Question about a sexual intimacy problem

[Marie1234]

Thank you, He has. We have our struggles, but so does every marriage. Don’t expect total constant bliss, and you won’t be disappointed.

some good advice!

 

[Marie1234]

My fundamental values

As catholic lay person, my line is the respect of moral natural law of human beings, I mean the humanity, male and female, created by God. My natural values are coming from the Creator. The humanity is composed of males with all the corollaries and also is composed of females with all the corallaries.

In front of God, we are equal in dignity with the same rights, duties and obligations and with special rights, duties and obligations in function of sex: this is the equality and the equity in function of sex. The male is a man, the female is a woman. Man has to stay male, woman has to stay female. Man does not have to want be a female, woman does not have to want be a male, each gender (sex) has to accept its body, its soul with their own corollaries. This is the dual humanity, body and soul and male and female: it is the nature wanted by God. The male has to respect the female and the female has to respect the male.

Because of the original sin and the bad effect of concupiscence, the male wants to dominate the female, and the woman want to seduce, in the wrong way, the male. As catholic, we have to avoid that. it is a moral obligation. Each one has to try to respect its vocation of male and its vocation of female. As catholic man, I have to have a huge consideration for the woman. In my mind, woman is the most beautiful creature of the creation, she is on the top of the natural creation wanted by God. She is potential lover, potential wife and potential mother. For a catholic man, she has to be his natural complementarity. For a catholic, woman is so divine. The bashing of woman is a social and moral scandal. It is very immoral. It is absurd. I do not tolerate that. I am very sad of that.

In the marriage, the woman is or should be the " New Eve of her Man " and the " Saint Mary Magdalene of her husband ", I mean: the Female, the Fiancée, the Bride, the Sweetheart, the Love, the Mistress, the Lover, the Beloved, the Muse, the Friend, the Best-friend, the Girlfriend, the Helper, the Soul-Mate, the Companion, the Partner, the Associate, the Wife and the Potential Mother, the Educator, the Teacher, the Professor, the Thinker, the Philosopher, the Schoolgirl, the Pupil, the Student, the Follower, the Female Opposite Number, the Alterity, the Complementarity, the Princess, the Queen, the Doctress, the Nurse, the Guide of her Husband and the Person who reveals in him, his part of feminity and helps his masculinity. Female has to understand the normal sexuality of her male. Wife is the teacher of the sexuality of her husband, she is also the professor of the sexuality of her husband, and then she is the doctor and love’s master of the sexuality of her husband.

In the marriage, the man is or should be to be the " New Adam of his wife" and the " Holy Beloved of his wife" , I mean: the Male, the Fiancé, the Bridegroom, the Sweetheart, the Love, the Lover, the Beloved, the Companion, the Friend, the Best friend, the Boy-friend, the Helper, the Soul-Mate, the Companion, the Partner, the Associate, the Husband and the potential Father, the Educator, the Teacher, the Professor, the Thinker, the Philosopher, the Master, the Mentor, the Follower, the Schoolboy, the Pupil, the Student, the Male Opposite Number, the Alterity, the Complementarity, The Prince, The King, the Doctor, the Nurse, the Guide of his Wife, and The Person who reveals in her, her part of masculinity and helps her feminity. Husband is the teacher of the sexuality of his wife, he is also the professor of the sexuality of his wife, and then he is the doctor and love’s master of the sexuality of his wife.

In conclusion:
the Masculinism, the radical feminism, the sexism from male, the sexism from female, the theory of gender, the misandry, the misogyny, the theoretical homosexualism, the negationism of alterity and of the complementarity of male and female, the negationism of the sexuation, the relativism of the sexuation…etc. All those heresies or those ideologies are wrong, are dangerous, are not very natural. As catholic, I have to avoid them.

And there are two type of wrong approaches: by nature, by essence, by substance or by circumstances and intentions. Their moral regimes are not the same and have to be different, it is not negotiable.

For instance

the anti-rationalism, the primary anti-personalism, the primary anti-phenomenologism, the absurdism (absurdity or absurdisness), the masculinism, the radical feminism, the sexism from male, the sexism from female, the theory of gender, the misandry, the misogyny, the theoretical homosexualism, the negationism of alterity and of the complementarity of male and female, the negationism of the sexuation, the relativism of the sexuation, the manicheism, the catharism, the jansenism, the fideism, the victorianism, the puritanism, the theoretical providentialism, the moralism, the rigorism, the dolorism, the prudism (the prudishness), the scrupulism, the quietism, the quiverfull movements…etc.

I love this and I completely agree.

The only thing I don’t get is, how can the wife be the teacher and schoolgirl at the same time in a marriage?

I agree, all these ideologies are complete falsehoods. The only Truth is from God through His Church and Law. All sexual “roles” are completely culture-based aside from the ones God has bestowed upon us by nature.

The passage I highlighted in blue is the complete and utter Truth of our human nature. I don’t get why it’s so hard for people to understand?

The purple is my favorite If only our society could view gender this way! Porn would cease to exist, domestic violence would plummet, adultery would decrease. Fewer broken families and more peace and love in the world.

I like the way you think!

 

[TraderTif]

But how would a chaste engaged couple know what questions to ask, let alone what answers to give? If they were doing their best to remain chaste and wait until after their wedding before engaging in sexual intimacy, they would have no way of knowing what to expect, what their needs will be, what their hopes are…
The best they could do is to discuss attitudes and conditioning with which they were raised by their parents and within their culture, and educate themselves on holy marital sexuality as a subject, but issues particular to them as individuals aren’t likely to become apparent until after they say “I do”.

It’s totally doable. My husband and I were virgins, and this was a topic that we spent a lot of time discussing, as it’s important to us both. And, despite being virgins, we were both quite confident in our “libido-estimations”. (Of course that sort of thing will fluctuate with time and circumstances, but I think we wanted to make sure we were both totally comfortable discussing EVERYTHING.) And, although discussing our family backgrounds and how we were raised was helpful, that wasn’t the super-important issue. I mean, I was raised in an environment where libido was thought to be non-existant. (I didn’t realizes that spouses usually share a bedroom, or that spouses could display any noticeable amount of physical affection at ALL, until I was well into my teens.).

None of that stopped me from placing a very different estimate on my own libido. I think most people, even super-chaste virgins with no dating experience, have some basic idea of their sex drive. And, even if their estimates are wrong, future spouses would greatly benefit from the ability to talk openly on this topic, and at least hypothetically discuss possible future scenarios. (In my case, we discussed at length “what if my health problems flare up, and we can’t have sex often, or at all?”, or “What if issues from my background flare up and impair our sex life?”, etc.).

 

[fpt]

I love this and I completely agree.

The only thing I don’t get is, how can the wife be the teacher and schoolgirl at the same time in a marriage?
.

I wished to say that concerning the conjugal sexuality and all the other conjugal issues, each member of couple, at each moment of conjugal life, should be capable to help, to teach the other, but also to receive from the other: alterity, complementarity, mutuality, reciprocity. A husband has several dimensions for his wife. A wife has several dimensions for her husband:

The different level of conjugal life about all topics:
The kindergarden:
The Primary school:
The Secondary School,:
The Grammar school:
The College or the University:
The couple
The family
The work place:
The Hospital:
The Church:

Teacher/pupil;Master/follower; Doctor/patient; Professor / Student;…etc.

 

[fpt]

I love this and I completely agree.

The only thing I don’t get is, how can the wife be the teacher and schoolgirl at the same time in a marriage?

I agree, all these ideologies are complete falsehoods. The only Truth is from God through His Church and Law. All sexual “roles” are completely culture-based aside from the ones God has bestowed upon us by nature.

The passage I highlighted in blue is the complete and utter Truth of our human nature. I don’t get why it’s so hard for people to understand?

The purple is my favorite If only our society could view gender this way! Porn would cease to exist, domestic violence would plummet, adultery would decrease. Fewer broken families and more peace and love in the world.

I like the way you think!

For respecting the equal dignity:

If I was catholic woman (I am a man) , I should have a huge consideration for the man. In my mind, man would be the most beautiful creature of the creation, he would be on the top of the natural creation wanted by God. He would be potential lover, potential husband and potential father. For a catholic woman , he would be her natural complementarity. For a catholic, man would be so divine. The bashing of man is a social and moral scandal. It would be very immoral. It would be absurd. I would not tolerate that. I would be very sad of that.

 

[TheRealJuliane]

The only thing I don’t get is, how can the wife be the teacher and schoolgirl at the same time in a marriage?

!

That won’t happen. Two chaste people will meet each other at the same level. Both will be learning - about themselves and about each other. No one will be a teacher. They will stay at the same level during their entire marriage. No one will know more than the other. The only way a “teaching” role could happen is if one or both of them had already had sex and could “teach” the other about his/her preferences (which are also never at a static point, but change over time).

And about understanding one’s libido before marriage? I could say that I thought I had a normal sex drive, because I had something to base it on. I had a sexual past, an extensive sexual past, to base that opinion on. About the most a person could say, who had not had any sexual past, is that “I think about sex all the time, and it’s hard to keep from sinning,” or, “I hardly think about sex at all and I have no problems with temptation - it’s just not important to me.” Or any point between those two end members.

Now, after these 2 chaste individuals marry, either of them could discover that sex is either more or less important to them than they imagined it would be. Or, they could find out that they are well-matched in desire for each other, or very badly matched. But there is nothing to worry about, because sexual desire is not a static point - things change all the time. If you go through a carefree part of your life, you relax and sex is fun, and you make love frequently. Something stressful occurs, and you are preoccupied and stressed out - usually people cut back on sex at least a little. The two people are individuals and each one has his/her concerns and past history (not sexual) which affect this area as well.

Now, chances are that the husband is never going to be stressed enough to actually refuse sex! LOL, only slightly joking. Men are just geared to be able to carry on with their normal sexual desire even in stress; in fact, sex seems to relieve stress for them. And many women are the same. However, many women have a hard time thinking about sex when they are under stress or have unpleasant things going on. Our minds tend to hold onto our concerns and fears and that can crowd out our sexual aspect, as can having children climb all over us all day. Then you add in hormonal fluctuations and our sexual graph looks more like peaks and valleys while our husband’s graph is a steady line at the top of the graph!

A chaste couple can have all sorts of theoretical discussions about sex. But that’s all it is, theory. In practice, in life, EVERYTHING can and often does change.

 

[Mary_Gail_36]

For the OP…has your wife given you any reasons why she feels she’s not interested?

I’m concerned that you used the word “discontent” That is a strong feeling to have to deal with.

Is there anything going on with her that would indicate depression?

 

[The_Bucket]

However, many women have a hard time thinking about sex when they are under stress or have unpleasant things going on. Our minds tend to hold onto our concerns and fears and that can crowd out our sexual aspect, as can having children climb all over us all day. Then you add in hormonal fluctuations and our sexual graph looks more like peaks and valleys while our husband’s graph is a steady line at the top of the graph!

I don’t know that men stay at a steady line at the top. But yes, the line is usually steady. For some it’s at the top. For others it’s in the middle or low. Okay, for MANY it’s probably near the top. I don’t think my desire is stronger than my wife’s when she’s at her peak. It’s seriously crazy then. But I’d say I’m probably 85% of the way there and I’m just there all the time. That’s probably normal for dudes in their late 20s and who are in halfway decent shape. Having a couple of kids doesn’t phase me a bit and yes, sex is certainly a relief from stress.

But it’s not just the chemical release. Sexual intimacy is the chief way, at least for me, that I’m reassured that my wife loves me. Her giving her body to me reassures me that yes, she loves me more than anything in the world. I think that’s the case for her when she’s at her peak. Probably even more than I feel. After all, when she’s at these peaks, she’s usually fertile so there’s all kinds of emotional and mystical stuff happening there. “My husband loves me so much that he’s willing to give himself to me and potentially create a child.” Powerful stuff!

I know what you mean about the stress and women are probably like that in general. My wife is. Here’s the thing though: I find that when she’s stressed but does say “ok, you know I’m not really in the mood but let’s do this” that she ends up, well, certainly enjoying herself let’s say. So I think if she just lets me do the work so to speak, I can break through that stress. Extreme tiredness due to hormones or illness or just exhaustion is something else. That’s when I need to be understanding. But if it’s just that her mind is cluttered… if she gives me the opportunity to unclutter it for her, it tends to work!

A chaste couple can have all sorts of theoretical discussions about sex. But that’s all it is, theory. In practice, in life, EVERYTHING can and often does change.

Absolutely.

 

[mommamaree]

Bucket,
Yes, I agree heartily.
“Couple time” with the hubbie can give wifey a reprieve from daily stress, can help a grieving wife cope (I can attest to the fact that lovemaking helps to bear grief), can ease menstrual cramps, can initiate labor.
Women can sometimes have a hard time shutting off their brain (the whole multitasking thing becomes a handicap in this situation), but husbands can help with that by offering to “do all the work”. Both are then rewarded with closeness, relief from their troubles (at least for a little while), and oftentimes blessed sleep when stress/grief would have kept them awake all night.
I have only ever found that this “cure” doesn’t work for three things: acute illness, headache, or extreme exhaustion.

To the OP,
My husband and I talked a lot last night about your questions and this thread. His thoughts tended toward advising you to do some serious self-examination, and asking your wife is she would be willing to do the same. Then, honestly talking about expectations, needs, perspectives/attitudes, behaviors would be a good idea. Your wife may be picking up on messages you don’t realize you are sending. She may be sending messages that she doesn’t realize. There may be underlying subconscious thought processes that need to be exposed because they might be getting in the way. But both my husband and I can attest to the fact that being willing to be totally honest and completely vulnerable (both husband and wife) can take your marriage to good places you never thought possible. Mismatched libidos between husband and wife are actually the norm. I have never heard of anyone IRL who is evenly matched with their spouse. With that said, both the higher-libido spouse and the lower-libido spouse need to sacrifice and compromise to find a very happy middle ground. It is not fair for one spouse to either withhold or to demand. God bless you and from both my husband and myself, we hope and pray that you two are able to work out a new arrangement that brings both of you joy.

Oh, and one last thing: One piece of wisdom that has helped me tremendously over the years is “Never go to bed angry”. The way that has played out in my marriage is that, even though we may go to the bedroom angry, we “hash it out” and expose all the icky feelings we are struggling with, and then oftentimes it leads to lovemaking. Even when a husband and wife feel upset with each other, it can still be a good thing to work through it to a stopping place in order to make love. It sends the message that “Yes, I am upset or angry, but our relationship and my love for you is constant, despite the transient disagreements or stresses.” Obviously, in cases of betrayal or abuse, this would not be proper advice, but in principle, this is old grandmotherly wisdom I was given at the beginning of my marriage which has richly blessed us, even through some dark and difficult trials of our relationship.

 

[The_Bucket]

mommamaree,

Fine points and all I’d say is that at least in my experience, going over the top to do all the work doesn’t, well, work. That makes her think too much I guess. If I’m trying to be all preliminary and all touchy-feely and trying to warm her up… that’s just not something that works. Very strange. Maybe it gives her too much time to think. Getting to business, on the other hand, usually has that “decluttering” effect. Women are strange, but then again men are strange to women I guess.

I can’t say that we abide by that don’t go to bed angry thing. I want to do that but my wife, amazingly enough, does not like to “talk about feelings.” She thinks basically that I should not have feelings. I’m the man and I shouldn’t have feelings. Or if I do, I should be able to keep it to myself and deal with it without becoming passive aggressive. I should also just let her outbursts, as rare as they are, just bounce off of me. She’s very much into strong, silent types who have an inner peace and are able to just be total rocks. Except she married a guy who is extremely talkative and more sensitive than he really should be. Go figure.

I’m working on my stoicism and expressing how I feel when I’m not currently having those feelings. If I can do it dispassionately, it works a lot better. If I express my feelings when I’m actually feeling them, it makes her nervous and scared. Despite being a very independent woman, she’s easily disturbed when the man in her life is agitated in any way. So I’m working on surrendering my feelings to Christ when I’m in the moment and then bringing it up later in a very dispassionate manner. That seems to be very helpful because then we’re both calm and serene when we discuss whatever’s going on.

 

[ATeutonicKnight]

That won’t happen. Two chaste people will meet each other at the same level. Both will be learning - about themselves and about each other. No one will be a teacher. They will stay at the same level during their entire marriage. No one will know more than the other. The only way a “teaching” role could happen is if one or both of them had already had sex and could “teach” the other about his/her preferences (which are also never at a static point, but change over time).

And about understanding one’s libido before marriage? I could say that I thought I had a normal sex drive, because I had something to base it on. I had a sexual past, an extensive sexual past, to base that opinion on. About the most a person could say, who had not had any sexual past, is that “I think about sex all the time, and it’s hard to keep from sinning,” or, “I hardly think about sex at all and I have no problems with temptation - it’s just not important to me.” Or any point between those two end members.

Now, after these 2 chaste individuals marry, either of them could discover that sex is either more or less important to them than they imagined it would be. Or, they could find out that they are well-matched in desire for each other, or very badly matched. But there is nothing to worry about, because sexual desire is not a static point - things change all the time. If you go through a carefree part of your life, you relax and sex is fun, and you make love frequently. Something stressful occurs, and you are preoccupied and stressed out - usually people cut back on sex at least a little. The two people are individuals and each one has his/her concerns and past history (not sexual) which affect this area as well.

Now, chances are that the husband is never going to be stressed enough to actually refuse sex! LOL, only slightly joking. Men are just geared to be able to carry on with their normal sexual desire even in stress; in fact, sex seems to relieve stress for them. And many women are the same. However, many women have a hard time thinking about sex when they are under stress or have unpleasant things going on. Our minds tend to hold onto our concerns and fears and that can crowd out our sexual aspect, as can having children climb all over us all day. Then you add in hormonal fluctuations and our sexual graph looks more like peaks and valleys while our husband’s graph is a steady line at the top of the graph!

A chaste couple can have all sorts of theoretical discussions about sex. But that’s all it is, theory. In practice, in life, EVERYTHING can and often does change.

Hm… This is interesting. For me, when I was fourteen, sexual sin was sometimes a nine time a day thing. Now, refusing sexual temptation is no problem. I have so many tricks to avoid ever getting seriously tempted that I just never do anymore. I think it’s more a matter of self-mastery than how big your libido is.

 

[The_Bucket]

Hm… This is interesting. For me, when I was fourteen, sexual sin was sometimes a nine time a day thing. Now, refusing sexual temptation is no problem. I have so many tricks to avoid ever getting seriously tempted that I just never do anymore. I think it’s more a matter of self-mastery than how big your libido is.

There’s also a difference between being a 14-year-old boy with nothing but time on your hands and some porn lying around and being an adult. Of course, it also helps if what’s really a matter of immaturity as a teen doesn’t become an addiction as a young adult and into later life.

 

[hsmomforlife]

And whenever we can get away, I come up with good stuff. This past anniversary I surprised her by my sister coming over to watch the kids while I took her on a hike to a mountain she loves, had lunch up there, then took her to a winery, a nice dinner in a charming small town and a stay at a B&B. I know my stuff there!

LOL!! …to me, this would have seemed like a grandiose show just to ‘get some’ on a day when one is supposed to ‘get some’. But that’s just me
I can relate to TheRealJulaine’s post…
Sometimes in all the little day to day things that hurt or are turn-offs (like being intollerant of the kids, being mean-spirited, teasing, not wanting to do things, or worse doing them and then participating and being crabby about it etc.) it ends up just creating an apathy in such a way that no amount of flirting/texting/groping/flowers/candles/poems/-]mushy/-] romantic cards etc. feel real…they all seem like a ploy…y’know, like what guys are ‘supposed to do’ when they want something.

Spoken like a true ‘non-romantic’…huh??

 

[TheRealJuliane]

LOL!! …to me, this would have seemed like a grandiose show just to ‘get some’ on a day when one is supposed to ‘get some’. But that’s just me
I can relate to TheRealJulaine’s post…
**Sometimes in all the little day to day things that hurt or are turn-offs (like being intollerant of the kids, being mean-spirited, teasing, not wanting to do things, or worse doing them and then participating and being crabby about it etc.) it ends up just creating an apathy **in such a way that no amount of flirting/texting/groping/flowers/candles/poems/-]mushy/-] romantic cards etc. feel real…they all seem like a ploy…y’know, like what guys are ‘supposed to do’ when they want something.

Spoken like a true ‘non-romantic’…huh??

:sad_yes::clapping:

Exactly - unless done with NO expectations whatsoever, this can quickly become a quid pro quo, or like a recipe for “getting” sex. Take one reluctant woman, add some flowers, a few compliments, a nice dinner out and bake for 1 hour at 450, and voila! Here’s your reward!

That’s the part my husband does NOT get, or refuses to get. We basically don’t touch each other at all during a normal day, even on weekends when he’s around more. No rubs on the back, no hugs, no hand-holding. Nada. Nor does he compliment me or spend time with me. Suddenly, at bedtime, he will give me a look, and ask, “Coming to bed soon?” Or say nothing but glance at his watch visibly. “Should I wait up for you?” Oh the romance.



p.s. He did used to grope me at times but I have largely put a stop to that, as it really makes me feel hurt and used, that he can’t simply hug me or touch me without going for the boobs.

 

[The_Bucket]

Oh come on now. It’s an anniversary. Like you said h(name removed by moderator), you’re supposed to “get some” as you put it. That doesn’t mean I shouldn’t put in some serious effort anyway!

Incidentally, she was not feeling well by the end of the night so actually, there was no “some” when we went to bed in that nice B&B. Yeah I was mildly disappointed, but I mean, that’s life! I could choose to stew about the bad luck or I could genuinely understand the situation and know that she was probably disappointed too. So that’s what I decided to do. It’s not easy, but love isn’t easy.

The next morning she was feeling much better. And so was I.

TRJ, I have to say that I’m not your husband. There’s plenty of non-sexual touching. Probably too much. She gets annoyed by that. Even when we were dating and all our touching was never going to lead to sex, she was still annoyed from time to time. She’s generally not a cuddler unless she’s initiating that. Like I said, go figure.

Trust me, I understand what I need to do when it comes to the day to day stuff. Like I said, I’m a terrible handyman but when I actually manage to accomplish something, that makes her swoon way more than flowers!

My job is to be the man. That means being firm but gentle with the kids. That means being the rock for her emotionally. That means being creative when it comes to outings. That means doing the yucky stuff like the garbage. That means being “in charge” and making her feel safe. I’m working hard on that last point and have to remind myself that being in charge really means letting God be in charge of my life and then letting His guidance bleed into the rest of the family through me. That’s a tough one, especially for someone who drove himself almost literally insane due to anxiety as a child and then a re-surging addiction in adulthood after real life hit.

 

[BlueEyedLady]

I guess I’m seeing a disconnect here. The women are saying “If he wants me to want to have sex he needs to do XYZ or how can he expect me to be in to it?” And then they are saying “When he does XYZ he does it with the expectation of sex!”

All the while the poor man’s head is spinning and he’s thinking “But she said that if I did _______ she would be in the mood…”

Honestly, your husband does not owe you a certain level or type of affection to get sex. Acting like he does is what turns it in to a quid pro quo situation. You both owe each other the best that you can give. That means all of your love, affection, energy, everything. And at the same time you guys owe each other sex. That kind of goes along with marriage. But those two things cannot be related or you end up in a standoff situation where he’s thinking “Why would I be affectionate towards her? She doesn’t even want me anymore!” and she’s thinking “All he wants from me is sex, he doesn’t even touch me unless its for that!”

Everyone goes through hard times, and sometimes both the general affection or sex will take a beating. But allowing the other to fall when one suffers only makes the problem worse, not better.

And I do think that people, especially women, need to take a bit more responsibility for their own sexual satisfaction. It is so easy to point to the man and say that “he’s not getting me into it”. But really, most arousal starts in your own mind. If you can get yourself in to it your marriage will be stronger in the long run, even if that’s not the romantic ideal. And, the better you are at getting yourself in to it the easier it will be to teach him how to get you in to it as well.

 

[einna]

mommamaree,

Fine points and all I’d say is that at least in my experience, going over the top to do all the work doesn’t, well, work. That makes her think too much I guess. If I’m trying to be all preliminary and all touchy-feely and trying to warm her up… that’s just not something that works. Very strange. Maybe it gives her too much time to think. Getting to business, on the other hand, usually has that “decluttering” effect. Women are strange, but then again men are strange to women I guess.

I can’t say that we abide by that don’t go to bed angry thing. I want to do that but my wife, amazingly enough, does not like to “talk about feelings.” She thinks basically that I should not have feelings. I’m the man and I shouldn’t have feelings. Or if I do, I should be able to keep it to myself and deal with it without becoming passive aggressive. I should also just let her outbursts, as rare as they are, just bounce off of me. She’s very much into strong, silent types who have an inner peace and are able to just be total rocks. Except she married a guy who is extremely talkative and more sensitive than he really should be. Go figure.

I’m working on my stoicism and expressing how I feel when I’m not currently having those feelings. If I can do it dispassionately, it works a lot better. If I express my feelings when I’m actually feeling them, it makes her nervous and scared. Despite being a very independent woman, she’s easily disturbed when the man in her life is agitated in any way. So I’m working on surrendering my feelings to Christ when I’m in the moment and then bringing it up later in a very dispassionate manner. That seems to be very helpful because then we’re both calm and serene when we discuss whatever’s going on.

I find that very sad and very unfeeling of your wife. As a wife she should at least care enough about you to openly discuss the situation. She may not agree fully with how you fill but she should at least be open to compromise. You basically stuff your feelings is not good for you or your marriage. You might stay married but it won’t be a loving christian marriage. I truly believe that any therapist or priest who counsels would point that out to your wife and support your feelings.

 

[KostyaJMJ]

Perhaps you can mention to your wife that she is contractually obligated to render earlier agreed upon “services” in a timely manner upon receiving a reasonable request from you. You have it right there in black and white, and she signed on the dotted line. It can’t be all that complicated to explain to her. Plus, talk about contracts, rights, and obligations makes women melt.

 

[TheRealJuliane]

That is NOT what I am saying although I can see how you would think that it is. And perhaps I don’t even need to add to this discussion, because I don’t think my dear husband is in the normal set of men. I took him on for better or worse, and I did know (mostly) what I was getting into. I don’t think many men are in his category. I love him and respect him and I suppose this is getting into detraction, so I will stop now. He’s a good man in many ways, we just have some real problems in certain areas.

 

[mommamaree]

I guess I’m seeing a disconnect here. The women are saying “If he wants me to want to have sex he needs to do XYZ or how can he expect me to be in to it?” And then they are saying “When he does XYZ he does it with the expectation of sex!”

All the while the poor man’s head is spinning and he’s thinking “But she said that if I did _______ she would be in the mood…”

Honestly, your husband does not owe you a certain level or type of affection to get sex. Acting like he does is what turns it in to a quid pro quo situation. You both owe each other the best that you can give. That means all of your love, affection, energy, everything. And at the same time you guys owe each other sex. That kind of goes along with marriage. But those two things cannot be related or you end up in a standoff situation where he’s thinking “Why would I be affectionate towards her? She doesn’t even want me anymore!” and she’s thinking “All he wants from me is sex, he doesn’t even touch me unless its for that!”

Everyone goes through hard times, and sometimes both the general affection or sex will take a beating. But allowing the other to fall when one suffers only makes the problem worse, not better.

And I do think that people, especially women, need to take a bit more responsibility for their own sexual satisfaction. It is so easy to point to the man and say that “he’s not getting you in to it”. But really, most arousal starts in your own mind. If you can get yourself in to it your marriage will be stronger in the long run, even if that’s not the romantic ideal. And, the better you are at getting yourself in to it the easier it will be to teach him how to get you in to it as well.

Please explain to me why you are not Catholic?
Your sense of personal responsibility and your willingness to embrace duties/obligations that go along with promises you make you a person of rare virtue in today’s world.
I agree with everything you posted here. In fact, other than theological debates, I tend to appreciate your perspective here at CAF.
I hope you don’t mind if I hope and pray that you will become Catholic one day?
The Church needs good people who intend to follow through on their promises.