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LoganBryce
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This is irrelevant
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Psalms62
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Again, your post popped up in my reply. Also, the idea of the promise and the continuation to the promise came to Abraham. In Genesis 16 & 17, Hagar ran away from her mistress (Sarai) however, the angel of the Lord told her to return and to submit to her authority. The passage, " 10 Moreover, the angel of the Lord said to her, “I will greatly multiple descendants so that they will be too many to count.”
Genesis 17, descendants. 13 A servant who is born in your house or who is bought with your money shall surely be circumcised; thus shall My covenant be in your flesh for an everlasting covenant.
18 And Abraham said to God, “Oh that Ishmael might live before You!”19 But God said, “No, but Sarah your wife will bear you a son, and you shall call his name [n]Isaac; and I will establish My covenant with him for an everlasting covenant for his [o]descendants after him. 20 As for Ishmael, I have heard you; behold, I will bless him, and will make him fruitful and will multiply him exceedingly. He shall [p]become the father of twelve princes, and I will make him a great nation. 21 But My covenant I will establish with Isaac, whom Sarah will bear to you at this season next year.”
The promise is with isaac but God did make a covenant with Ishmael descendants.
I am keeping with the OP on this subject.
If that were the case then the apostle Paul would not have made this statement:
29 Is he the God of the Jews only? is he not also of the Gentiles? Yes, of the Gentiles also: 30Seeing it is one God, which shall justify the circumcision by faith, and uncircumcision through faith.
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Psalms62
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To your argument?
John 1 17 For the law was given through Moses; grace and truth came through Jesus Christ. 18 No one has ever seen God, but the one and only Son, who is himself God and[b]is in closest relationship with the Father, has made him known.
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LoganBryce
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Still irrelevant to anything I posted
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Psalms62
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Watch “Understanding the ‘Our Father’ - Dr. Scott Hahn - Deep in History” on YouTube
Excellent video and I think you’ll enjoy it! I believe you’ll hear the answer and yes it is relevant to your post.
Choose which video you what to view
Dr. Scott Hahn: Understanding Our Father: The Power of the Seven Petitions (Part I)
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Eric_Hyom
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The same God hears the prayers of Muslims, Jews and Christians. We cannot create more gods by praying to different gods.
Just a thought, did the same God make a mistake when he said the Jews are his chosen people? Christians are first chosen by Christ; and in Islam; Allah chooses whom he wills.
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meltzerboy2
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According to George Burns, in the film “Oh Gd,” one of the few mistakes Gd made was making the giraffe’s neck too long. Otherwise, you are right: Gd does not make mistakes.
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Psalms62
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No, humans do. If there was ever a great story to tell about the relationship between God and man, it would the Exodus. Although the New Testament was more on a individual basis, the Exodus dealt more as a nation. Jesus taught us more about the commandments and as a teacher.
In faith, some are just learning about God through that same trial and error! Obviously, we were not made perfect. I think Jesus even said it, “And Jesus said to him, Why callest thou me good? None is good but one, that is God.” Matthew 10:18
I would like to apologize to the poster. My post was not meant to be pointed directly at him but meant to be posted In general. I tried to convene that message early on. However, God of the Jews and Muslims as with Christians is one. Jesus had expressed the main tenant of the law:
36 “Teacher, which is the greatest commandment in the Law?”
37 Jesus replied: “‘Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind.’[a] 38 This is the first and greatest commandment. 39 And the second is like it: ‘Love your neighbor as yourself.’[b] 40 All the Law and the Prophets hang on these two commandments.”
2 things:
Jesus was tested in the desert under this law. And remain faithful.
Exodus taught me more about the patient’s of God and how many time He is willing to forgive. The book reads of the weaknesses and how we can rely on God for strength- like Manna- we are given our daily portion when we come and ask.
How can this God seem different from one to the other?
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Psalms62
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No, God did not make the mistake of choosing the patriarchs and their descendants. Then later (as a nation) to make a covenant with the descendants (as a nation) and by receiving the law (Torah). Just to point out some information: Jews - the term for a member of the tribe of Judah or the people of the [kingdom of Judah] According to the Hebrew Bible, the name of both the tribe and kingdom derive from Judah, the fourth son of Jacob.
According to the Hebrew Bible, the kingdom of Judah resulted from the break-up of the United Kingdom of Israel (1020 to about 930 BCE) after the northern tribes refused to accept Rehoboam, the son of Solomon, as their king. At first, only the tribe of Judah remained loyal to the house of David, but soon after the tribe of Benjamin joined Judah. The two kingdoms, Judah in the south and Israel in the north, coexisted uneasily after the split until the destruction of the Kingdom of Israel by Assyria in c. 722/721.
The major theme of the Hebrew Bible’s narrative is the loyalty of Judah, and especially its kings, to Yahweh, which it states is the God of Israel.
True or False? On this thought:
‘Judah was his sanctuary and Israel his dominion.’ (Psa. 114:2) Benjamin was not a ‘sanctuary’ tribe, but a ‘kingdom’ tribe. The tribe of Benjamin could not share ‘sanctuary’ status with Judah, the sharing of birthrights was strictly forbidden in the Law of Moses, it was not their birthright. The union between Judah and Benjamin was an ‘arranged marriage’ for David’s sake. Albeit, an ‘arranged marriage’ doomed to end in divorce as Jesus foretold.
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Psalms62
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Again, I don’t see a difference when all worship one God. Again, pointing out the same question as before, “How can this God seem different from one religion to the other?” (??)
The main difference, I thought, had to do with the Messiahship and/or what qualifies. I had absolute no idea that faiths (Christians - other denominational religions) thought this way of other religions outside the faith. Somehow - even within our own religion, Christian - faith, there are extreme differences between each other. Why are we going outside that realm, sort of speak? and, extending the distance even further?
The main difference, I thought, had to do with the Messiahship and/or what qualifies. I had absolute no idea that faiths (Christians - other denominational religions) thought this way of other religions outside the faith. Somehow - even within our own religion, Christian - faith, there are extreme differences between each other. Why are we going outside that realm, sort of speak? and, extending the distance even further?
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meltzerboy2
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First, the Gd of the Jews was NEVER portrayed as “separated or aloof.” On the contrary, He was always integrated in humans’ lives and affairs as well as intimately concerned about mankind, their moral values, their responsibilities, and their shortcomings. Judaism likens the relation between Gd and humanity to a partnership, both in the moral and legal sense.
Second, what you are saying here and in further posts is contrary to what the Catholic Church states, namely, that the Trinitarian Gd is NOT a new invention but rather has existed from first to everlasting. Thus, according to Catholic teaching, there is not and cannot be any change in the Personhood of Gd in that the three Persons have ALWAYS existed as Gd from everlasting to everlasting. The only possible change, and that only from human perspective, is the Incarnation of Gd in human form; but even here, there is and must be a hyperstatic union of Jesus’ human and divine nature rather than a separated part-whole relation. Otherwise, we are not talking about a monotheistic religion.
Second, what you are saying here and in further posts is contrary to what the Catholic Church states, namely, that the Trinitarian Gd is NOT a new invention but rather has existed from first to everlasting. Thus, according to Catholic teaching, there is not and cannot be any change in the Personhood of Gd in that the three Persons have ALWAYS existed as Gd from everlasting to everlasting. The only possible change, and that only from human perspective, is the Incarnation of Gd in human form; but even here, there is and must be a hyperstatic union of Jesus’ human and divine nature rather than a separated part-whole relation. Otherwise, we are not talking about a monotheistic religion.
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meltzerboy2
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Interesting point. And, of course, therein lies the immense and unfinished tale of Christianity. Perhaps the time was ripe to break definitively from Judaism, even if gradually. I think humans are a restless sort, never fully satisfied with one of anything, including religion. Thus even within one religion, there are numerous denominations, movements, streams derived from new ideas and new ways of thinking about life, the world, and humans’ place in it.
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Eric_Hyom
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Agreed, and the same God did not make a mistake when he chose people to follow Christ, but what about Islam?
Muslims have a deep faith in God, they pray five times a day, they fast, families and modesty are important to them. This must also come from the same God.
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Psalms62
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Jesus is about the best teachers of the law. I felt that he wanted to know how both the law givers and people (public) interpreted the understanding. The best example of this was on Luke 10:26, " 25 On one occasion an expert in the law stood up to test Jesus. “Teacher,” he asked, “what must I do to inherit eternal life? “What is written in the Law?” he replied. “How do you read it?”
Remember how we miss the mark- sin, is how we understand and digest the understanding. Without God’s wisdom, we are merely book smart. And so, to answer your question, Christianity maintains that God has one son; Judaism maintains that God has billions of sons and daughters. We are all God’s children, and the people of Israel are His firstborn (Exodus 4,22). The Talmud teaches that there are three participants in the formation of every human being: the mother and father, who provide the physical form, and God, who provides the soul, the personality, and the intelligence. It is said that one of God’s greatest gifts to humanity is the knowledge that we are His children and created in His image.
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Eric_Hyom
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As you say in Judaism, God has billions of children, could it be that God loves each and everyone of us as he loves himself? Can there be any greater purpose to have children; even for God?
When Jesus spent his time on earth, he would have lived by the greatest commandments; he could do nothing greater himself. But how did Jesus love all his neighbours as he loves himself? How did Jesus hold out his hands on the cross and love the man with the hammer and nails?
When Jesus spent his time on earth, he would have lived by the greatest commandments; he could do nothing greater himself. But how did Jesus love all his neighbours as he loves himself? How did Jesus hold out his hands on the cross and love the man with the hammer and nails?
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Psalms62
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Next question, how could Jesus still love Peter after He had denied him? Just prior, Jesus told Peter, “Simon, Simon, behold, Satan has demanded permission to sift you like wheat”…
Continue, 32 But I have prayed for you, Simon, that your faith may not fail. And when you have turned back, strengthen your brothers.”
It is important to do the work and to allow God to do the details. What’s important? But I tell you the truth, it is for your benefit that I am going away. Unless I go away, the Advocate will not come to you; but if I go, I will send Him to you.
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Psalms62
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There is no greater joy than to have children (pural) meaning whether it be Christian, Jewish or Muslim -Then the angel of the Lord told her, “Go back to your mistress and submit to her.” 10 The angel added, “I will increase your descendants so much that they will be too numerous to count.”
And, He took him outside and said, “Look up at the sky and count the stars—if indeed you can count them.” Then he said to him, “So shall your offspring[d] be.”
6 Abram believed the Lord, and he credited it to him as righteousness.
The billion children must have come from your two sides of the family - we were the unexpected ones! Yes, God can love us all. Although He puts up with us!
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Psalms62
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Yes, it does. It is important to know that family comes first and that God is involved in their growth. Priorities that will help nuture their faith and love for God. I’ve learned a very hard core lesson and one that will cost me.
I hope that across the board that parents take a very active roll in developing their children’s love for God. Teach them to have the courage to stand up for it! Outside of the religions there are a mixture of many misinformed people about God.
Whether we are Jewish, Muslim or Christian - we are in the public eye. Like any child or adult, they will learn by watching how we react toward each other. If it is a good house it will draw strength but if it is weak, then it will be crumbled. Remember this line from scrpture when Gamaliel spoke to the Sanhedrin:
35 Then he addressed the Sanhedrin: “Men of Israel, consider carefully what you intend to do to these men. 36 Some time ago Theudas appeared, claiming to be somebody, and about four hundred men rallied to him. He was killed, all his followers were dispersed, and it all came to nothing. 37 After him, Judas the Galilean appeared in the days of the census and led a band of people in revolt. He too was killed, and all his followers were scattered. 38 Therefore, in the present case I advise you: Leave these men alone! Let them go! For if their purpose or activity is of human origin, it will fail. 39 But if it is from God, you will not be able to stop these men; you will only find yourselves fighting against God.”
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Odilon
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God made no mistake when He chose the Jews as His people, He needed someone to recognize there was only one God. In Christianity, we believe in one God, the Father Almighty, but there exists three distinct persons of that Godhead. God the Father, the creator of us all, the Son through whom God Himself became Incarnated on this earth, and the Holy Spirit who was sent to help us. This “Allah”, he is described by Mohammed, and we must take his word on who he is, and he is certainly not the same “God” that I believe in. The true God is of love, this Allah - not so much.
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Mac120
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Put simply, there is the one God over all people and the Holy Spirit - as believed in Catholicism - guides all people in what ways are possible. So it is that St. Justin Martyr says every religion has “seeds of the Truth” within it. We may well believe that the Holy Spirit, in conjunction with the Angels, works to help people within the other religions approach the Truth more closely with time. Remember that Judaism came out of a long process of developing religion, borne out of the Semitic culture. If you look into ancient Mesopotamia, you will find literature using similar names for God found in the Old Testament, and Psalms too. Moreover, much of the Jewish implements of worship originated in older sources. The Urim and the Thummim, for instance, were probably first used as divination stones in the preceding religions. Nonetheless through the openess to the Holy Spirit in certain individuals within the culture, the Jewish religion was born, and through that Jesus Christ born. The question of whether it had to be Judaism rather than Hinduism or Taosim etc. is interesting. The argument could be made that Judaism was simply the religion that responded best to God, and allowed itself to be transformed most by Him. Anyhow. I think the Pope Emeritus has mentioned we need to be careful in inter-faith dialogue with the Jews, as they do come from an authentic tradition. Pope Francis has said similar things. Islam is a different phenomenon, but not without its similarities to Judaism and to Christianity. There is an historical argument that it began as a heresy, with some disciples of Arius - named Bahira and Waraqah. However, we can never know for sure. What Vatican II says on it, is that the Muslims strive after the same God we do, which is an important element to bear in mind. They venerate many of our Prophets also. Sometimes even pre 7th century Catholic Saints! I know that in Glasgow, St. Mungo/Kentigern who died during Muhammad’s lifetime was venerated with 10th century Vespers a few years back on his anniversary, and it was a great inter-faith event. Catholics, Protestants, perhaps a few Orthodox and notably some Muslims attended in the great Cathedral where he remains buried today. As to the other religions, like Hinduism, do they worship the same God? Again not an easy question if you read over what I’ve said already. I might stop here and refer you to the thought of Fr. Henri le Saux who founded Shantivanam - a kind of joint Hindu-Catholic Monastery - and also to Fr. Robert Kennedy SJ who is both a Catholic Priest and Buddhist Roshi. Their work is pioneering and very interesting indeed. Having an open mind is important.
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