Question about Mary and excesses

[mlchance]

What I’d like to ask Catholics is whether you believe such instruction/correction with regard to Mary might be necessary for children and/or new believers and if yes, have you ever seen it happen?

Of course it might be necessary, and I’ve not only see it happen, I’ve actively done such instruction myself.

– Mark L. Chance.

 

[Non_Serviam]

Thanks, NS.

Regarding the OP …

I think it could go either way. I.e. overenthusiastic responses to Mary might “stray over the line into the honour reserved to God alone”, or on the other hand a overemphasis of “We only worship God” (which is a true statement of course) might lead children or new believers (or old believers for that matter) to forget to honor Mary and the other saints.

You bring up something that quite possibly could happen Peter, although in my experiences with Catholics the only ones likely to forget to honour Mary are those who are ultra-liberal and think such things are foolishness and superstition (and thinking the same about a host of other things-pun intended).

Still, if one wants balance in children’s actions, it is good to explain to them where the boundaries are on both sides of proper behaviour while demonstrating the proper behaviour to them.

Thanks

in my experience as a catechist to school kids i had to correct some of their misunderstanding between worshiping and honoring the Blessed Mother. but what impress me is their quick grasp of how to properly honor her. she truly relates to these kids as any loving mother does to her children.
God bless.

I’m thinking in most cases they would want to do the right thing and would respond well to correction, just as they would in other areas. I’m sure many of the children find Mary to be a person to emulate and contemplate (without using those words)

Anyone else want to contribute other thoughts on the topic?

 

[Non_Serviam]

Of course it might be necessary, and I’ve not only see it happen, I’ve actively done such instruction myself.

– Mark L. Chance.

Thanks for sharing-if it doesn’t violate confidences or appropriateness, please feel free to comment further on your experiences.

 

[mlchance]

Thanks for sharing-if it doesn’t violate confidences or appropriateness, please feel free to comment further on your experiences.

Well, to give the short version, I’ve taught theology in private and Catholic schools. When discussing the Blessed Virgin, I tend to emphasize her universal motherhood of all Christians by virtue of her being the mother of Christ Jesus, our brother. Those things we would expect a mother to do for her children, Mary does for us. Thus, we can ask Mary for help, and we can thank her for what she has done for us.

But, when it comes to God, there is an infinite distance between God’s glory and power, and any of His creatures, including His own mother. Therefore, only God is to be worshipped, and He is to be loved more than anyone or anything.

My own children have been taught this as well.

– Mark L. Chance.

 

[Non_Serviam]

Well, to give the short version, I’ve taught theology in private and Catholic schools. When discussing the Blessed Virgin, I tend to emphasize her universal motherhood of all Christians by virtue of her being the mother of Christ Jesus, our brother. Those things we would expect a mother to do for her children, Mary does for us. Thus, we can ask Mary for help, and we can thank her for what she has done for us.

But, when it comes to God, there is an infinite distance between God’s glory and power, and any of His creatures, including His own mother. Therefore, only God is to be worshipped, and He is to be loved more than anyone or anything.

My own children have been taught this as well.

– Mark L. Chance.

Sounds like you’ve struck a good balance for yourself, your students and your family-thanks for sharing.

 

[Peter_J]

You bring up something that quite possibly could happen Peter, although in my experiences with Catholics the only ones likely to forget to honour Mary are those who are ultra-liberal and think such things are foolishness and superstition (and thinking the same about a host of other things-pun intended).

(emphasis added )

 

[Non_Serviam]

(emphasis added )

Thank you-I was in need of a smile about that moment.

 

[nbtb1348]

Well, certainly they should be catechised before they get to the point of the ‘Mary is God’ movement - which it cannot be stressed too much is TOTALLY heretical and against everything the Church teaches and stands for campus.udayton.edu/mary//newheresy.html :bigyikes:

But I think especially with children it would be difficult to explain the finer points, as has been said earlier. Suffice to say that anything short of actually calling Mary divine or offering her the principal and ultimate form of worship, the Sacrifice of the Mass, isn’t a real worry.

Interesting side note - I was watching footage the other day from the Coronation of Queen Elizabeth II. It had her husband Prince Philip taking his oath of loyalty to her, and in the wording he swore to be ‘your liegeman … in earthly worship’. Interesting how senses of a word can be lost in such a short time!

Perhaps use of the term ‘earthly worship’ where appropriate (ie in older texts which are more hyperbolic in their language) might make the Catholic position on Mary clearer?

Is there really a ‘Mary is God’ movement within the RCC?

 

[nbtb1348]

Thank you-I was in need of a smile about that moment.

Here’s a question I have: What would be the signs that someone was engaging in the worship of Mary rather than just honoring her in the way the Catholic church sanctions?

 

[Non_Serviam]

Here’s a question I have: What would be the signs that someone was engaging in the worship of Mary rather than just honoring her in the way the Catholic church sanctions?

You’ll note in the LilyM quote in your previous post that she suggests ways that one could do this. The book that I referenced in one of my earlier posts also discusses this topic. Others may post their thoughts on the topic as well.

I’d ask that you don’t try to cross-examine other posters on what they write-this thread is more about people sharing thoughts and opinions than debating them-there are already a number of Mary threads where that is possible.

Thanks

 

[AshleyBelle]

Is there really a ‘Mary is God’ movement within the RCC?

As far as I know, there is no “Mary is God” movement… However there was a group of elderly nuns who took things in that direction and were excommunicated for their heresy. This was fairly recently and in my research it’s the only group I’ve ever heard about that “took things that far.”

As for the OP I will try to share what I can:)  I'm glad my question "got you thinking!" hehe.. And I must say the tone of your posts are incredibly refreshing, thank you!

My oldest is four, and I am so inspired every day by his child like faith. He asked me recently:

“Mommy, can we pray for God to give you another baby, so I can have another baby sister?”

And then he bowed his head and said a little prayer! "In the name of the Father, and the Son, and the Holy Spirit; Dear God, please give mommy another baby in her tummy. Amen."   LOL!

Then a few days later he asked if we could pray for Mary to give us another baby. I had to explain that Mary loves us very much, just like she loves Jesus very much…and that she always prays for us in heaven. But that GOD is the one who can give us another baby, and Mary will pray with us.

With that, his eyes lit up and he said "yes mommy! And Mary can pray for us, and St. Therese can pray for us, and St. Bernadette can pray for us! And Jesus will help us!"

 It really just comes down to fostering a love for God and a love for all the saints in heaven within the family.   Praying and singing as a family....and most importantly of all, worshipping as a family.   My son gets SO excited in mass when it's "time to go see Jesus!"   He knows the difference between the love we have for Mary and the love and worship due to God/Jesus alone.  I've never had to explain the difference beyond a simple "Mary and all the saints will pray for GOD to help us."

I think it is the eucharist which puts it all into the most clear perspective. Even a little child can see how vastly different our true worship in the sacrifice of the mass is.

I hope that helps, God bless!

 

[Hesychios]

Is there really a ‘Mary is God’ movement within the RCC?

It seems to crop up on rare occasions. Usually due to someone having a vision or visions with messages.

There was a large and popular such movement based in southern Poland (at that time Austrian Galicia) about 100 years ago. It involved many thousands of people in it’s day. Pope Pius X suppressed it forcefully, however some communities remained obstinate and were excommunicated. There is still a greatly reduced and evolved small branch of the sect hanging on out there, mostly in Poland but not in communion with Rome.

 

[Peter_J]

Is there really a ‘Mary is God’ movement within the RCC?

Well, technically, no. Anyone who believes that “Mary is God” is not a Catholic, or any other kind of Christian for that matter.

 

[Hesychios]

Well, technically, no. Anyone who believes that “Mary is God” is not a Catholic, or any other kind of Christian for that matter.

I agree with you.

But 1holycatholic has this to say…

:tsktsk:

You can check out any time you like, but you can never leave.

 

[Sillara]

My own children seem to have a very good and clear grasp of the proper way to honor Our Lady because, being converts with an extended family of zealous Protestants, our children need to be able to explain things to Nana and the cousins. They know that we do not worship Mary and that to do so would sadden–and horrify–her. She is not God. This seemed entirely obvious to my children. They are still young, too, ranging in age from 10 years down to one month.

Having said that, the Hail Mary is their favorite prayer, even ahead of the Our Father. Why? Because I have explained to them that, if they are not sure what to pray for, ask Our Lady to pray; she will ask for what is best, as any mother would.

 

[Non_Serviam]

I agree with you.

But 1holycatholic has this to say…

A bit off topic here-not really the subject of the OP.

My own children seem to have a very good and clear grasp of the proper way to honor Our Lady because, being converts with an extended family of zealous Protestants, our children need to be able to explain things to Nana and the cousins. They know that we do not worship Mary and that to do so would sadden–and horrify–her. She is not God. This seemed entirely obvious to my children. They are still young, too, ranging in age from 10 years down to one month.

Having said that, the Hail Mary is their favorite prayer, even ahead of the Our Father. Why? Because I have explained to them that, if they are not sure what to pray for, ask Our Lady to pray; she will ask for what is best, as any mother would.

Thanks for sharing-it’s an experience very different from my own, but I think it is great that you are teaching your children to be able to give an explanation of what they do.

 

[Peter_J]

I agree with you.

But 1holycatholic has this to say…

On the other hand, heresy (whether formal or material), schism and apostasy do not in themselves constitute a formal act of defection if they are not externally concretized and manifested to the ecclesiastical authority in the required manner.

Alright, I admit that it’s rather curious that apostasy is included there. However, I don’t think 1holycatholic has stumbled onto some sort of deep dark secret about the Catholic Church, but just a curious technicality.

If someone ceases to be Christian (for example, if someone decides that Mary is God) then clearly he or she automatically ceases to be Catholic – even if there is no “formal act” of defection from the Catholic Church.