Question About Mary ??

[Randy_Carson]

Jesus was sinless. He got that from His Father’s side.

All descended from Adam are fallen, are they not?

Jesus was fully God and fully man, was he not?

He got his DNA from Mary, did he not?

So, Jesus should have inherited the stain of original sin from his Mother’s side, should he not?

But he did not.

 

[kujo313]

You sidestepped the argument because of the logical implications of it…

Jesus was not a sinner yet he was fully man. “All” does not include him.
Infants, children below the age of reason and mentally deficient adults are not sinners. “All” does not include them.

The Catholic Church is not above the Word, but she interprets it infallibly and teaches on matters of faith and morals without error.

You do not. :tiphat:

I have to disagree with you (suprised?). Who decided to not pluck out eyes and cut off hands but to insist that it’s not bread and wine? Why couldn’t John at the cross represent one person while Peter represent every believer?

Are you saying that the RCC is sinless?

 

[kujo313]

All descended from Adam are fallen, are they not?

Jesus was fully God and fully man, was he not?

He got his DNA from Mary, did he not?

So, Jesus should have inherited the stain of original sin from his Mother’s side, should he not?

But he did not.

You got it! Jesus did not! THAT’S the miracle of His birth!

 

[kujo313]

Mary was sinless too - she also got that from HER Father’s side (who also happens to be His Father of course )

That myth came from the RCC, not God. If Mary was “sinless”, then her parents had to have been, too.

 

[Randy_Carson]

“In memory”. He opened blind eyes, made the lame walk and raised the dead. Yet, bread remained bread and wine remained wine.
Why?

What a strange juxtaposition! Martin Luther did not believe this. He wrote:

“I cannot interpret the words, ‘This is my body’ differently than how they sound. It is up to others, therefore, to prove that, where the words, ‘This is my body’ are said, Christ’s body is not present. I do not want to hear explanations based on reason. In front of such clear words, there can be no question; I refuse logical reasoning and plain common sense. I totally refuse practical demonstrations and analytical argumentation. God is above all kinds of mathematical certainties and we must adore the Word of God in wonder.” (Martin Luther at the Colloquy of Marburg, 1529*)*

The rest of the sacrificial lamb in the OT went to the owners of the lamb for a feast. They celebrated the fact that God accepted their sacrifice and their sins were forgiven. They ate meat.
If we accept God’s “Sacrifice”, our sins are forgiven.
In breaking bread (wasn’t in slices back then), we remember Jesus being beaten and crucified for our sins. In the cup, we remember that His shed blood made us white as snow.

We agree.

Blood was shed for our sins, and we have to eat the Lamb. Since Jesus said, “My flesh (Greek sarx = flesh of a man) is real food and my blood is real drink.” We do exactly that.

As for being made white as snow, it’s even better than that: you’ve been given a new heart and a new Spirit has been placed within you. (cf. Ez 36:26)

You’re more than a “snow-covered dunghill”…your righteousness is infused not imparted.

Praise the Lord! :clapping:

 

[Randy_Carson]

That myth came from the RCC, not God. If Mary was “sinless”, then her parents had to have been, too.

Why?

Could God not preserve her from the inheriting original sin?

He created Adam and Eve without it and could do so again if he chose.

He’s GOD!

Will you limit what He is capable of?

 

[Randy_Carson]

I have to disagree with you (suprised?). Who decided to not pluck out eyes and cut off hands but to insist that it’s not bread and wine? Why couldn’t John at the cross represent one person while Peter represent every believer?

Are you saying that the RCC is sinless?

I don’t understand your first paragraph, so please restate.

As to the second, of course not. No one thinks that.

There is a difference between infallibility (which is something that God does - not something inherent in the Church or the Pope) and impeccability (which is the inability to sin).

The Church is infallible (in some very limited ways and not all matters, btw); she is not impeccable.

Hope this helps. :tiphat:

 

[Randy_Carson]

You got it! Jesus did not! THAT’S the miracle of His birth!

The miracle of Jesus’ birth is not that some Jewish kid in Palestine did not inherit original sin from his mom.

It’s that God became man.

It’s the incarnation that is the miracle.

The rest is just us trying to understand the details…

 

[paarsurrey]

then you will do a bit of reading of true Christians to discover that Jesus did die on the cross, was placed in a sealed tomb, and rose again on the first day of the week (Sunday).

Hi
A person cannot die at two places, the place where one dies later and is buried would be considered the real death. In Jesus case, my Christian friends I know that they believe Jesus died on Cross, yet Jesus was seen talking, sleeping, eating and drinking the normal symptoms of life and it is written in the NTBible. The last time when they saw him and his mother Mary was in Galilee, from there they lost trace of them, but he emerged in strange land alongwith his mother Mary and confidants, that has also to be believed if one is rational and logical. If one disappears from New York and is later seen in Tokyo, no body would say that he went to skies or heaven, all would believe that for some personal reason he has shifted to Japan and is living there, and of course if he dies and buried there, nobody would have any objection of his dieing there. It is no mystery, it is very simple to understand, may be it requires some research which my Christian friends won’t mind doing it. However , no compulsion in believing what I say, get it verified yourself. According to our researhc Jesus died in SiriNagar, India and is buried there. Mary perhaps died in the way and is buried in Murree (maybe named after her) a hilly resort near Islamabad, Pakistan.
Thanks
I am an Ahmadi – a peaceful faith in Islam bridging gaps between faiths/denominations/religions/agnostics
The West, as I understand, due to certain disinformation has seen only MullahIslam or MullahShariah; the true face of Muhammad’sIslam and PromisedMessiahImamMahdi’sIslam is yet hidden from their eyes, which is truly speaking only peaceful.

 

[Booklover]

It must be taken literally. God cannot lie. If God said “all have sinned” then all have sinned. God is not the author of confusion 1Cr 14:33

No, God is not the author of confusion. You believe that all you need is the Bible and nothing more and that the Holy Spirit will inspire you to interpret it correctly. If this is what God intended as you claim, why are there thousands of different protestant denominations all stating they’re Bible believing only, and no two interpret the scriptures the same way??

 

[Booklover]

swallow hard? And that’s your Christian testimony.

It was written in Greek inspired by the Holy Spirit. I have no reason to believe otherwise. God’s Word, as it is written in the Greek, makes complete sense to me. It’s perfect, pure, and without contradiction. You see, I’m not in a religion telling me what to believe. You have no choice but to go to outside sources because for some strange reason the Word of God is contradicting itself. You have no choice but to twist and bend and try to find loopholes in the Word to match up with your beliefs. You are unable to take the Word of God… as it is written and preserved.

No, you simply pick and choose what you want to believe and become your own little gods, interpret scripture any way you like and call yourselves Christ’s followers!!

Vickie

 

[Claude_Kenneson]

Let me say this again. Water baptism does not wash away sins… with emphasis on “water”. You MUST turn to Jesus in Faith and REPENT. You will be baptized with the Holy Ghost if you do. It’s the only baptism that saves… “not the putting away of filth of the flesh”. And, please take your arrogance down few notches.

I disagree with your assessment. I think both are necessary. John 3:5 says: 'Jesus answered, 'I tell you the truth, no one can enter the kingdom of God unless he is born OF WATER and the SPIRIT." Acts 22:16 “And now what are you waiting for? Get up, be baptized and wash your sins away, calling on his name.”
1 Pet. 3:20-22 “…in the days of Noah while the ark was being built. In it only a few people, eight in all, were saved through water, and this water symbolizes baptism that now SAVES YOU also–not the removal of dirt from the body but the pledge of a good conscience toward God. It saves you by the resurrection of Jesus Christ, who has gone into heaven and is at God’s right hand–with angels, authorities and powers in submission to him.”

 

[Pixie_Dust]

Have you ever wondered what happens to the leftover lamb when it’s sacrificed in the OT?

In the OT it was eaten by the priests. We, now being a royal priesthood of believers (1 Peter 2:9) eat the Holy Lamb of God’s flesh just like He told us to in John 6:52, 54, 55, 57-59; Matthew 26:26; Mark 14:22; and Luke 22:19.

 

[Lev23]

The miracle of Jesus’ birth is not that some Jewish kid in Palestine did not inherit original sin from his mom.

It’s that God became man.

It’s the incarnation that is the miracle.

The rest is just us trying to understand the details…

Just a sidenote for you bible experts, Mary gave birth to Jesus in Israel, he is the Messiah of Israel, he will come back to Jerusalem, which can be found in Israel, not “Palestine”.

Hope this helps. :tiphat:

 

[elvisman]

“Confusion” translates to “disorder”.

Yes, it sure does. Much like the confusion/disorder and non-uniformity of belief systems brought on by the tens of thousands of Protestant denominations. Remember, Jesus didn’t come to establish different Churches - only ONE.

---

John 17:20-22:
***"I pray not only for them, but also for those who will believe in me through their word, *****so that they may all be one, as you, Father, are in me and I in you, that they also may be in us, that the world may believe that you sent me. **
And I have given them the glory you gave me, so that they may be one, as we are one, I in them and you in me, that they may be brought to perfection as one, that the world may know that you sent me, and that you loved them even as you loved me."

---

That ONE Church IS the Catholic Church. The same Church that wrote (with divine inspiration) and compiled the very Bible that ALL Protestants base THEIR many different belief systems on.

---

Gee - not confusing at all . . .
**
**

 

[elvisman]

The following was copied from another post from someone else. I’m sure he wouldn’t mind me using it. In fact, he is Catholic. I don’t remember his user name though.

Being that so many people are hung up on thinking that the Catholic Church is God’s church, let’s define Church according to the time of Christ.
The word translated “church” in the English Bible is ekklesia. This word is the Greek words kaleo (to call), with the prefix ek (out). Thus, the word means “the called out ones.” However, the English word “church” does not come from ekklesia but from the word kuriakon, which means “dedicated to the Lord.” This word was commonly used to refer to a holy place or temple. By the time of Jerome’s translation of the New Testament from Greek to Latin, it was customary to use a derivative of kuriakon to translate ekklesia. Therefore, the word church is a poor translation of the word ekklesia since it implies a sacred building, or temple. A more accurate translation would be “assembly” because the term ekklesia was used to refer to a group of people who had been called out to a meeting. It was also used as a synonym for the word synagogue, which also means to “come together,” i.e. a gathering. “Body of Christ” Since believers have been united with Christ through spiritual baptism, they are sometimes corporately referred to as the body of Christ. (Rom. l2:4-5; 1 Cor. l2:11,13,l8,27; Col. l:l8; Eph. 5:30) The idea seems to be that the group of Christians in the world constitute the physical representation of Christ on earth. It is also a metaphor which demonstrates the interdependence of members in the church, while at the same time demonstrating their diversity from one another. (Rom. 12:4; 1 Cor. 12:14-17)

HUH??
**Using semantics **to avoid addressing my point that the Church grows and matures doesn’t help your position.

 

[Jaypeeto4]

Just a sidenote for you bible experts, Mary gave birth to Jesus in Israel, he is the Messiah of Israel, he will come back to Jerusalem, which can be found in Israel, not “Palestine”.

Hi Lev23, thanks for the comment.
After the time of Solomon, Jerusalem and it’s environs were called the Kingdom of Judah. The northern 10 tribes had broken away from Judah, and were called the kingdom of Israel.
Many if not all of the people of the northern kingdom of Israel were carried away into exile by Assyrian and other invaders so that in time, the Northern Kingdom had ceased to exist for all practical purposes. The southern Kingdom, Judah with Jerusalem as its capital, was invaded by Babylon’s armies in 608 BC or thereabouts, and (because of it’s unrepented apostasy) was absolutely destroyed by the Babylonians in 587/586 BC.

When the exiles were allowed to return, several wars were fought in the intervening years, especially the wars in the time of the Maccabees against the wicked tyrant Antiochus.

After that time, the Jewish inhabitants made a political alliance with the Roman Empire, which later came to rule over the land given to the Israelites, and they named it the province
of PALESTINE. At the time of Our Lord Jesus’s birth, the land was known as Palestine, and the Jewish inhabitants were under the Iron Fist of the Roman empire and it’s appointed governors.

After the destruction of Jerusalem in 70 A.D., which was predicted by Jesus decades in advance, some Jewish patriots held out in the fortress of Masada until, seeing no way to win, they committed mass suicide in 79 A.D. After 79 A.D., the
holy land was ruled, alternately, between Christians, Moslem Arabs, then the Turks, then the British.

After a fierce war of independence, European Jews gained control of a substantial area of the Holy Land in 1948, and in 1948,
declared the establishment of the State of Israel, a secular republic which is influenced politically to a degree by (mostly) Orthodox Jewish leaders.

But at the time of Jesus, the Jews were not in control and the land was called officially Palestine by it’s Roman overlords.

God bless,
Jaypeeto4
+JMJ+

 

[Lev23]

Just a sidenote for you bible experts, Mary gave birth to Jesus in Israel, he is the Messiah of Israel, he will come back to Jerusalem, which can be found in Israel, not “Palestine”.

Hi Lev23, thanks for the comment.
After the time of Solomon, Jerusalem and it’s environs were called the Kingdom of Judah. The northern 10 tribes had broken away from Judah, and were called the kingdom of Israel.
Many if not all of the people of the northern kingdom of Israel were carried away into exile by Assyrian and other invaders so that in time, the Northern Kingdom had ceased to exist for all practical purposes. The southern Kingdom, Judah with Jerusalem as its capital, was invaded by Babylon’s armies in 608 BC or thereabouts, and (because of it’s unrepented apostasy) was absolutely destroyed by the Babylonians in 587/586 BC.

When the exiles were allowed to return, several wars were fought in the intervening years, especially the wars in the time of the Maccabees against the wicked tyrant Antiochus.

After that time, the Jewish inhabitants made a political alliance with the Roman Empire, which later came to rule over the land given to the Israelites, and they named it the province
of PALESTINE. At the time of Our Lord Jesus’s birth, the land was known as Palestine, and the Jewish inhabitants were under the Iron Fist of the Roman empire and it’s appointed governors.

After the destruction of Jerusalem in 70 A.D., which was predicted by Jesus decades in advance, some Jewish patriots held out in the fortress of Masada until, seeing no way to win, they committed mass suicide in 79 A.D. After 79 A.D., the
holy land was ruled, alternately, between Christians, Moslem Arabs, then the Turks, then the British.

After a fierce war of independence, European Jews gained control of a substantial area of the Holy Land in 1948, and in 1948,
declared the establishment of the State of Israel, a secular republic which is influenced politically to a degree by (mostly) Orthodox Jewish leaders.

But at the time of Jesus, the Jews were not in control and the land was called officially Palestine by it’s Roman overlords.

God bless,
Jaypeeto4
+JMJ+

God didn’t refer to the land as “Palestine”.

Matthew 2:19-21
**After Herod died, and angel of the LORD appeared in a dream to Joseph in Egypt and said, “Get up, take the child and his mother and go to the land of ISRAEL, for those trying to take the child’s life are dead.”

So he got up, took the child and his mother and went to the land of ISRAEL.**

 

[Jaypeeto4]

God didn’t refer to the land as “Palestine”.

I agree with you on that point !!

God bless you,
Jaypeeto4
+JMJ+

 

[Randy_Carson]

Hi
A person cannot die at two places, the place where one dies later and is buried would be considered the real death. In Jesus case, my Christian friends I know that they believe Jesus died on Cross, yet Jesus was seen talking, sleeping, eating and drinking the normal symptoms of life and it is written in the NTBible.

This is correct. Jesus died once, was raised again, and ascended into heaven where he is seated at the right hand of the Father.

After his death upon the cross on Good Friday, he went in spirit to preach to the souls who had died previously. Then, on the first day of the week (Sunday), He was raised to life again. In other words, his dead body was enlivened again. Evidence that he was not pure spirit or a ghost was given in the ways that you wrote above.

Jesus appeared to many people (as many as 500 at one time) before his ascension into heaven.

Since your own tradition holds the ascension of Mohammed (and his horse?), I think this part of the history should be no problem for you.

Hope this helps. :tiphat: