Q from a friend who has become a Satanist

[FaithofAbraham]

what’s pagan got to do with it really? why have any deity if you are not better with it than without it? (materially OR spiritually?)

My reply was to someone about pagan deities.

 

[KarenNC]

I really don’t know why you’re taking this as such a big deal… a question was asked, I answered it. I didn’t really come to these forums to argue. It seems like you’re preparing to debate something with me here and I’m all debated out to be honest.

Considering I follow the Hellenic religion, it is a fairly big deal to me to see it accurately portrayed. What we have exchanged hardly qualifies as “arguing”, particularly in the context of these boards.

As for references, that will take some digging up. It’s been years since I studied this, and I can’t remember what reference I’m thinking of. But does it really matter?

You said you had studied it extensively and seemed familiar with the story, and I was not aware of any other source for this tale than Plato’s “Symposium”, so I thought you might know.

But, overall, yes, Hellenic religion really matters to me. I take it as seriously as you take statements about your religion.

 

[KarenNC]

well actually I was thinking more in terms of current modern religions rather than ancient or reconstructionist ones. I know there are many that come under the umbrella of modern paganism that do not believe humans are imperfect/defective/in need of a savior. But I find the ancient ones also fascinating.

Reconstructionist and revivalist religions are current modern religions.

 

[KarenNC]

Why would you have a pagan deity if it didn’t make you better than you would be if you didn’t have it?

Why does anyone follow any religion? I follow my religion because it is the best reflection of the spiritual reality that I have encountered. The Gods are not accessories to be picked up to enhance one’s appearance or behavior, nor are they constructs of humanity to fill some unnamed deficiency or to be called on like the Maytag repairman when desired and otherwise ignored. The Gods quite simply are.

You stated: “Your old paganism says you are better off receiving favors from deities than not – and it is there for people who can’t create those favors (like auto repair) themselves. If you could do it all yourself you wouldn’t need their religion.”

My religion is not about getting things that I can’t do for myself. Rather it challenges me to take full responsibility for my own actions and needs. It is about acknowledging the spiritual reality that exists. It is the responsibility of humans to be the best humans they can possibly be, the realm of ethics rather than religion. The Gods will not make you so.

 

[FaithofAbraham]

My religion is not about getting things that I can’t do for myself. Rather it challenges me to take full responsibility for my own actions and needs.

If it’s not about getting things you can’t do for yourself, why do you need an outside religion to challenge you, why can’t you just do that on your own without it?

I know you want your religion to be different and special, but it’s not than any other: people only adhere to yours or any other religion because they feel they will be lacking something without it. That’s just common sense.

 

[KarenNC]

I know you want your religion to be different and special, but it’s not than any other

Did I say it was “special”, to use your (rather condescending) terminology? It is not a matter of what I “want” my religion to be. My religion is what it is…period.

Yes, it is indeed different from Christianity, from Judaism, from Wicca, from Hinduism, and pretty much all other religions in some way, just as they are all different from each other. That would be why it’s not called one of those.

Yes, I believe that those other religions are wrong in some fundamental aspect of their depiction of spiritual reality as I have experienced it. That would be why I am not a member of one of them.

It would be ridiculous not to acknowledge and state those differences, particularly in a thread about differences between religions. I am also interested in seeing it accurately portrayed, as I am sure everyone else is when their religion is being discussed.

So, to bring this back to the OP, the modern Hellenic revivalist religion does not consider that humans are inherently flawed and therefore in need of salvation.

 

[why_me]

I think the responses are relevant to the question, Ravyn.

If Satanism truly holds that human beings are perfectly fine in and of themselves then what purpose the worship of Satan?

Worship surely happens, regardless of faith tradition, because people hope to gain some spiritual benefit that they need (or at least think they need). Even if that benefit is only a reassurance that they ARE fine, this need for reassurance is in itself an imperfection and flaw in the human character, no?

True satanists do not worship satan. In fact, they do not even believe in satan as they don’t even believe in god. What they do believe in is natural desires. We, humans, according to the satanists, should not be afraid to act out our natural desires. Religion was concocted by the human being to curb such desires.

Satans tend to turn upside down the seven deadly sins and allow for these sins to get free expression as long as a person does not hurt another human being in doing so.

 

[why_me]

If she doesn’t need religion, why does she self-identify as a Satanist rather than just an atheist?

Levay in his book claims that human beings need some sort of dogma or religious ritual. Thus, satanism gives a further meaning to ritual and dogma under the umbrella of satanism. Whereas an atheist may not have rituals and dogmas.

 

[Imryl]

True satanists do not worship satan. In fact, they do not even believe in satan as they don’t even believe in god.

Why me,

You’re wrong my friend. There are several different forms of Satanism, all of which are indeed called Satanism.

Philosophical Satanists and theistic Satanists are the two major camps.

Philosophical Satanists (modern Satanism) are typically LeVayan and their many off-shoots. This is the one you are describing and also what this entire thread is about.

Then there are the theistic Satanists (spiritual/traditional). I’m not going to go into detail because frankly there are as many types of Satanism as there are people who practice it. But most do not see Satan as the Christian Satan.

Here are some sources:
(Mods feel free to remove, I just thought it might be useful for
people to distinguish between the two)

Theistic Satanism
Answers.com - answers.com/theistic%20Satanism
(Random helpful page) angelfire.com/ny5/dvera/

Modern Satanism
Answers.com - answers.com/modern%20Satanism

You can also go to the CoS website, but it’s fairly worthless.

But,… back on topic.