Queen irked at Vatican move

[CDNowak]

That is not what I wrote. I am correcting a common lie that King Henry started a new Church. The problem was initially a matter of who he and the English bishops felt could interfere in the internal policies of the country. The fact is the Pope was doing just that. Anglican orders at the time were as valid as all other branches of Catholicism. They did finally lose the right to claim this when they invented the “priesthood” of women. On the other hand, the traditional Anglicans, those His Holiness has recognized as having valid succession and Sacrament and now formed into smaller offshoots of the Anglican Communion, have perfectly valid Sacraments and Orders.

I would like to know how Henry failed to start a new church. He did effect the schism (executing the one bishop who refused to sign the Act of Supremecy, along with the former Lord Chancellor, one Tomas More). He instituted the Monarch as the “supreme head on earth of the Church in England”. At this point the Anglican Church exist, schismatic but not yet heretical, that came under his son.

The Anglicans lost valid orders long before they attempted to ordain women, according to Apostolicae Curae it was the changing of the rite of ordination under Edward VI (Henry’s heir) in the 1500’s that invalidated their orders.

 

[redrosetea]

We have no proof the Queen is irked at all… We only know someone is claiming she is

I suspect she gets the blame for a lot, just like the Pope does

 

[JKirkLVNV]

Assuming you are not being flippant, I have to ask, what on earth makes you think that the Catholic church wants the hundreds of pre-Reformation churches back, with all the problems of upkeep and repairs that would involve? Every Anglican church seems to have one of those displays outside, showing how far they are in their fundraising, and appealing for donations.

Why would the Catholic church want them, especially as we have plenty of churches of our own? Too many, in fact, in some areas. Not to mention the fact that many of the pre-Reformation can’t be altered, as they are historical, so congregations are stuck with rood-screens blocking-off the sanctuary. The land they are standing on would have some value, but only in theory, since they can’t be demolished.

Um, actually, there are quite a few people who’d like to see Canterbury Cathedral, Westminster Abbey et al, as well as the Hagia Sophia, returned to the Church. No one takes it seriously, but if the Anglicans continue to dwindle, they’ll eventually be museums (as is the Hagia Sophia in Constantinople…er, Istanbul). Wouldn’t it be better to return them and have the Holy Sacrifice offered at their high altars again?

 

[bilop]

Um, actually, there are quite a few people who’d like to see Canterbury Cathedral, Westminster Abbey et al, as well as the Hagia Sophia, returned to the Church. No one takes it seriously, but if the Anglicans continue to dwindle, they’ll eventually be museums (as is the Hagia Sophia in Constantinople…er, Istanbul). Wouldn’t it be better to return them and have the Holy Sacrifice offered at their high altars again?

Why shouldn’t we have Westminster Abbey and Cantebury? They were stolen.

Somebody should be working on Elizabeth, or one on her heirs, to simply convert, and bring the whole Anglican apparatus back, lock, stock and barrel.

God Bless

 

[Stylites]

We have no proof the Queen is irked at all… We only know someone is claiming she is

I suspect she gets the blame for a lot, just like the Pope does

If she were irked at anything at all, I would hope it would be from the sorry condition and moral chaos which Anglicanism has become.

.

 

[Rich_Olszewski]

And since when does the Pope have to advise anyone of what he decides to do?

Since he became a player in international matters. It’s called diplomacy and the Pope is as capable of it as anyone else.

 

[NPC]

Why shouldn’t we have Westminster Abbey and Cantebury? They were stolen.

Somebody should be working on Elizabeth, or one on her heirs, to simply convert, and bring the whole Anglican apparatus back, lock, stock and barrel.

God Bless

They’d have to change the 1701 laws of succession then! At present, a Catholic cannot rule the United Kingdom - should an heir convert to Catholicism or marry a Catholic, they must give up their right of succession. This has happened a few times over the past century, though mainly from those who were quite far down the succession line. Interestingly though, even though the monarch would be the head of the Anglican Communion and cannot be a Catholic, only Catholics are specifically ruled out. So there could be a Jewish, Buddhist, Muslim or Evangelical Christian monarch, but the doors are closed to anyone who adheres to the “popish religion”…

I agree with Stylites that if the Queen of England should be mourning anything it should be the sorry state of affairs in her own Anglican Communion. Surely if she were to take a step back and look at the big picture, she wouldn’t be in the least bit surprised that His Holiness has made such a generous offer to her subjects.

 

[bilop]

They’d have to change the 1701 laws of succession then! At present, a Catholic cannot rule the United Kingdom - should an heir convert to Catholicism or marry a Catholic, they must give up their right of succession. This has happened a few times over the past century, though mainly from those who were quite far down the succession line. Interestingly though, even though the monarch would be the head of the Anglican Communion and cannot be a Catholic, only Catholics are specifically ruled out. So there could be a Jewish, Buddhist, Muslim or Evangelical Christian monarch, but the doors are closed to anyone who adheres to the “popish religion”…

But, the Monarch is head of the Church of England. She would just be bringing it back into union with Rome. She could just tell Parliament to sod off.

 

[CDNowak]

But, the Monarch is head of the Church of England. She would just be bringing it back into union with Rome. She could just tell Parliament to sod off.

Hasn’t worked that way in a long time.

 

[NPC]

But, the Monarch is head of the Church of England. She would just be bringing it back into union with Rome. She could just tell Parliament to sod off.

I don’t know the intricacies of the relationship between the monarch and the British government, but I don’t think it would be as simple as that unfortunately…It illegal for the monarch to be a Catholic - if the monarch were to convert to Catholicism (even if they told the parliament to sod off!) their reign would ipso facto be illegitimate and void. I imagine the first move has to come from the British parliament, and I can’t imagine it upsetting the status quo re the monarchy at the moment - I can’t imagine the House of Lords supporting a bill to allow Catholics to rule and inherit the throne. Unless and until the 300 year old Act of Succession is changed, the monarch cannot legally reign as a Catholic - they can be of any other denomination or faith as long as they accept the responsibility of being Fidei Defensor of the Anglican Communion. Admittedly, though, it would be interesting to see what would happen if the Queen of England was to announce tomorrow that she is converting to Catholicism!

 

[CDNowak]

I don’t know the intricacies of the relationship between the monarch and the British government, but I don’t think it would be as simple as that unfortunately…It illegal for the monarch to be a Catholic - if the monarch were to convert to Catholicism (even if they told the parliament to sod off!) their reign would ipso facto be illegitimate and void. I imagine the first move has to come from the British parliament, and I can’t imagine it upsetting the status quo re the monarchy at the moment - I can’t imagine the House of Lords supporting a bill to allow Catholics to rule and inherit the throne. Unless and until the 300 year old Act of Succession is changed, the monarch cannot legally reign as a Catholic - they can be of any other denomination or faith as long as they accept the responsibility of being Fidei Defensor of the Anglican Communion. Admittedly, though, it would be interesting to see what would happen if the Queen of England was to announce tomorrow that she is converting to Catholicism!

There was some talk a while ago about changing the Act of Succession, but it was seen as a purely political move (PM trying to win Catholic votes, or some such). It essentially would be a complex affair, with the de facto head of the Anglican communion (Archbishop of Canterbury) and Parliament ultimately ousting the titular head of state.

Of course it would be the most delicious scandal and all that talk for weeks, and then completely forgotten a month later, despite this being something actually worth dying for, God and country.

 

[canadianguy1143]

Since he became a player in international matters. It’s called diplomacy and the Pope is as capable of it as anyone else.

If a refugee from Iran or China were permitted to become American citizens, should the President have to advise the leaders of those countries?

 

[aicirt]

Of course you do have a point re the Catholic Church already having enough churches in some areas & that it does not need to take on the difficulties associated with maintaining old buildings. However, we have heard certain Anglican bishops declare that if some of their ministers and communities convert to the Catholic Church, they would not allow them to take the associated property with them. It wouldn’t be unreasonable, as far as I can see, to request that such Anglican bishops return some of the ancient churches and cathedrals to their rightful owner, the Catholic Church. A fair exchange, even if it is 400 years overdue.

If the whole Anglican community wished to convert, I would assume they’d be going to the nearest Catholic Church. If this conversion ended up with an empty Anglican Church, maybe the new Catholics could rent it from the government. That way Queen would have income and the people would have a place to worship.

 

[Lepanto]

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Queen irked at Vatican move***

The queen? The queen of what?

 

[fcgv]

After his EXCOMMUNICATION and subsequient appointment of The archbishop of cantebary he did start his own church. Except in a rare instance there is no Apostolic sucession. The internel affairs that you list is called divorce .

Incorrect. the Pope was interfering in political situations. this had been a problem for years and that was the main reason the King removed alliance with Rome.

 

[fcgv]

The queen? The queen of what?

Twit. The Queen of England and the Commonwealth.

 

[CDNowak]

Incorrect. the Pope was interfering in political situations. this had been a problem for years and that was the main reason the King removed alliance with Rome.

What political situations are you referring to, other than the King’s marriage and attempted divorce?

 

[NPC]

Twit. The Queen of England and the Commonwealth.

I think that’s a bit unfair. It was a fair observation - “the Queen of what” - and something that I would normally pick up on, but didn’t on this occasion. There’s this idea that saying “The Queen” automatically means the Queen of England, whereas there are several other queens in the world besides her. As an Irish person, I dislike when people just call her “the Queen” without specifying which queen - either it implies that there is only one queen, or that the queen in question is the queen of Ireland (obviously a touchy subject here). Surely it’s not unreasonable to expect that she should be referred to by her proper title - in the same way that one can’t expect to talk to a non-United States citizen about the President & assume that they know that you’re talking about the American President.

 

[Soutane]

When a Catholic can become Monarch of the Commonwealth I’ll listen to what Betty Windsor has to say.She’s just another follower of an ersatz faith started by a disobedient,murderous and lustful King.Harry her great great whatever.

 

[garysibio]

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Queen irked at Vatican move

A senior adviser to the Queen met secretly with the leader of the Catholic
Church in England and Wales to express concern over the Pope’s offer for
disaffected Anglicans to convert to Rome.

In a highly unusual step, Earl Peel, the Lord Chamberlain, asked Archbishop of
Westminster Vincent Nichols to meet him in November, a fortnight after Pope
Benedict XVI’s decree.

The Vatican announcement shocked the Church of England and was widely seen as
designed to poach Anglican clergy.

The Queen, who is the Church’s Supreme Governor, was not warned of the move.

,.,_***

She is not amused.