Putting Catholic faith into action on climate change

[Bill_Cherry]

Yeah.

Maybe we should address it the same way the President and Speaker of the House do—by increasing the number of abortions.

Makes as much sense.

or maybe not,…mabe we should speak out on both issues. Like The Holy Father does.

 

[Ender]

Oh JimG - one thing in common with your reference to “Eders Game” and a discussion about climate change - it is about the future!

That’s not the only similarity … they’re both science fiction.

Ender

 

[4elise]

That’s not the only similarity … they’re both science fiction.

Ender

Thank you for not disappointing!
If only it were just a book, or some kind of fiction.

From US News and World Report
** Posted September 8, 2009 ** usnews.com/articles/science/2009/09/08/arctic-offers-more-evidence-of-human-influences-on-climate-change.html

Arctic Offers More Evidence of Human Influences on Climate Change
Recent, sudden and dramatic Arctic warming was preceded by almost 2,000 years of natural cooling

A new study indicates that Arctic temperatures suddenly increased during the last 50 years of the period from A.D. 1 to the year 2000. Because this warming occurred abruptly during the 20th century while atmospheric greenhouse gases were accumulating, these findings provide additional evidence that humans are influencing climate.

 

[Joe_5859]

We’re nearing the end of this lengthy thread. I feel almost sad. :bighanky:

I haven’t posted alot on this thread, but it has been fun to watch the exchange. Thanks all!

 

[Ender]

Thank you for not disappointing!

Now I know the problem addicts face … I just can’t help myself. Still, if it helps get us to the magic 1000 number I’m willing to do my part.

From US News and World Report …

This is the kind of advocacy journalism I most resent. I have not read the article but I will comment on the part you extracted.

• First, they claim that Arctic temperatures suddenly increased in the last 50 years during the time of increased accumulation of greenhouse gases. What they don’t mention is: the most rapid increase in greenhouse gases took place in the first half of the 20th century, not the second half; global temperatures have been flat for the last decade (according to the August report release by NOAA); Antarctic temperatures have gone down. Given that the preponderance of facts do not support their thesis that the world is warming they extract a single piece of evidence that accords with their personal position. Compounding the deception, they report on the temperature trend over the last 50 years which would completely mask the trend of the last decade - whatever it might happen to be.
• Second, they commit a logical fallacy by asserting that these findings provide evidence that humans are affecting the climate: the post hoc ergo propter hoc (after this therefore because of this) error of concluding that when first one thing happens and then another, the first thing caused the second. It’s like the rooster concluding that he causes the sun to rise because every day it comes up right after he crows, although in the case of global warming they are even willing to argue that the second thing causes the first - because the 400,000 year record of temperature vs. CO2 concentrations shows that temperature changes first and CO2 concentrations follow along behind.

ood-eldood-a-kcoC

Ender

 

[po18guy]

or maybe not,…mabe we should speak out on both issues. Like The Holy Father does.

What emotionalists miss is that abortion is an objective and absolute evil that must be opposed in all of its forms - even when it is subversively combined with objective good (“health care”). “Climate change” is more complex by an exponential degree and requires prudential judgments to be made - rather than abject obeisance to some ad hoc committee just because it happens to have politically correct terminology in its name.

 

[Eddie_Mac]

Our climate changed in Southeast Texas this week. We have 5-6 days of rain instead of drought.

It had to be my Stage 3 injectors in my 1999 Super Duty Power Stroke. Smokin’!

Eddie Mac

 

[4elise]

Now I know the problem addicts face … I just can’t help myself. Still, if it helps get us to the magic 1000 number I’m willing to do my part.

Would it help with the addiction issue if I told you I’ll start another thread on a similar topic when we hit 1000 here?

This is the kind of advocacy journalism I most resent. I have not read the article but I will comment on the part you extracted.

• First, they claim that Arctic temperatures suddenly increased in the last 50 years during the time of increased accumulation of greenhouse gases. What they don’t mention is: the most rapid increase in greenhouse gases took place in the first half of the 20th century, not the second half; global temperatures have been flat for the last decade (according to the August report release by NOAA); Antarctic temperatures have gone down. Given that the preponderance of facts do not support their thesis that the world is warming they extract a single piece of evidence that accords with their personal position. Compounding the deception, they report on the temperature trend over the last 50 years which would completely mask the trend of the last decade - whatever it might happen to be.
• Second, they commit a logical fallacy by asserting that these findings provide evidence that humans are affecting the climate: the post hoc ergo propter hoc (after this therefore because of this) error of concluding that when first one thing happens and then another, the first thing caused the second. It’s like the rooster concluding that he causes the sun to rise because every day it comes up right after he crows, although in the case of global warming they are even willing to argue that the second thing causes the first - because the 400,000 year record of temperature vs. CO2 concentrations shows that temperature changes first and CO2 concentrations follow along behind.

ood-eldood-a-kcoC

Ender

knowing that you my friend will find fault with anything I post… I too can’t resist… - “once you post, you can’t stop!”

The NOAA report from August I found: skywatch-media.com/2009/08/noaa-report-reveals-record-high-sea.html

Tuesday, August 18, 2009
NOAA report reveals record high sea temperatures

Global warming has continued to raise the surface temperatures of the planet, NOAA says. July set an all time record high for surface water temperatures around the world, that is the result of this recent report from NOAA (National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration) where officials stated that the previous record high temperatures for the month of July was broken this year , rising above the 1998 record by more than a degree.

The recent findings showed elevated temperatures not only for the sea but on land as well. The overall surface temperature for the Earth’s oceans came in at 62.56 F degrees (16.63 C). This is a rise over the previous record of around 1.06 degrees. Temperatures on land were heating up as well. Land temperatures saw a .92 F degree increase for a total of 58 F (14.81 C). This means a combined surface temperature on land and see that came in for a fifth warmest July reported at 61.7 F degrees (15.65 C). These are records based on data on the surface temperature which as been collected from around the world since 1880.

blog.taragana.com/n/mass-science-center-on-cape-cod-to-build-ocean-monitoring-stations-to-research-climate-change-161314/

Human impacts and environmental factors changing northwest Atlantic ecosystem

September 2nd, 2009 WASHINGTON - A new report by researchers at the National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration (NOAA) has determined that human impacts and environmental factors are changing the northwest Atlantic ecosystem. According to the report, fish in US waters from Cape Hatteras to the Canadian border have moved away from their traditional, long-time habitats over the past four decades because of fundamental changes in the regional ecosystem.

 

[po18guy]

Now I know the problem addicts face … I just can’t help myself. Still, if it helps get us to the magic 1000 number I’m willing to do my part.
This is the kind of advocacy journalism I most resent. I have not read the article but I will comment on the part you extracted.

• First, they claim that Arctic temperatures suddenly increased in the last 50 years during the time of increased accumulation of greenhouse gases. What they don’t mention is: the most rapid increase in greenhouse gases took place in the first half of the 20th century, not the second half; global temperatures have been flat for the last decade (according to the August report release by NOAA); Antarctic temperatures have gone down. Given that the preponderance of facts do not support their thesis that the world is warming they extract a single piece of evidence that accords with their personal position. Compounding the deception, they report on the temperature trend over the last 50 years which would completely mask the trend of the last decade - whatever it might happen to be.
• Second, they commit a logical fallacy by asserting that these findings provide evidence that humans are affecting the climate: the post hoc ergo propter hoc (after this therefore because of this) error of concluding that when first one thing happens and then another, the first thing caused the second. It’s like the rooster concluding that he causes the sun to rise because every day it comes up right after he crows, although in the case of global warming they are even willing to argue that the second thing causes the first - because the 400,000 year record of temperature vs. CO2 concentrations shows that temperature changes first and CO2 concentrations follow along behind.

ood-eldood-a-kcoC

Ender

You will make no progress against someone whose second religion appears to be Catholicism.

 

[Ender]

The NOAA report from August I found: skywatch-media.com/2009/08/noaa-report-reveals-record-high-sea.html

This is not the NOAA report; it is data that was cherry picked from the actual report to cover the real damaging information that it contains: the amount of warming due to factors other than the El Nino/Southern Oscillation over the last decade was exactly 0.00 degrees.

This is the kind of article that should offend you because you believe it and you are being deliberately misled. The opening comment should also cause some head scratching as it claims that ocean water is warmer than ever. Now I don’t doubt that it is true but what could it mean? If water temperatures are increasing even as overall global temperatures are not then greenhouse gases could not possibly be the source of the warming because that theory requires the atmosphere to warm first.

NOAA is the first and most credible organization to flatly state that there has been exactly zero greenhouse warming over the last decade and furthermore they stated that another five years of zero warming would conclusively demonstrate the failure of the models. That is, another five years like the last ten and the theory absolutely crumbles.

In trying to salvage something from the damage of this report, however, by claiming that water temperatures are higher - which at first glance implies that warming is still happening - they simply shoot themselves in the foot as there is no theory that can explain how water temperatures can rise even while atmospheric temperatures do not. You have been and are now being deceived about global warming.

Ender

 

[4elise]

You will make no progress against someone whose second religion appears to be Catholicism.

Since I assume this is directed at me, I’d be grateful for an apology - You don’t know me - my concern about climate change is a reflection of my faith and belief that we have personal responsibility to care for God’s gift of creation.

 

[4elise]

This is not the NOAA report; it is data that was cherry picked from the actual report to cover the real damaging information that it contains: the amount of warming due to factors other than the El Nino/Southern Oscillation over the last decade was exactly 0.00 degrees.

This is the kind of article that should offend you because you believe it and you are being deliberately misled. The opening comment should also cause some head scratching as it claims that ocean water is warmer than ever. Now I don’t doubt that it is true but what could it mean? If water temperatures are increasing even as overall global temperatures are not then greenhouse gases could not possibly be the source of the warming because that theory requires the atmosphere to warm first.

NOAA is the first and most credible organization to flatly state that there has been exactly zero greenhouse warming over the last decade and furthermore they stated that another five years of zero warming would conclusively demonstrate the failure of the models. That is, another five years like the last ten and the theory absolutely crumbles.

In trying to salvage something from the damage of this report, however, by claiming that water temperatures are higher - which at first glance implies that warming is still happening - they simply shoot themselves in the foot as there is no theory that can explain how water temperatures can rise even while atmospheric temperatures do not. You have been and are now being deceived about global warming.

Ender

climate.noaa.gov/opportunities/
Directly from their web site:

Changing climate confronts us with significant economic, health, safety, and national security implications. NOAA has a significant responsibility in operational observation, research, prediction, and information management for studying climate and global change.

GUIDING PRINCIPLE FOR INFORMED CLIMATE DECISION:

Humans can take actions to reduce climate change and its impacts.
CLIMATE LITERACY: The Essential Principles of Climate Science

1. The Sun is the primary source of energy for Earths climate system.
2. Climate is regulated by complex interactions among components of the Earth system.
3. Life on Earth depends on, is shaped by, and affects climate.
4. Climate varies over space and time through both natural and man-made processes.
5. Our understanding of the climate system is improved through observations, theoretical studies, and modeling.
6. Human activities are impacting the climate system.
7. Climate change will have consequences for the Earth system and human lives.

 

[4elise]

We … call for a civil dialogue and prudent and constructive action to protect God’s precious gift of the earth’s atmosphere with a sense of genuine solidarity and justice for all God’s children.”
—U.S. Catholic Bishops

What are the moral implications of climate change? Who is most impacted? What should the Catholic community do? The Catholic Coalition on Climate Change was launched in 2006 to help the U.S. Conference of Catholic Bishops (USCCB) and the Catholic community address these issues.

Learn about Catholic Principles and Teachings applied to the issue of global climate change:

* Prudence—thoughtful, deliberate, and reasoned action
* Poverty—concern for those least able to bear the burden
* The Common Good—promotion of solidarity over self-interest

catholicsandclimatechange.org/
Peace

 

[po18guy]

Since I assume this is directed at me, I’d be grateful for an apology - You don’t know me - my concern about climate change is a reflection of my faith and belief that we have personal responsibility to care for God’s gift of creation.

It was directed to ender. I apologize for any offense it caused you. But, I have not seen one shred of evidence that you care about anything else. How about Obama’s illegal and immoral war? Isn’t that worth fighting?

 

[po18guy]

Since I assume this is directed at me, I’d be grateful for an apology - You don’t know me - my concern about climate change is a reflection of my faith and belief that we have personal responsibility to care for God’s gift of creation.

By posting this thread and then inflexibly and stridently defending your opinion (and, seemingly, solely your opinion), don’t you invite only heated debate and the exchange of rhetoric? Such matters call for the exercise of prudential judgment, but I see no invitation extended to it.

Those who debated with you are not supporters of raping the earth. They are merely trying to convince you that a healthy distrust of government is a good that is taught us by history. That, and that drastic action on such a controversial (yes, it is) subject would most certainly be premature, if not downright ineffective.

Consider: If the North American continent did not exist, how would that reduce or control the pollution and 'greenhouse gases" that are produced by China and India? Shouldn’t the world go after the most egregious offenders first? Or, should we tax only wealthy nations, who can afford to pay a tax to pollute?

 

[Calliso]

Bleh I thought I was done with this thread but since the NOAA thing keeps being brought up I thought I would post this since I think I finally found that report. ncdc.noaa.gov/oa/climate/research/2008/ann/bams/full-report.pdf start at about page 23.

But it definately doesn;t seem to be saying that warming has stopped for the long term. But last time I checked I am pretty sure the people at NOAA do believe that we are still in a long term warming trend and that since mid century much of that warming is due to humans. And with that said…hopefully this thread willl finally die… lol.

 

[4elise]

By posting this thread and then inflexibly and stridently defending your opinion (and, seemingly, solely your opinion), don’t you invite only heated debate and the exchange of rhetoric? Such matters call for the exercise of prudential judgment, but I see no invitation extended to it.

Those who debated with you are not supporters of raping the earth. They are merely trying to convince you that a healthy distrust of government is a good that is taught us by history. That, and that drastic action on such a controversial (yes, it is) subject would most certainly be premature, if not downright ineffective.

Consider: If the North American continent did not exist, how would that reduce or control the pollution and 'greenhouse gases" that are produced by China and India? Shouldn’t the world go after the most egregious offenders first? Or, should we tax only wealthy nations, who can afford to pay a tax to pollute?

Your post I was responding to said that Catholicism was my second religion - this is what I would expect an apology to…

I think if you read through the threads - it is the three things that the Catholic Church suggest we consider when discussing this - Prudence, Concern for the Poor, and the common Good - suggesting in fact that personal action is the response that I have stressed.

I also never suggested that those who disagree with MMCC do so to using your words ‘rape the earth’

Also - I think if you went through the threads you would find that it is not I alone who support the USCCB’S participation in the Catholic Coalition on Climate Change - and I have ONLY responded to other posts -

So again - I would expect an apology for your suggestion that this issue is more important to me than my faith. I have always tried to engage in civil discussions here - but perhaps the our country is just beyond that - I think it is very sad.

 

[4elise]

It was directed to ender. I apologize for any offense it caused you. But, I have not seen one shred of evidence that you care about anything else. How about Obama’s illegal and immoral war? Isn’t that worth fighting?

Not the topic of this thread. And you were NOT suggesting that ender was less than Catholic - you were saying I was.

 

[4elise]

Bleh I thought I was done with this thread but since the NOAA thing keeps being brought up I thought I would post this since I think I finally found that report. ncdc.noaa.gov/oa/climate/research/2008/ann/bams/full-report.pdf start at about page 23.

But it definately doesn;t seem to be saying that warming has stopped for the long term. But last time I checked I am pretty sure the people at NOAA do believe that we are still in a long term warming trend and that since mid century much of that warming is due to humans. And with that said…hopefully this thread willl finally die… lol.

Thank you Calliso - I guess I am not the lone voice on this thread.

 

[Joe_5859]

:hug1: For 4elise.

In 4elise’s defense, climate change is the topic of the thread. So, in the limited parameters of this thread, of course it seems like it is the “only issue” that 4elise cares about.

Well, it seems that this thread has crossed the 1,000 post threshold and will likely be closed soon. Stay tuned for the thread “Putting Catholic faith into action on climate change - Part Two.”