The quote isn’t from Jerome. It is from Cajetan. If Jerome corrected himself, Cajetan missed it.
BTW, I’ve made none of the arguments from the link.
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Q. What Is the Greatest of All Protestant “Heresies”? A. Assurance
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BTW, I’ve made none of the arguments from the link.
Neither did Luther’s. In both cases, they were opinions. In both cases, those opinions were permitted.
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nodelink
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Agree. This Scripture (Romans 11:22) from Paul contradicts OSAS (Once-Saved-Always-Saved and so do many more from Paul and other New Testament writers).
The deuterocanonical books are not found in the Hebrew Bible. They were added by the Catholic Church at the Council of Trent after Luther rejected it.
A ridiculous argument. A basic understanding of history refutes this.
Christ and the Apostles frequently quoted Old Testament Scripture as their authority, but they never quoted from the deuterocanonical books, nor did they even mention them. Clearly, if these books were part of Scripture, the Lord would have cited them.
I’ve never made that argument. It is another weak one.
The deuterocanonical books contain historical, geographical, and moral errors, so they can’t be inspired Scripture.
Absolutely true, but not necessarily a reason to claim it isn’t canon. Luther makes that claim about Judith, Tobit, and 2 Macc, and I’m not convinced.
The deuterocanonical books themselves deny that they are inspired Scripture.
I’ve never made this argument, either.
The early Church Fathers, such as St. Athanasius and St. Jerome (who translated the official Bible of the Catholic Church), rejected the deuterocanonical books as Scripture, and the Catholic Church added these books to the canon at the Council of Trent.
The first part is true, the second part is only partially true. The local synods at Rome, Hippo, and Carthage, all seem to be affirmed by Trent. But it is before Trent that many a Catholic provides opinion on the canon that does not match. In other words, they were allowed to state an opinion.
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Well said. Baptize and teach, as per the Great Commission
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steve-b
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So you’re excusing Luther , Henry VIII, Calvin, etc etc etc all corrupters of the faith. And those corruptions are still with us today. BTW we still have indulgences. Just because some in the Church abused the teaching didn’t corrupt the entire Church. For all we know, the consequences for those who divided / revolted, was levied on them by God when they died.steve-b:
No. Of course not. Just recognizing that there was blame enough to go around, but the atmosphere that incubated the Reformation was, at least in part, the Church’s corruption.JonNC:
Had a few people to see before thanksgivingsteve-b:
Some might argue that every Bishop of Rome has since 1054. Some might, I won’t. What I will say is Leo and the corruption in the Church created the atmosphere for the Reformation. Luther never happens except for the Church making possible.
Schism and division happens at least as much before of what is happening within the Church as what happens outside it.
Anyway, back in the saddle.
Jon,
Are you making light, even discounting, schism and division?
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Well said. The Great Commission of Matthew 28 was given to 11. The command included: “teach them to obey all that I commanded you” (commanded the 11 Apostles).
The eleven disciples went to Galilee, to the mountain to which Jesus had ordered them. When they saw him, they worshiped, but they doubted. Then Jesus approached and said to them, “All power in heaven and on earth has been given to me. Go, therefore, and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the holy Spirit, teaching them to observe all that I have commanded you. And behold, I am with you always, until the end of the age.” - Matthew 28:16-20
Faith that is naked, sterile, fruitless, heady, high-minded, insincere, unaccompanied by heart and action (works) is graceless and insufficient for guaranteeing complete and enduring justification and sanctification.
Jesus said: “All power in heaven and on earth has been given to me.” implies in this context that powers were also being shared with the 11 Apostles (and their successors).
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steve-b
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I told you before, you need to open the links I give you. It shows the proof of what I’m giving you.steve-b:
The deuterocanonical books are not found in the Hebrew Bible. They were added by the Catholic Church at the Council of Trent after Luther rejected it.
Read what Pope Damasus I wrote Decree of Pope Saint Damasus from the Acts of the Roman Synod (382 AD
As far as Jews, who are you trying to lecture on this? Jesus established His Church, the Catholic Church. The name is in writing from the 1st century. It was in the beginning 100% Jewish. His Church is the pillar and foundation of truth. His Church defined scripture as 73 books OT and NT.
Jimmy Akin says to anyone out there, get back with him if they disagree with this comparison and connection between the NT and OT Deuterocanonical books Deuterocanonical References in the New Testament – Jimmy Akin
Jon,
you forgot Florence. I gave you the link. You didn’t open that one either. That council ended before Luther was even a thought. It was an ecumenical council. It gave the canon by name of books. The canon of scripture is 73 books, and hadn’t changed, from the council of Rome in 382.
Cutting to the chase. There is no more opinion on this. And even if there are those who insist on arguing about this, case is closed. It’s been decided. It’s done.
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Wannano
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My Bible says make disciples, baptize and teach.Muzhik:
Well said. Baptize and teach, as per the Great Commission
Nope. I said enough blame to go around. I wasn’t excluding anyone. I’ve said on this thread already twice, or more, that I believe Luther was wrong about the canon. What I am saying is it wasn’t Luther who opened the door of division.
Yes. To make disciples, one baptizes and teaches
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Wannano
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Out of the dozens upon hundreds of denominations who do not use the Trinitarian form of baptism, could you kindly list ten you are familiar with because other than for cults who do not believe Jesus to be God I do not know of any.
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Wannano
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There is obviously more than one way to understand this but the end result hopefully is the same. Does the Anglican church baptize an adult who knows nothing about Christ and then teach them? I read here that the Catholc church has that person join RCIA and then baptism follows if the person still desires it.Wannano:
Yes. To make disciples, one baptizes and teaches
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nodelink
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Yes, Baptizing and teaching disciples is a start. The rest of the lifestyle flows from that.
For Catholic religious, they make commitments and keep them on a 24/7/365/lifetime basis.
For Catholic married people, they make and keep commitments until “death do us part”.
Living the lifestyle for all involves more that being baptized and being taught. There is sacramental life that includes regular confession and Eucharist. For all, there is growth in grace and sanctification. The Holy Spirit continues to guide and empower the Church.
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Who wants to shrink and reduce the Christian life down to being saved?
Focus on personal salvation is self (person) - centered.
The Old Testament is a source for much unfulfilled prophecy concerning the Messiah, Jesus Christ.
As the seasonal song says: “O come let us adore Him”.
Who wants to shrink and reduce the Bible down to John 3:16 and then presume upon that verse alone?
Paul’s prayer in Ephesians 3:19: “…that you might be filled with all the fullness of God.”
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It isn’t Anglicans or Catholics who have placed a limit. We don’t wait to Baptize infants or children. We do expect adults to understand what Baptism means.
So it is both/ and. Make disciples of all nations. Baptize them and teach them, and in some instances, teach them and baptize them.
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Amen. Catholics are not alone in these.JonNC:
Yes, Baptizing and teaching disciples is a start. The rest of the lifestyle flows from that.
For Catholic religious, they make commitments and keep them on a 24/7/365/lifetime basis.
For Catholic married people, they make and keep commitments until “death do us part”.
Living the lifestyle for all involves more that being baptized and being taught. There is sacramental life that includes regular confession and Eucharist. For all, there is growth in grace and sanctification. The Holy Spirit continues to guide and empower the Church.
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Theo520
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There is nothing shrunken or small about trying to live a Christ like life.
No I wasn’t. I thought I made the point. Cajetan knew about Florence, too, I presume.
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nodelink
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Living a Christ-like life is a good thing. Agreed.
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