no doubt that there are those who would agree with that here!) - but as the water rises on coastal communities - not so much in the US, but poor island communities already suffering the impacts of poverty and disease - they will need MORE resources from us to help them, which will drain funds that can be used to support women, children, and the poor here.

Diseases that are ‘vector born’ - for example malaria are on the rise internationally - at one time these diseases did not happen about 4000 ft level - today they are being found all the way to 6000 - some cities in Africa were actually built above 4000 because they were healthier places - today those crowded cities are being impacted more by these diseases - so again, (in my work I’ve visited these places) more resources go to help provide health care for the poor in the missions, less resources here at home to hlep fight abortion, right?

Now, I believe that the Holy Spirit moves each of us - if we are open to this - to be part of the Body of Christ - some put all their energies fighting homelessness here in the US, others provide health care for children in Haiti, some work in prison ministry, others workng to end abortion. I believe my actions matter so I keep trying to make good choices and encourage others to consider these as well…

ALL this is the work of the Holy Spirit - and yes I believe that working to educate people about the possible impact of climate change and WHAT WE CAN EACH DO - matters - it isn’t the only thing I do, in fact I am much more involved in the mission ad gentes - the mission of the Church internationally - this is where the Spirit has moved me over the past 35 years — but I think it all matters.

 

[TEPO]

I may see this in an overly simply way (I have no doubt that there are those who would agree with that here!) - but as the water rises on coastal communities - not so much in the US, but poor island communities already suffering the impacts of poverty and disease - they will need MORE resources from us to help them, which will drain funds that can be used to support women, children, and the poor here.

Diseases that are ‘vector born’ - for example malaria are on the rise internationally - at one time these diseases did not happen about 4000 ft level - today they are being found all the way to 6000 - some cities in Africa were actually built above 4000 because they were healthier places - today those crowded cities are being impacted more by these diseases - so again, (in my work I’ve visited these places) more resources go to help provide health care for the poor in the missions, less resources here at home to hlep fight abortion, right?

Now, I believe that the Holy Spirit moves each of us - if we are open to this - to be part of the Body of Christ - some put all their energies fighting homelessness here in the US, others provide health care for children in Haiti, some work in prison ministry, others workng to end abortion. I believe my actions matter so I keep trying to make good choices and encourage others to consider these as well…

ALL this is the work of the Holy Spirit - and yes I believe that working to educate people about the possible impact of climate change and WHAT WE CAN EACH DO - matters - it isn’t the only thing I do, in fact I am much more involved in the mission ad gentes - the mission of the Church internationally - this is where the Spirit has moved me over the past 35 years — but I think it all matters.

hhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh.(sigh). So you had to pull *that *card out on me.
I’m gonna need some time off.

 

[4elise]

hhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh.(sigh). So you had to pull *that *card out on me.
I’m gonna need some time off.

now which card is that?