Qualities for a husband I have come up with.. :)

[chevalier]

You wouldn’t have to be in that mode all the time, you would just have to do it enough to get classified as strong and confident. I don’t know on a practical level how frequently you’d have to do it. I can’t even think of particular things you’d have to do to show it.

And that basically means “be a good enough actor to pass the test”, besides, as I said, the real confidence is the calmness of a good warrior or professional anyway. Confidence is as often recalled as it is wrongly read. And the more I think about it, the less I care… It’s not like my confidence depends on a woman’s appreciation of it!

Maybe it’s something about the way you carry yourself? Articulating your views when appropriate (which I doubt you have any issues with), not being the kind of person who asks for reassurance over and over, not letting others walk all over you, not giving up when things get tough, being reasonably successful in your professional life are some things I can think of.

Tick all. Another theory I coined today was that I smile too often and am too friendly and non-hostile, unlike that dark dood who’s kinda impenetrable.

But it doesn’t mean that you can never be shy or ask for reassurance or fail at something. It just can’t be the norm.

I basically mentioned those things in order to point out the fetishisation of confidence, which is a trait I kinda have plenty of and at the same time kinda laugh at, but hey, sense of humour < dark & brooding.

Maybe, it’s hard to think of others, because like Jay you also sound like you are a catch.

:tiphat: Thankee.

Maybe you guys need to be taking the ladies skydiving, driving them around fast on snowmobiles,

Oh yes and have a built-in phenylethylamine dispenser. Nah, all my friends know excitement is plenty where I thread, so it must be something different.

playing “football” where you have to catch and pin down (for some reason I find running away and being physically chased exciting haha), and maybe being more sexually suggestive (but obviously not committing any grave sins).

Not gonna happen. I have too much anthropology in me to ignore, let alone tolerate any crude sexual behaviours (primitive mating habits), I don’t feel like putting myself on sale sexually and more importantly, I don’t want to commit *any *sins (and there’s plenty enough I commit anyway), not to mention actually it’s pretty hard if at all possible to find non-grave matter under the 6th (Aquinas believed it didn’t exist). Basically, fully knowingly and willingly causing or receiving sexual gratification is mortal, while perhaps having some things amiss and consciously being rather crude could be venial. As far as I go, indication of interest by actions with regard to a person, as well as displaying affection and interest even physically, is plenty enough to show someone you’re interested. And people generally know it by these signs. In my view, needing additional proof, as in needing a man or woman to lose himself and give in a bit is a sign of either pride or some maladjustment, something that needs to be worked on by the person experiencing it.

 

[Jay82]

Why aren’t you ever suggestive?

I suppose it is because I always try to be a gentleman and be as well mannered as possible. It probably has to do with how I was raised and the role models I had. My father and grandfathers were always very polite and acted like gentleman around all women. Throughout my entire life I never heard any of them say anything inappropriate/vulgar about a woman in any regard (joking or serious). It didn’t matter if it was only guys present, they still wouldn’t say anything suggestive or inappropriate to try to impress others or to get laughs. If a scantily clad woman appeared on tv, walked by us at the park, etc they would never make a remark in a bad way. This was in stark contrast to some of my friend’s fathers that I had spent time with over the years.

So as a result, I guess I subconsciously followed their lead. They all have/had long lasting marriages and I have always felt they were a good example of how to conduct myself. More so, it goes well with my nature…it just is how I am.

 

[chevalier]

So as a result, I guess I subconsciously followed their lead. They all have/had long lasting marriages and I have always felt they were a good example of how to conduct myself. More so, it goes well with my nature…it just is how I am.

And you did, and do, well.

 

[flyingfish]

I suppose it is because I always try to be a gentleman and be as well mannered as possible. It probably has to do with how I was raised and the role models I had. My father and grandfathers were always very polite and acted like gentleman around all women. Throughout my entire life I never heard any of them say anything inappropriate/vulgar about a woman in any regard (joking or serious). It didn’t matter if it was only guys present, they still wouldn’t say anything suggestive or inappropriate to try to impress others or to get laughs. If a scantily clad woman appeared on tv, walked by us at the park, etc they would never make a remark in a bad way. This was in stark contrast to some of my friend’s fathers that I had spent time with over the years.

So as a result, I guess I subconsciously followed their lead. They all have/had long lasting marriages and I have always felt they were a good example of how to conduct myself. More so, it goes well with my nature…it just is how I am.

Oh hmm, that is not what I meant by suggestive. I was thinking more of letting a woman know that you desire her.

 

[Jay82]

Oh hmm, that is not what I meant by suggestive. I was thinking more of letting a woman know that you desire her.

Ahh, yeah, I suppose misunderstood what you meant. I think I view ‘suggestive’ as something slightly different than you.

 

[royal_archer]

Pressing women against objects like walls is exciting, and not overtly sexual.

Do the other women on this thread also advocate this kind of assault?

 

[royal_archer]

In nature, the males of any species have a hard time reproducing, and the competition for females is stiff. You can be upset about it.

In nature Man’s role is as a provider. However in our society many women do not seek out good providers. Instead the go for exciting and charismatic and then all to often they wind up divorced, on welfare, or both. Wanna guess why us family types have limmited pity for them?

 

[dakotagirl]

It’s not like my confidence depends on a woman’s appreciation of it!

Ding-ding. Yes, you get it. You wouldn’t be obsessing over this, would you?

 

[dakotagirl]

Do the other women on this thread also advocate this kind of assault?

Scary good point, yo.

 

[royal_archer]

Well, Flyingfish, I don’t really want to take it on the supply vs demand level applied to evolutionary-kinda observations. I took jabs at confidence pretty much without direct self-interest, noticing how it was a bigger “fetish” than looks were for a woman. Personally, I can pull off a lot of confidence (I sued my own attorney general and went into the courtroom without any notes, 'nuff said), but it doesn’t feel that great to think I’d be expected to be in that mode 100% of the time or that my other qualities, some of which I’d value greater than confidence, wouldn’t even be noticed. Besides, real confidence is about being calm and not having to *play *alpha.

(My actual problem is more along the lines of chemistry passing away soon (theirs, not mine) or some other stable reason for getting friended despite initial attraction being rather flashy.)

It’s generally reasonable to expect similar levels of whatever, but some whatevers differ between sexes or can’t take the same from the counterparty, meaning stuff gets complicated.

I am gessing they do not see the difference between confident and cocky-arrogant-self centered-megalomaniac. It has been my experience that the ruder you are to women the more attracted they are to you. Unfortunately that is not in my nature and I always tend to revert back to the nice guy. I guess maybe when I was younger I should have cut out the flowers.

 

[trinichiqn]

What I am looking for is

Practicing Catholic
Educated
Hardworking and Ambitious
Articulate
Outgoing
Attractive (Beauty is in the eye of the beholder)
Wants kids
Decisive
Sense of humor
In control but not controlling
Gentle
Understanding
Lovable
A Friend
Tall (I’m 5’ 9")

 

[royal_archer]

Scary good point, yo.

And look at the women who keep going back to abusive spouses while men who are kind and respectful are called wimps. And people wonder why there are so many battered women out there.

 

[sanctamaria17]

Hey, I’d watch the comments on battered women. There’s a real psychological pattern, as well as manipulation. Some batterers make the most convincing nice guys and lure women into their traps.

There are those of us women who want respectable, tender guys…Problem…they all end up being gay, or the “You’re my friend, like my sister and there’s nothing wrong with you but I can’t date you” or there are the really bossy, forward, self-righteous guys who think they deserve to be treated like gods or the guys who have no idea how to say hi to a woman…

All my guy friends are gay or like my big brothers. Yes, they’re all taken.

I’ve been hit on so many times by jerks and guys who just wanted to get in my pants. I’ve been grabbed, stalked, had my name leaked at school when I reported someone for harassment, and nearly assaulted. If someone pressed me against a wall, you can bet I’d hit him where it hurts and scream as loud as I could, it’s triggering, just like guys’ explicit talk about girls is triggering. I’d give anything for a nice guy who makes me feel comfortable and just wants to go to coffee with me. I’d give anything to be held gently, with no expectation of anything more. And I’d give anything for someone I can pray with. Seriously.

 

[mjs1987]

I’d give anything for a nice guy who makes me feel comfortable and just wants to go to coffee with me. I’d give anything to be held gently, with no expectation of anything more. And I’d give anything for someone I can pray with. Seriously.

My first relationship was like this. In the end, she decided she didnt like the nice religious guy type. So I am single and would rather be single than to push a girl for sex or make her feel uncomfortable.

 

[royal_archer]

Hey, I’d watch the comments on battered women. There’s a real psychological pattern, as well as manipulation. Some batterers make the most convincing nice guys and lure women into their traps.

There are those of us women who want respectable, tender guys…Problem…they all end up being gay, or the “You’re my friend, like my sister and there’s nothing wrong with you but I can’t date you” or there are the really bossy, forward, self-righteous guys who think they deserve to be treated like gods or the guys who have no idea how to say hi to a woman…

All my guy friends are gay or like my big brothers. Yes, they’re all taken.

I’ve been hit on so many times by jerks and guys who just wanted to get in my pants. I’ve been grabbed, stalked, had my name leaked at school when I reported someone for harassment, and nearly assaulted. If someone pressed me against a wall, you can bet I’d hit him where it hurts and scream as loud as I could, it’s triggering, just like guys’ explicit talk about girls is triggering. I’d give anything for a nice guy who makes me feel comfortable and just wants to go to coffee with me. I’d give anything to be held gently, with no expectation of anything more. And I’d give anything for someone I can pray with. Seriously.

There are men out there who are predators whom many women see the surface of that predatory nature as “confidence”. Underneath, it is just focused aggression.

I new plenty of guys who were what you described but most of them were not trolling the singles bars, they spent most of their time pursuing interest other than the social scene.

 

[chevalier]

Ding-ding. Yes, you get it. You wouldn’t be obsessing over this, would you?

Umm… I wouldn’t know, Your Insightfulness.

I am gessing they do not see the difference between confident and cocky-arrogant-self centered-megalomaniac. It has been my experience that the ruder you are to women the more attracted they are to you. Unfortunately that is not in my nature and I always tend to revert back to the nice guy. I guess maybe when I was younger I should have cut out the flowers.

I *am *a cocky, arrogant, self-centred megalomaniac but I treat them well and never am rude. I certainly am not going to cut out the flowers, either.

And look at the women who keep going back to abusive spouses while men who are kind and respectful are called wimps. And people wonder why there are so many battered women out there.

We’ve done our share of chasing the “wrong” women ourselves, I think, such as being after those women who’d pick jerks before us. Plus, while naive and falling prey easily, they have some point in believing in love that endures and changes people (who knows how many a bad man turned good because of a woman that stuck with him).

Hey, I’d watch the comments on battered women. There’s a real psychological pattern, as well as manipulation. Some batterers make the most convincing nice guys and lure women into their traps.

There are those of us women who want respectable, tender guys…Problem…they all end up being gay, or the “You’re my friend, like my sister and there’s nothing wrong with you but I can’t date you” or there are the really bossy, forward, self-righteous guys who think they deserve to be treated like gods or the guys who have no idea how to say hi to a woman…

For the record, does gay mean actually gay or just an impression from not being seen chasing women? Secondly, “having no idea how to say hi to a woman,” doesn’t prevent a man from being a respectable, tender guy (especially when he’s young). Therefore, there’s another factor here, which is…?

 

[flyingfish]

Do the other women on this thread also advocate this kind of assault?

Obviously I didn’t mean forced. Actually, from talking to guys a lot of women like this kind of thing, and since it only involves body contact/pressure it doesn’t seem like it would be sinful.

 

[chevalier]

Obviously I didn’t mean forced. Actually, from talking to guys a lot of women like this kind of thing, and since it only involves body contact/pressure it doesn’t seem like it would be sinful.

Per se not, so say, if there were a valid reason and so on, it would not be sinful, but with a bad enough reason, it could. What matters is the intent to cause sexual gratification or to obtain it. I don’t want to split hairs about minuscule things that basically raise the blood pressure and that’s it, but overt sexual movements are basically crude and disrespectful and they don’t seem to coincide with the dignity of a human being as a child of God. Certainly, it’s not the reverent way in which a gentleman should treat a lady, either. A woman should look for affirmation elsewhere, too, a more wholesome one, including her whole person, not only her body as something to use for pleasure (and the person should always be more important than the pleasure).

Women who like that kind of thing are probably somewhat insecure and a bit vulnerable in terms of self-esteem. I wish they could make the leap of faith and start looking for appreciation as something more than sexual objects. I know where they come from because I had the same problem several years ago. It’s not alien to me.

 

[Jay82]

There are those of us women who want respectable, tender guys…Problem…they all end up being gay, or the “You’re my friend, like my sister and there’s nothing wrong with you but I can’t date you” or there are the really bossy, forward, self-righteous guys who think they deserve to be treated like gods or the guys who have no idea how to say hi to a woman…

Unfortunately you aren’t the only woman who holds that perception or has had that experience. On the plus side… a good number of the guys who have trouble approaching women will eventually grow of their shyness and as they get older will find that women are quite receptive to them. Or you just have to be really good at breaking the ice with them and making them feel comfortable…meet them in an environment where they would feel comfortable. What I mean by this is that guy who is really good at XYZ may be really quiet at a bar, but put him in an environment where his area of expertise/interest is the main focus and all of a sudden he’ll have more confidence…it would be easier to get to know a ‘good shy guy’ under those circumstances.

Oh hmm, that is not what I meant by suggestive. I was thinking more of letting a woman know that you desire her.

I do let women know I desire them, but probably not well enough at times.

My first relationship was like this. In the end, she decided she didnt like the nice religious guy type. So I am single and would rather be single than to push a girl for sex or make her feel uncomfortable.

Yeah, I agree. I won’t make unwelcome advances or do something I think would make her feel uncomfortable. While I think this is good, it can mislead the girl into thinking you aren’t really that interested in her. I guess it is a fine line of how to show you desire the girl you like and going too far.

 

[flyingfish]

I do let women know I desire them, but probably not well enough at times.

I had another thought. I’ve had some experiences with men who went a step further than abstaining from everything remotely sexual, and would actually have a very negative and dark view of sex. Would talk about how disgusting/evil sexual aspects of our culture are.

Hearing that would frankly scare me, and I would start to wonder if this man would think I was worthless/disgusting/subhuman if I were to express my desire for him (even after marriage).

So maybe that’s another thing to consider, I don’t know if these types of discussions come up, but if they do maybe stress how you think sex is awesome and great and you can’t wait to have it once you’re married but alas you must wait, and not make comments about how it disgusts you/makes you want to throw up (I actually had a guy tell me that, and it gave me nightmares).