Q- What causes Holocaust denialism?

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StrawberryJam said:
What factors are involved in denial of the Holocaust?
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I never understood it either. There is hardcore physical proof. Even today you can go to Auschwitz, Buchenwald, Treblinka, etc. Most of these have facilites that are still in fair conditions. Half of the buildings were destroyed beyond repair, yes. But most have been rebuilt (using materials that were still salvageable), most have been rebuilt into monuments.

Sure, there are times in history so vile that we wish they had never happened. However, something as evil as the Holocaust is one such history I fail to see as deniable. To deny the Holocaust is to deny the martyrdom of so many poor souls who lost their lives at the command of a mad-man. To deny the Holocaust is to commit an even worse evil.
 
Others are into Holocaust denial because they are anti-Semitic.

Holocaust denial makes me ill, but it is alive and sick. Many years ago, I was the speaker at a synagogue luncheon. There were so many wonderful people there, several of whom were concentration camp survivors with prisoner number tattoos. To this day, I grieve for what they suffered and I am astounded that anyone buys into the denial of the facts. (As we discuss this matter, please take a moment to pray for the souls of all the victims.)

If neo-Nazi groups hope to gain any legitimacy, a complete waste of effort in my opinion, they must diminish the crimes of the original Nazis. The same holds for the run-of-the-mill anti-Semites. Claiming it was somehow faked supports their grand conspiracy theories.

Maybe one day they will quit deceiving themselves. Their nonsense certainly does not fool the rest of us.
 
StrawberryJam said:
What factors are involved in denial of the Holocaust?
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It depends on what precisely you mean by “denial of the Holocaust”.

It seems to me that people who deny the entire Holocaust are into conspiracy theories and probably anti-Semitism.

I believe that there are also those who wish to look at the historical evidence, and draw either factual or erroneous conclusions. Unfortunately, it seems we are not able to talk about this yet.
 
Sell books? Really? I work in book publishing and I know people are generally not becoming wealthy putting out books aside from the occasional Stephen King. Did you know that 70% of published books make little to no money?

I think it would be valuable to list some of the reasons published authors use to deny this event.

It is a crime in Germany and Austria, I believe, to deny this.

Peace,
Ed
 
Spirithound said:
It depends on what precisely you mean by “denial of the Holocaust”.

It seems to me that people who deny the entire Holocaust are into conspiracy theories and probably anti-Semitism.

I believe that there are also those who wish to look at the historical evidence, and draw either factual or erroneous conclusions. Unfortunately, it seems we are not able to talk about this yet.
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Why not? Tell us what we are not able to talk about yet.
 
StrawberryJam said:
Why not? Tell us what we are not able to talk about yet.
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Because it’s a crime in Germany, Austria, and Canada (in Canada, not specifically, just according to the interpretation of “literature likely to incite hatred”).

Outside the legal sphere, it’s still too much of an emotional topic. Remember the uproar surrounding Bishop Williamson? He wanted to make a specific observation, and people jumped all over him (metaphorically), and demanded that his excommunication not be lifted (even though it was for a completely different matter).
 
I’ll have to do some research but there are some books out that discuss holocaust denial and support for neo-nazi policies.

I think I read that holocaust denial is necessary if you want to put nazi philosophy back on the table politically speaking. Other aspects of nazism, if you squint and fracture your basic humanity, can make sense. There is an organic thing such as a “Volk” or people called Aryans. The Aryan people have risen to their present position through competition and conquest of other inferior peoples. The government of the Aryan people should encourage more competition and conquest of inferior peoples.

Everyone wants to be top dog. So identifying with a winning people, Aryans, can build support for a government that promises spoils of conquest of inferiors to people who think they are Aryans.

But the murder of 6+ million Jews by nazis and nazi sympathizers means the ideas of nazism cannot be openly expressed in politics. The whole holocaust reality makes discussion of nazi revival impossible. So you have to deny or get rid of the reality of 6+ million dead Jews as a direct consequence of nazism. Therefore nazi fans twist and turn, fuss and cuss, and deny, deny, deny, that nazis built death camps to exterminate Jews.

Related threads here that might make sense to us Americans is the whole “slavery didn’t cause the Civil War” argument. Again, the ideas of the confederacy such as local rule, inequality of people based on skin color, legal deference to people whom God anointed as natural rulers like white men, and a hierarchy of races with whites as natural masters on top and blacks as natural slaves can be attractive. Especially if you’re a white man .

But to bring back the confederacy and make this ideal legal again, you have to get past the whole slavery thing. Slavery is still considered evil. Over 600,000 died in the Civil War. So you have to somehow discount slavery as essential to southern secession and civil war. So confederacy fans twist and turn, fuss and cuss, and deny, deny, deny that slavery was the cause of the Civil War.

Evil, ain’t it! :eek:
 
Spirithound said:
Because it’s a crime in Germany, Austria, and Canada (in Canada, not specifically, just according to the interpretation of “literature likely to incite hatred”).

Outside the legal sphere, it’s still too much of an emotional topic. Remember the uproar surrounding Bishop Williamson? He wanted to make a specific observation, and people jumped all over him (metaphorically), and demanded that his excommunication not be lifted (even though it was for a completely different matter).
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It’s not a crime to discuss it here.

Bishop Williamson is a case you could clarify for me if you wish.

I’d be happy to expand my knowledge about his case.
 
edwest2 said:
Sell books? Really? I work in book publishing and I know people are generally not becoming wealthy putting out books aside from the occasional Stephen King. Did you know that 70% of published books make little to no money?

I think it would be valuable to list some of the reasons published authors use to deny this event.

It is a crime in Germany and Austria, I believe, to deny this.

Peace,
Ed
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If it’s one thing I disrespect in discussion more than anything it is this type of reply.
The “I know something you don’t know but am not telling”

Spit it out or don’t start spitting it.
 
StrawberryJam said:
And I posted this in the Philosophy forum to find catholics who understand Philosophy to discuss this.

Thank you for your insights.
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I posted. What do you think about the connection between holocaust denial and support of neo-nazi policies?

What aspects of nazism would people support if not for the 6+ million dead Jews? What parts of nazism should be brought into political discussion today? Is Jewish genocide a detail of nazism or it’s essence?

These are philosophical questions posted in the philosophy forum. What are your answers?
 
I haven’t kept up with the topic in recent years, but I recall years ago that even the most virulent anti-Semites (usually neo-Nazis) who denied the Holocaust, did not deny the murder of Jews and other minority groups, but rather the scope and dimensions of the mass-murder operation involved as well as the sheer number of deaths. They talked about thousands who were killed instead of millions. I myself was not aware until recently that there were hundreds of camps, mainly extermination camps and also labor camps. We always hear about only a handful, such as Auschwitz, Dachau, Treblinka, and Buchenwald. I think that most of the deniers are quite simply racist; but some Germans may wish to block this dark era of their national history from their consciousness.
 
puzzleannie said:
besides total ignorance of 20th c European history?
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😉

Yes, I am actually trying to probe the “besides” factors.

Struggling with several different thoughts, and just trying to plumb through it all.

I agree it would require total ignorance to hold such a position, but I am unsure if that is the only factor that plays a part in this type of denialism.
 
Dusty David,

Why are you replying to me with my reply to “St.” C’s post? Is there a reason you did so?
 
dusty_david said:
I posted. What do you think about the connection between holocaust denial and support of neo-nazi policies?

What aspects of nazism would people support if not for the 6+ million dead Jews? What parts of nazism should be brought into political discussion today? Is Jewish genocide a detail of nazism or it’s essence?

These are philosophical questions posted in the philosophy forum. What are your answers?
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Why are you using my reply to another poster to pose this question?
 
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