PZ Myers and the Desecration

[Isambard]

That new words that have no universal meanings and can be made to “mean” anything should be used with a disclaimer.

]

Err…any conceptual term has no universal meaning(s). Welcome to the wet 'n wild world of philosophy. If you want to only go by words with universal meanings, then I suggest limiting your english usage to words with “tm” at the end of them.

Also, as others on other threads have been asking “Why are you here?” It does not seem it is to learn or even to ask questions you want answers for. You IMHO seem to be proselytizing for your religion of Atheism.

Ive given a reply on two other threads, so Im not gonna write up a lengthy reply. I do however, find it curious you find my advocacy of free speech “proselytizing for my religion of Atheism”. I guess any East German priests who might agree with me in the importance of holding nothing above critcism are secret atheists eh?

 

[Eden]

Using the word “being” in that context is basically “essentialism.”

And the relevance of your comments to this thread is…? PZ Myers was not disputing the methodology used to explain the “hows” of Transubstantiation, he is disputing the fact that Christ is present in the Eucharist* at all*. Your comments about the use of Aristotelian philosophy in the 13th century by Scholastics to explain how Transubstantiation is possible has nothing to do with PZ Myers, an atheist, desecrating a Eucharist.

 

[muehlbau]

Well, under Church law it may have been “theft” (I am not sure that charge is actually in the canons), but it wasn’t theft under civil law. A person who hands you a playbill intends for you to read it, but it is legal for you to blow your nose on it if you so choose - socially revolting, perhaps, but legal. Similarly, the Church wants you to consume the Eucharist, but after giving it to you, you are legally free to take it home. Again, revolting behavior, but legal.

No, you are not “legally” free to take it home. It is given with an understanding that you consume it. But further, before you even present yourself to receive it, you must be a Catholic who is in a state of grace.

If a person, or institution, says you can have “a” if you do “x” and “y,” and you take “a,” but fail to do “x” and “y,” this is essentially the same thing as taking something without paying for it. Unlike receiving a playbill, which generally has no strings attached, receiving the Eucharist has major strings attached. PZ and his merry band of Hooligans are morally guilty of theft even if the law books have not caught up with the outrageousness of their actions. With any luck, perhaps we can get a civil law passed to prevent such egregious assaults on our right to worship as we choose without being harrassed by atheists.

 

[traillius]

I am not sure that the picture includes a consecrated host, rather than a wafer only. there are safeguards. My mom, a eucharistic minister, told me about how they handle it. anyway, I will go with their claim that it is consecrated, for the sake of argument. Under those circumstances:

1. sad for him and whoever helped.
2. disrespectful to Jesus and catholics
3. Changes nothing about the reality of Transsubstantiation
4. Doesn’t negate the 1st amendment
5. Shows how much they hate us despite their claims
6. Begs the question why desecrate “superstitious crackers?”

 

[traillius]

The real question is :
If catholicism is " superstitious nonsense " why mock it? and why desecrate what you believe is " just a cracker? " And all those other people, if they believe like he does> why do they all mock catholicism
On a side note( this may be off topic) I notice they did not desecrate a king james bible, I guess those protestant christians don’t matter to PZ. I wonder why?

 

[Christophorus72]

The real question is :
If catholicism is " superstitious nonsense " why mock it? and why desecrate what you believe is " just a cracker? " And all those other people, if they believe like he does> why do they all mock catholicism
On a side note( this may be off topic) I notice they did not desecrate a king james bible, I guess those protestant christians don’t matter to PZ. I wonder why?

the guy is a hypocrite. he claims “nothing is sacred” and that he’s an “atheist” but he contradicts himself time and time again. even fellow atheists have called him out on his hypocrisy. just go read his blog.

 

[Isambard]

the guy is a hypocrite. he claims “nothing is sacred” and that he’s an “atheist” but he contradicts himself time and time again. even fellow atheists have called him out on his hypocrisy. just go read his blog.

Like?

 

[Johnny_Dollar]

Like?

Like he says question everything- but don’t ever question our ultimate origins… cause you know, that can lead to tricky and inconvenient possibilities… so don’t ever ask WHY or HOW. That’s free thinking, ya know- free to the limits that he fences off.

Like that.

Nice cult of personality that he’s set up. Are you one of his Apostles, by the way?

 

[Christophorus72]

Like?

Feeding bigotry and flaunting racist stereotypes would be something that would drive me to protest any newspaper that endorsed it—of course, my protests would involve writing letters and canceling subscriptions, not

I’ve seen the cartoons, and they are crude and uninteresting—they are more about perpetuating stereotypes of Muslims as bomb-throwing terrorists than seriously illuminating a problem. They lack artistic or social or even comedic merit, and are only presented as an insult to inflame a poor minority. I don’t have any sympathy for a newspaper carrying out an exercise in pointless provocation.

scienceblogs.com/pharyngula/2006/02/poxridden_houses.php

oh, the irony. those are his words in a separate blog which he tries (and a weak attempt at that) to disguise the cartoons as “racist cartoons” when in fact they were about religious beliefs.

I don’t need to look up the comments on the other blog. Myers You can do that yourself.

perhaps PZ Myers should be protesting himself. Afterall, he’s feeding bigotry.

 

[Christophorus72]

oh wait, there is more. from a site who the writer describes himself as:

"I should annotate this with some disclosure; while baptized as a child, I do not adhere to any religion. While I think a godhead and afterlife are satisfying fantasies, I do think they ultimately remain fantasies. I have nothing wrong with people whose beliefs against a set-in-stone sort of spiritual hierarchy are firmer and more developed than mine, but I do have a problem when it’s in backlash to dogma to the effect of becoming dogma in itself.

PZ Myers is a Douchebag (title of page, remove if offended)
pzmyers.wordpress.com/

 

[Isambard]

Like he says question everything- but don’t ever question our ultimate origins… cause you know, that can lead to tricky and inconvenient possibilities… so don’t ever ask WHY or HOW. That’s free thinking, ya know- free to the limits that he fences off.

Like that.

Nice cult of personality that he’s set up. Are you one of his Apostles, by the way?

Err? What do you mean dont question origins?

 

[Isambard]

Feeding bigotry and flaunting racist stereotypes would be something that would drive me to protest any newspaper that endorsed it—of course, my protests would involve writing letters and canceling subscriptions, not

I’ve seen the cartoons, and they are crude and uninteresting—they are more about perpetuating stereotypes of Muslims as bomb-throwing terrorists than seriously illuminating a problem. They lack artistic or social or even comedic merit, and are only presented as an insult to inflame a poor minority. I don’t have any sympathy for a newspaper carrying out an exercise in pointless provocation.

scienceblogs.com/pharyngula/2006/02/poxridden_houses.php

oh, the irony. those are his words in a separate blog which he tries (and a weak attempt at that) to disguise the cartoons as “racist cartoons” when in fact they were about religious beliefs.

I don’t need to look up the comments on the other blog. Myers You can do that yourself.

perhaps PZ Myers should be protesting himself. Afterall, he’s feeding bigotry.

hmm

"Somehow, people are assuming from this that I’m “sympathetic to Islam”. How, I don’t know; I thought I’d always been quite clear in my contempt for all religion, and I thought the last two paragraphs above were plain enough. I am sympathetic to the problem of being a minority immigrant; that’s one issue that is being ignored too much. As I said, the real problem is being exacerbated by bad religion that amplifies the hate.

I really don’t think a Muslim would find me to be a friend to their religion."

He has a problem with the characturization (sp?). Think of the old cartoons with the hooknosed jews rubbing his hands in mid plot.

 

[Johnny_Dollar]

ULTIMATE origins. I think you know what I mean. Do you want to go through the Kabuki? You know, where we run into the problem of infinite regression and the atheist says something like “it’s illegitimate even to ask the question of the cause of the world, the universe just is.” As in, don’t ever question our ultimate origins… cause you know, that can lead to tricky and inconvenient possibilities.

 

[Isambard]

ULTIMATE origins. I think you know what I mean. Do you want to go through the Kabuki? You know, where we run into the problem of infinite regression and the atheist says something like “it’s illegitimate even to ask the question of the cause of the world, the universe just is.” As in, don’t ever question our ultimate origins… cause you know, that can lead to tricky and inconvenient possibilities.

ooooooooooooooo

Id like to see how he stated it. Cause if he means its pointless given its entirely speculative, then I agree. Might as well go medieval and argue over the weight of angels:thumbsup:

 

[edwest2]

Check out PZ Myers on you tube. I’ve added him to my list of people who just wanna rile up Christians. Pray for him.

God bless,
Ed

 

[Christophorus72]

Check out PZ Myers on you tube. I’ve added him to my list of people who just wanna rile up Christians. Pray for him.

God bless,
Ed

I think he’s just looking to rile up anybody, period. his angst goes beyond just Christians. But I do pray for him.

this was another interesting article I just read on the National Catholic Register website. this is just a little of the article:

*Father Loya also pointed out that in desecrating the Eucharist, Myers’ real target might be the Church — “like a little girl trying to hurt another little girl by pulling the head off her doll.”

“His ‘contempt’ for religion reveals some wound, some hurt,” suggested Father Loya. “Is it evil? Yes. But having said that, know that he is acting out of anger, some hurt.”

Noting that the Eucharist, as a sacrament, is a visible sign of the invisible reality of our unity with Christ, Father Loya said Myers has performed “his own sacrament in reverse,” by making the invisible reality in his life — his anger — visible.

“But even in this inverted action, don’t you see what Christ is doing? He is, once again, going to the cross so that we may draw nearer to him,” said the priest. “Rather than coming down on us with fire, as we might deserve, he is loving us through his humiliation and suffering, turning us back to him.”*

ncregister.com/site/article/15575

 

[Teelynn]

I think he’s just looking to rile up anybody, period. his angst goes beyond just Christians. But I do pray for him.

this was another interesting article I just read on the National Catholic Register website. this is just a little of the article:

Father Loya also pointed out that in desecrating the Eucharist, Myers’ real target might be the Church — “like a little girl trying to hurt another little girl by pulling the head off her doll.”

“His ‘contempt’ for religion reveals some wound, some hurt,” suggested Father Loya. “Is it evil? Yes. But having said that, know that he is acting out of anger, some hurt.”

Noting that the Eucharist, as a sacrament, is a visible sign of the invisible reality of our unity with Christ, Father Loya said Myers has performed “his own sacrament in reverse,” by making the invisible reality in his life — his anger — visible.

“But even in this inverted action, don’t you see what Christ is doing? He is, once again, going to the cross so that we may draw nearer to him,” said the priest. “Rather than coming down on us with fire, as we might deserve, he is loving us through his humiliation and suffering, turning us back to him.”

ncregister.com/site/article/15575

This is excellent…the thought has gone through my head a million times…“what has happened to this man with religion to make him this way?” …but do I really want to know? From what I read, he was brought up Lutheran. So you know that when young he had some religious training.

Check out one of the posts near the end of the other thread on this…10 fruits that God has brought about through this blasphemy…why do I think that these 2 threads should be combined?