question about Islam and knowing God

  • Thread starter Thread starter Monica4316
  • Start date Start date
Status
Not open for further replies.
M

Monica4316

Guest
I know we can only know God through Jesus Christ… but I was wondering, do the Muslims believe that we can have a relationship with God? If we pray, would He answer back? does anyone know? how do they see God, in general?

thanks 🙂
 
Hi…
after several times discussing with people here, I can only learn that it seems that God of muslims is a indecisive God who would make a will of his own mind that could later be changed to something else and that men cannot have the understanding of his will but just accept it…🤷
 
Monica4316 said:
do the Muslims believe that we can have a relationship with God?
Click to expand...
Master-Servant relation.
If we pray, would He answer back?
Click to expand...
Yes, according to (Quran 2:186):
*YUSUFALI: When My servants ask thee concerning Me, I am indeed close (to them): I listen to the prayer of every suppliant when he calleth on Me: Let them also, with a will, Listen to My call, and believe in Me: That they may walk in the right way.
PICKTHAL: And when My servants question thee concerning Me, then surely I am nigh. I answer the prayer of the suppliant when he crieth unto Me. So let them hear My call and let them trust in Me, in order that they may be led aright.
SHAKIR: And when My servants ask you concerning Me, then surely I am very near; I answer the prayer of the suppliant when he calls on Me, so they should answer My call and believe in Me that they may walk in the right way. *
how do they see God, in general?
Click to expand...
According to (Quran 42:11) nothing like His likeness:
*USUFALI: (He is) the Creator of the heavens and the earth: He has made for you pairs from among yourselves, and pairs among cattle: by this means does He multiply you: there is nothing whatever like unto Him, and He is the One that hears and sees (all things).
PICKTHAL: The Creator of the heavens and the earth. He hath made for you pairs of yourselves, and of the cattle also pairs, whereby He multiplieth you. Naught is as His likeness; and He is the Hearer, the Seer.
SHAKIR: The Originator of the heavens and the earth; He made mates for you from among yourselves, and mates of the cattle too, multiplying you thereby; nothing like a likeness of Him; and He is the Hearing, the Seeing. *
 
Thank you 🙂

well how would you say the Muslim concept of God is similar/different to the Christian concept?

God bless
 
Monica4316 said:
I know we can only know God through Jesus Christ… but I was wondering, do the Muslims believe that we can have a relationship with God? If we pray, would He answer back? does anyone know? how do they see God, in general?

thanks 🙂
Click to expand...
It might be better ask Muslims first.
 
Monica4316 said:
well how would you say the Muslim concept of God is similar/different to the Christian concept?
Click to expand...
Different, because Muslims see God as a Master and not as a Father like the Christians, also Muslims relation with God tend to obeying His rules with little room for love, while in Christianity love is a major factor.
 
what is the Muslim’s main reason for obeying God? why do they believe He should be obeyed? (for us it would be because He deserves this, we were made for this, and out of love for Him)

it seems like the Christian approach is more personal somehow, like God is Someone who actually cares for us and loves us…

does Islam teach that God loves us, or that God is love?

(sorry I know so little:o )
 
Monica4316 said:
what is the Muslim’s main reason for obeying God? why do they believe He should be obeyed?
Click to expand...
Because he created us only to worship/serve Him according to (Quran 51.56):
*YUSUFALI: I have only created Jinns and men, that they may serve Me.
PICKTHAL: I created the jinn and humankind only that they might worship Me.
SHAKIR: And I have not created the jinn and the men except that they should serve Me. *
it seems like the Christian approach is more personal somehow, like God is Someone who actually cares for us and loves us…
Click to expand...
Yes, because God sent His Word & Spirit to love you and always be with you…
does Islam teach that God loves us, or that God is love?
Click to expand...
Only if you follow Muhammed according to (Quran 3:31):
YUSUFALI: Say: “If ye do love Allah, Follow me: Allah will love you and forgive you your sins: For Allah is Oft-Forgiving, Most Merciful.”
PICKTHAL: Say, (O Muhammad, to mankind): If ye love Allah, follow me; Allah will love you and forgive you your sins. Allah is Forgiving, Merciful.
SHAKIR: Say: If you love Allah, then follow me, Allah will love you and forgive you your faults, and Allah is Forgiving, MercifuL
 
My Arabic professor (a non-Muslim) used to say that Islam is like walking a knife’s edge, needing the utmost care and concentration to avoid fire on either side, if you were to fall…

I’m assuming he heard this description during his years of living in the Gulf, so I won’t question its authenticity. Overly generous comparisons could be made to Matthew 7:13-14, though it would seem to me that if Islam appears to be overly severe to the non-Muslim (especially in the West), it must have something to do with their way of knowing god, to whatever extent orthodox Muslims can. If our dear brother Sam is correct about the nature of God’s relationship to man in Islam (and I believe he is, as I have had the good fortune to know Muslims who essentially confirm this), then there is apparently very little that is necessary or possible to know about God, is there? You are His slave first and foremost, and not only because of your obviously much lower stature in relation to Him, but because “Allah guides whom he wills” or some such (and I think there is something about leading astray whom he wills, right?). It is an exercise of his power and his will that you be his slave, and he treat you however he wills. Do you need to know much beyond that in this kind of relationship?

Maybe I am selfish, and do not deserve to be called a child of God, but to me this is a very unsatisfying and “flat” sort of relationship. I am not one given to carnal ways of thinking about God, so is not a matter of desire (cf., for instance, some writings of Cathrine of Siena), but more a recognition of the utter shrinking of God in the process of defacing Him in the name of Islam’s bizarre fetishism of the abstract. I won’t pretend to understand why Islam has developed as it has, but I likewise won’t pretend that I can look at passages in the Qur’an or the writings of some Islamic philosopher or poet and see a great deal of depth in recognition of our relationship to God, as I do in the writings of Christians throughout the ages. There is a certain level that the Muslim cannot cross, you understand, due to their denial of even the possibility of the incarnation, of the divinity of Christ, of the crucifixion and glorious resurrection of the Saviour, let alone the reality of any of these things! So they remain fixated on this master/slave dynamic, because they are disallowed from any other kind of thinking, lest they be confused for mushriks or worse…

It bears repeating, of course, that I as a Christian am nothing greater than a humble servant of God in a way that most Muslims would insist can only come through Islam. Yet I have absolutely zero interest in ever becoming Muslim, because why should I ever need or want to? In Christianity, we need not relegate ourselves to a master/slave relationship exclusively, because we have also been called to do much more than just obey the law so as to not end up in hell. Christ has paid our ransom, trampling death by death, so we do not walk upon a knife’s edge, but along the path created for us by the Shepherd. It is still plenty dangerous out there should we wander, but it is a much more healthy, rich, and, dare I say it, joyful relationship than what Muslims have with their version of Allah.

Just an outsider’s perspective, and I’m sure I’ll be pointed to Sufi poets soon enough in response. (I’ve read some, friends…it approaches a fraction of beauty, but not agape, which is NOT an Islamic concept at all.)
 
Thank you to everyone who responded 🙂 this helps.

dzheremi, I would not say that St Catherine of Siena had a carnal way of thinking about God. I think that when the Saints speak as she did, this is driven by love and they’re just trying to find words to express how they feel.

I think what makes God more relateable to us as Christians is that He became Man, so through Christ we can have this relationship. Without Christ, it’s really hard to understand WHO God is… He seems like a force, but what is He LIKE? we don’t know. But Christ said that if we have seen Him, we have seen the Father. He is the perfect image of God. So we can see what God is like by looking at Jesus, and we see that He is personal, loving, as well as holy and righteous. Another aspect is that Jesus died for us… that shows the extent of His love.

God’s love is something that’s really important in my life. It’s the whole foundation of my faith and it’s why I haven’t given up by now. I see very little incentive in devoting every minute of my life to God if He is just a force out there. I’m not saying that this is what Muslims believe… I don’t really know what they believe, which is why I asked the question 🙂 so correct me if Im wrong.

I understand seeing God as our Master and us as slaves; Paul calls himself a slave of Christ (there was no word for “servant” back then) and I consider myself a slave too. For those who know about it, there’s the Catholic devotion of the “Holy Slavery of Love” formulated by St Louis de Montfort. It’s one of my favourite devotions. But it’s based on love, not on fear, and it’s purpose is not to distance us from God but to draw us closer to Him.

I also see Jesus as my Savior and my best Friend, I talk to Him as I would to a friend. I’m wondering if Muslims do this too. Do they say prayers in their own words, or just talk to God during the day, as they’re going around doing their duties? Or is prayer always really formal? I love Catholic traditional prayers, but I also talk to God “randomly” throughout the day, lol.

God bless
 
Scott Hahn and Tim Staples have some interesting things to say - its definitely a master/ slave relationship. Scott says: "There is an iron law that we become like the One we wor- ship.". If Moslem men worship Allah as a tyrant, its not so hard for them to become the
same, and ill treat their womenfolk, among other things.

Tim points out that the laws of Allah are not based so much on reasom, but on sheer
bloody-mindedness on Allahs part - "Do as I say...and dont you dare question!". Look
at the reaction of fury and hatred after Pope Benedict challenged Moslems to argue using
reason.

God has given us laws for our sake - sorta like “Do as I AM” rather than “Do as I SAY”.

We are children of God, not servants or slaves. What a comforting truth!
 
Monica4316 said:
I know we can only know God through Jesus Christ… but I was wondering, do the Muslims believe that we can have a relationship with God? If we pray, would He answer back? does anyone know? how do they see God, in general?

thanks 🙂
Click to expand...
i can understantan the complexity of this issue about islam from the sight of view of christians , and i hop that this answer will be clear

In the Qur’an, Allah refers to Himself as,"… the Most Merciful of the merciful…" (Surat al-Anbiya’: 83). It is also stated that, provided that one asks for repentance, anyone who does evil will find Allah forgiving. (Surat an-Nisa: 110)
For this reason, people must reflect upon this attribute of Allah and pray with hope. No matter how serious an error a person may have committed, and is in deep remorse over it, it is not a reason for him or her to despair of Allah’s forgiveness. Thus, the state of mind caused by erring and committing a sin must never become an impediment for a prayer of hope for forgiveness, for Allah states in the Qur’an that only disbelievers lose hope in Allah’s mercy:
“… Do not despair of solace from Allah. No one despairs of solace from Allah except for people who disbelieve.” (Surah Yusuf: 87)

In addition, no one is immune to punishment in Hell. Indeed Allah warns people against this, saying, “No one is safe from the punishment of his Lord.” (Surat al-Ma’arij: 28) For this reason, everyone must fear Allah as much as he or she can. Human beings, whose life is a test, are always vulnerable to Satan’s cunning deceptions and are thus very likely to go astray and turn away from the righteous path. Nobody is guaranteed a place in Paradise. This makes a person fear failing to attain Allah’s good pleasure, while hoping for Allah’s mercy.

That is why we find the concepts of fear and hope side by side in the Qur’an. If a person fails to fear the torment of Hell while praying, this is due to an essential failure of thinking and comprehension. Just as how eagerly a person prays to attain Paradise, so must he, for avoidance of Hell. In other words, through fear of Hell, he hopes to attain Paradise. Some of the verses that mention this are as follows:

Do not corrupt the earth after it has been put right. Call on Him fearfully and eagerly. Allah’s mercy is close to the good-doers. (Surat al-A’raf: 56)

Their sides eschew their beds as they call on their Lord in fear and ardent hope. And they give of what We have provided for them. (Surat as-Sajda: 16)
 
I appreciate the frankness of your response, elwill. It is also a near-perfect illustration of what I meant by a “flat” relationship: There are two sides, and you hope to navigate them. Things are black, or they are white. You go to paradise, or you go to hell. We Christians also have those thoughts and ideas, but there is more to the kinds of hope and fear (and other emotions!) that you find in Christianity. I guess you could say that we also have “black and white”, but as only two colors in a wide spectrum. 🙂
 
Thanks for your reply.🙂

I can see something similar in Catholicism, when we say that we have no assurance of salvation but we hope in God’s mercy.

However for us, the fear sort of fades away, and we just hope… what we (should) fear is offending God, not even for the punishment, but because He deserves all our love (perfect contrition). We believe we hurt Him with our sins.

Are Muslims encouraged to have both hope and fear during prayer? what if at times, there was only hope, would that be wrong?

God bless
 
Monica4316 said:
Thank you to everyone who responded 🙂 this helps.

dzheremi, I would not say that St Catherine of Siena had a carnal way of thinking about God. I think that when the Saints speak as she did, this is driven by love and they’re just trying to find words to express how they feel.
Click to expand...
Hi Monica,

Apologies in advance for cutting so much of your post. I want to respond to more of it, but for some reason the “quote” button (and every other button) on this board’s interface has not been working for me for a while, so it is a bit daunting to quote successive blocks of text.

Anyway, I feel like I should clarify what I wrote. I did not mean to write against Cathrine of Siena (though honestly some aspects of her writings do make me uncomfortable). I only meant to write something like “compared to, for instance, the writings of Cathrine of Siena” because they do feature what I would call, for lack of a better way to put it, carnal language. I wanted to make it clear to anyone who read the post that even though I may write about having a satisfying relationship with God, I do not mean that in the carnal fashion that I would not be surprised if some understood it to mean (keeping in mind that one common Muslim objection to the incarnation, based on the Qur’an, is that Jesus Christ cannot be the “Son” of God because God has no consort). I just can’t think of a better way to phrase it, probably because it is very late here and I am very tired.
 
Monica,

in case you’re not aware. Muslims are taught to slaughter non-muslims, especially christians and jews. If they worshipped the same God would they be taught to do such a thing???

Qur’an:9:5 “Fight and kill the disbelievers wherever you find them, take them captive, harass them, lie in wait and ambush them using every stratagem of war.”

Check this out to learn more:

muslimsopenyoureyes.blogspot.com

youtube.com/watch?v=8u14IMSH0l8&feature=related

.

.
 
elwill said:
i can understantan the complexity of this issue about islam from the sight of view of christians , and i hop that this answer will be clear

In the Qur’an, Allah refers to Himself as,"… the Most Merciful of the merciful…" (Surat al-Anbiya’: 83). It is also stated that, provided that one asks for repentance, anyone who does evil will find Allah forgiving. (Surat an-Nisa: 110)
For this reason, people must reflect upon this attribute of Allah and pray with hope. No matter how serious an error a person may have committed, and is in deep remorse over it, it is not a reason for him or her to despair of Allah’s forgiveness. Thus, the state of mind caused by erring and committing a sin must never become an impediment for a prayer of hope for forgiveness, for Allah states in the Qur’an that only disbelievers lose hope in Allah’s mercy:
“… Do not despair of solace from Allah. No one despairs of solace from Allah except for people who disbelieve.” (Surah Yusuf: 87)

In addition, no one is immune to punishment in Hell. Indeed Allah warns people against this, saying, “No one is safe from the punishment of his Lord.” (Surat al-Ma’arij: 28) For this reason, everyone must fear Allah as much as he or she can. Human beings, whose life is a test, are always vulnerable to Satan’s cunning deceptions and are thus very likely to go astray and turn away from the righteous path. Nobody is guaranteed a place in Paradise. This makes a person fear failing to attain Allah’s good pleasure, while hoping for Allah’s mercy.

That is why we find the concepts of fear and hope side by side in the Qur’an. If a person fails to fear the torment of Hell while praying, this is due to an essential failure of thinking and comprehension. Just as how eagerly a person prays to attain Paradise, so must he, for avoidance of Hell. In other words, through fear of Hell, he hopes to attain Paradise. Some of the verses that mention this are as follows:

Do not corrupt the earth after it has been put right. Call on Him fearfully and eagerly. Allah’s mercy is close to the good-doers. (Surat al-A’raf: 56)

Their sides eschew their beds as they call on their Lord in fear and ardent hope. And they give of what We have provided for them. (Surat as-Sajda: 16)
Click to expand...
In other words, your allah has a reputation of striking fear among his slaves. Where is the love, to be more précised, unconditional love from your allah?.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top