Q. What Is the Greatest of All Protestant “Heresies”? A. Assurance

[steve-b]

steve-b:

They are an Eastern Church. They are NOT Catholic and therefore NOT in union with the chair of Peter. Therefore, they are NOT the Eastern Church…

They are Catholic and not in communion with the Bishop of Rome

Allow me to quote an Eastern Catholic bishop whose Church was previously Orthodox.

Melkite – Holy Synergy scroll down to his point

"In the Middle East, although both branches claim orthodoxy as well as catholicity, however being Catholic means not Orthodox and being Orthodox means not Catholic.

To be a Catholic Christian means that one accepts the primacy of the Pope of Rome, because he is the successor of St. Peter. To be an Orthodox Christian means that one does not recognize the primacy of the Pope of Rome, but considers him as “first among equals.”

According to the Catholic teaching, Christ did not create a church with five heads of equal importance. He established One Holy Catholic and Apostolic church whose invisible head is the Lord, but whose visible head is the Pope of Rome.

The Code of Canons of the Eastern Churches states it in these terms: “The bishop of the Church of Rome, in whom resides the office (munus) given in a special way by the Lord to Peter, first of the Apostles and to be transmitted to his successors, is head of the college of bishops, the Vicar of Christ and Pastor of the entire Church on earth; therefore in virtue of his office (munus) he enjoys supreme, full, immediate and universal ordinary power in the Church which he can always freely exercise.” (Canon 43 of the Code of Canons of the Eastern Churches) If an Orthodox subscribes to the Canon quoted above, he/she can be called Catholic and be considered “united to Rome” or in full communion with the Catholic Church.”

He says things well.

 

[steve-b]

I hear these views and would contend that the church at Rome is not the centerpiece to Christianity, though it believes it is, The RCC is not the measuring stick to all truth, though it thinks it is.
It is not the totality of communion in Christ, though it may think it is.

The centerpiece to all of Christianity is not of this world at all. Division and divisiveness are tools of the enemy (satan) who pits one against the other. Spiritual pride is the oil that works his engine.

Now let’s look at scriptural and history, for the last 2000 years, all properly referenced.

3 links (for space) to give an answer that fits space /post issues

"Trail of Blood" Baptist - #60 by steve-b link 1

"Trail of Blood" Baptist - #61 by steve-b link 2

"Trail of Blood" Baptist - #62 by steve-b link 3

please open all the links.

 

[tgGodsway]

Okay steve b, I read the first link. I get your point.

Why do Roman Catholics feel so offended on this site when I say that I too am Catholic? to which I am?

 

[JonNC]

Triumphalism loosely put = the attitude that one religious creed is superior to all others. Was that definition invented by someone on the wrong side of things, and was ticked off about being told so?

Pope Francis has spoken about it. I don’t think he’d agree with your point of origin.

division, schism, dissension, sedition, standing apart from, having formed pointless (groundless) factions and sects, and that describes Protestantism of all stripes.

And Catholicism, too, since all of those divisions involve the Catholic Church, too.

Steve, you quoting Catholic documents only shows the Catholic POV. I’m not disputing that the Catholic Church has that viewpoint. And you know I respect and honor it. I just disagree with the portions of it that we have long discussed.
But when the day comes that Rome and the other Patriarchs agree on what primacy actually means, something they haven’t agreed on for half of the life of the Church since Pentecost, I will submit to that decision. As for now, neither side convinces.

 

[steve-b]

steve-b:

Triumphalism loosely put = the attitude that one religious creed is superior to all others. Was that definition invented by someone on the wrong side of things, and was ticked off about being told so?

Pope Francis has spoken about it. I don’t think he’d agree with your point of origin.

Pope Francis is opposed to proselytism. How does he identify it?
Key: tactics to avoid,
Deception, Force, coercion, emotional manipulation, threats, bribery
Or another inappropriate tactics
Don’t Violate free choice
Using motives, contrary to the spirit of the Gospel;

I use NONE of that

division, schism, dissension, sedition, standing apart from, having formed pointless (groundless) factions and sects, and that describes Protestantism of all stripes.

JonNC:

And Catholicism, too, since all of those divisions involve the Catholic Church, too.

Divisions FROM the Catholic Church is the issue.

JonNC:

Steve, you quoting Catholic documents only shows the Catholic POV.

Jon,

The bible is a Catholic Church set of canonized documents . Written in by and for the CC.

JonNC:

I’m not disputing that the Catholic Church has that viewpoint. And you know I respect and honor it. I just disagree with the portions of it that we have long discussed.

I quoted primarily from Jesus, and Paul, and in a secondary manner, the CCC. The CCC sections I quoted from, summarizes the previous 2 on the issue being discussed.

JonNC:

But when the day comes that Rome and the other Patriarchs agree on what primacy actually means, something they haven’t agreed on for half of the life of the Church since Pentecost, I will submit to that decision. As for now, neither side convinces.

Jon,

Again you didn’t open the links given.

I will add another link that you probably won’t open either. So I’ll quote from #'s 3 & 4

"3. In Christian literature, the expression begins to be used in the East when, from the fifth century, the idea of the Pentarchy gained ground, … only a primacy of honour be accorded to the See of Rome.It should be noted too that this patriarchal structure typical of the East never developed in the West.
4. The expression appears again in two letters of the Metropolitan Nicetas of Nicodemia (in the year 1136) and the Patriarch John X Camaterus (in office from 1198 to 1206), in which they protested that Rome…
From: http://www.vatican.va/roman_curia/c...on_cfaith_doc_20000630_chiese-sorelle_en.html

Back in the early days of the old forum, Fr Ambrose a Russian Orthodox priest had the following answer.

Oct 20, '06, 6:13 pm
Fr Ambrose

was asked

Re:
I would appreciate a modern or ancient analogy of how one is first among equals

Fr Ambrose answer
"There is no such thing as a first among equals; this is a nonsensical term. If someone is first, the others are not equal; if all are equal, then none is first."

 

[steve-b]

Okay steve b, I read the first link. I get your point.

Why do Roman Catholics feel so offended on this site when I say that I too am Catholic? to which I am?

Because of your own words.

"I was raised Roman Catholic and experienced a powerful manifestation of the holy Spirit at Holy Rosary Catholic Church in 1980. This experience so impressed and changed me to live for Christ, that it compelled me to make some real “life-style” change. I eventually left my home Church to explore beyond Catholicism. And to this day I live for Christ.

So I ask you

What part of the following isn’t being understood?

[ διχοστασίαι ] = http://bibleapps.com/greek/1370.htm = division, schism, dissension, sedition, standing apart from, having formed pointless (groundless) factions and sects, and that describes Protestantism of all stripes.

That describes what you joined after you left the Catholic Church

As the CCC defines
2089
Incredulity is the neglect of revealed truth or the willful refusal to assent to it. “Heresy is the obstinate post-baptismal denial of some truth which must be believed with divine and catholic faith, or it is likewise an obstinate doubt concerning the same; apostasy is the total repudiation of the Christian faith; schism is the refusal of submission to the Roman Pontiff or of communion with the members of the Church subject to him.”
is the neglect of revealed truth or the willful refusal to assent to it. “Heresy is the obstinate post-baptismal denial of some truth which must be believed with divine and catholic faith, or it is likewise an obstinate doubt concerning the same; apostasy is the total repudiation of the Christian faith; schism is the refusal of submission to the Roman Pontiff or of communion with the members of the Church subject to him.”

That is all condemned activity as one will see in scripture and tradition.

 

[steve-b]

Okay steve b, I read the first link. I get your point.

Why do Roman Catholics feel so offended on this site when I say that I too am Catholic? to which I am?

BTW, it doesn’t show that you opened the first link. Are you sure you read THAT link? None of them have been opened.

 

[tgGodsway]

well I opened it and read a full page of stuff. Are you saying that what I read wasn’t the link?.. okay… I’ll go back.

 

[steve-b]

tg,

none of these links on post 204 showed any action. Which link did you open and read Q. What Is the Greatest of All Protestant “Heresies”? A. Assurance - #204 by steve-b

 

[MT1926]

Okay steve b, I read the first link. I get your point.

Why do Roman Catholics feel so offended on this site when I say that I too am Catholic? to which I am?

Not to jump into the middle of this discussion but I would probably say it is because you are not Catholic.
In order to be a Catholic you would need to be a part of the Catholic community in line with the Pope. I would say you could probably say that you are a catholic.