Question About Mary ??

[Randy_Carson]

Just a sidenote for you bible experts, Mary gave birth to Jesus in Israel, he is the Messiah of Israel, he will come back to Jerusalem, which can be found in Israel, not “Palestine”.

Hope this helps. :tiphat:

No question.

My original statement was specifically intended to illustrate the absurdity of any attempt to diminish the mystery of the Incarnation.

If you read my post carefully in the context of the thread, you’ll note the hint of sarcasm in my words.

I am very aware of where Jesus was born and died as well as much of the history of the nation of Israel.

Thanks for double-checking, though. :tiphat:

 

[Mannyfit75]

Yea… but the Holy Spirit makes no mistakes. The message is clear. The Holy Spirit made a distinction and I believe Him. I don’t believe your church. If you’d like to appear before the Judgment Seat of Christ and explain why you did not believe the Holy Spirit when He used Petros and Petra… that’s your business. I can at the very least hold God to His Word when I appear before Him.

The Holy Spirit doesn’t make mistakes. You are puting yourself in a false dichtomy by separating the Church and Jesus Christ.

The Church is the Pillar and Bulwark of Truth. 1 Tim 3:15

Jesus promised us to Peter that he will build his Church and preserved it hell (The gates of hell shall not prevail against it). He also promised that the Holy Spirit lead us to all truth, and base on this, the Church is the guardian of Truth.

You cannot separate Jesus from the Church. He is the Head of the Church.

You speak on contradictions? How come Protestants have thousands of churches teaching different doctrines? One support abortion, plan parenthood, ordain gay priests, ordain women (when Jesus only granted a male priesthood), permit divorce, and all other immorality, and why on why did Protestants end their opposition against contraception. Back in the 1930, the Protestant Churches then oppose it.

There is a complete inconsistent teachings on moral issues within the Protestant sects. In the Catholic Church, she has continue to go against many of the immorality of today’s society. You think the Holy Spirit ok contraception because it opens doors for fornications and free love? No. The Holy Spirit is not the spirit of contradictions, which many of your Protestant sects have different beliefs and doctrines.

You may disagree with your pastors on certain issue. You just leave and make your own church.

The Protestant doctrine of Sola Scriptura has corrupted Christianity and made the individual person the sole interpreter of the Bible. There is no final authority who judges what is right or wrong.

A good example is the Anglican Church. As you know this Protestant sect, is in a close to schism over the ordaination of gay priest and bishops. The lack of authority to end dispute is common in Protestantism.

The Bible also clearly states that if there is a disagreement amongst you, you take it to the Church. It didn’t say take it to Scripture.

Matthew Chapter 18 verse 15-18

15 But if thy brother shall offend against thee, go, and rebuke him between thee and him alone. If he shall hear thee, thou shalt gain thy brother.

16 And if he will not hear thee, take with thee one or two more: that in the mouth of two or three witnesses every word may stand. 17 And if he will not hear them: tell the church. And if he will** not hear the church**, let him be to thee as the heathen and publican. 18 Amen I say to you, whatsoever you shall bind upon earth, shall be bound also in heaven; and whatsoever you shall loose upon earth, shall be loosed also in heaven.

Jesus address this to the Apostles. This was put into Practice in Acts Chapter 15 verse 1-41, ande the Apostles did not refer to Scripture of the OT, instead the relied on the Peter’s testimony, and Paul and Barnabas.

You cannot separate the Church and Jesus Christ. They are One.

 

[Lev23]

The Protestant doctrine of Sola Scriptura has corrupted Christianity and made the individual person the sole interpreter of the Bible. There is no final authority who judges what is right or wrong.

The lack of authority to end dispute is common in Protestantism.

The Bible also clearly states that if there is a disagreement amongst you, you take it to the Church.

It didn’t say take it to Scripture.

Matthew Chapter 18 verse 15-18

Jesus address this to the Apostles. This was put into Practice in Acts Chapter 15 verse 1-41, ande the Apostles did not refer to Scripture of the OT, instead the relied on the Peter’s testimony, and Paul and Barnabas.

You cannot separate the Church and Jesus Christ. They are One.

They did refer to OT scripture.

In Acts 15, after Peter spoke, James spoke up and in verses 15-18 says- The words of the prophets are in agreement with this, as it is written:…; and quotes from Amos 9:10-11.

Then in verses 19-21 James gives his judgement not to make it difficult for the gentiles who are turning to God. Then he suggests that in writing, that it would be good if they abstain from food polluted by idols, from sexual immorality, from meat of strangled animals, and from blood.

Why did he mention these?

Because verse 21-
For Moses has been preached in every city from the earliest times and is (((READ))) in the synagogues on every sabbath.

Those things listed to abstain from in verse 20 could be found in OT scripture.

 

[Mannyfit75]

They did refer to OT scripture.

In Acts 15, after Peter spoke, James spoke up and in verses 15-18 says- The words of the prophets are in agreement with this, as it is written:…; and quotes from Amos 9:10-11.

Then in verses 19-21 James gives his judgement not to make it difficult for the gentiles who are turning to God. Then he suggests that in writing, that it would be good if they abstain from food polluted by idols, from sexual immorality, from meat of strangled animals, and from blood.

Why did he mention these?

Because verse 21-
For Moses has been preached in every city from the earliest times and is (((READ))) in the synagogues on every sabbath.

Those things listed to abstain from in verse 20 could be found in OT scripture.

I look at those verses but the Council of Jerusalem concluded that Gentiles can be converted without the need of circumcision. The Apostles did not use Scripture of the OT to support for not having them convert to Christianity. They relied on the Holy Spirit.

Amos 9:10-11 actually says,

10 All the sinners of my people shall fall by the sword: who say: The evils shall not approach, and shall not come upon us. 11 In that day I will raise up the tabernacle of David, that is fallen: and I will close up the breaches of the walls thereof, and repair what was fallen: and I will rebuild it as in the days of old.

 

[Lev23]

I look at those verses but the Council of Jerusalem concluded that Gentiles can be converted without the need of circumcision. The Apostles did not use Scripture of the OT to support for not having them convert to Christianity. They relied on the Holy Spirit.

Amos 9:10-11 actually says,

Whoops, I meant to say Amos 9:11-12.

They did rely on the word of God. In addition, in verse 10, Peter says- “Now then, why do you try to test God by putting on the necks of the disciples a yoke that neither we nor our fathers have been able to bear?”

The Jews lived it, told about it, and could read it from scripture how hard this yoke was.

 

[JimG]

According to our researhc Jesus died in SiriNagar, India and is buried there. Mary perhaps died in the way and is buried in Murree (maybe named after her) a hilly resort near Islamabad, Pakistan.

Sounds like somebody is missing out on the opportunity to capitalize on a previously unknown religious shrine and tourist attraction.

 

[jmcrae]

Sounds like somebody is missing out on the opportunity to capitalize on a previously unknown religious shrine and tourist attraction.

Big time.

I am also totally baffled at the idea that the Apostles had to invent the story of the Resurrection, in order to make Jesus seem “important.”

Funny - Mohammed didn’t need anything like that. Neither did Guru Nanak, or Buddha, or any of the other great founders of great religions - all of them were able to die natural deaths, and still managed to gain sincere and devoted followers.

 

[kujo313]

According to our researhc Jesus died in SiriNagar, India and is buried there.
COLOR]

According to hundreds of witnesses, Jesus died on a cross, was buried in a tomb and rose on the third day. According to hundreds of witnesses, Jesus stayed for 40 days and ascended to Heaven.
The disciples went from hiding in fear of their lives to boldly proclaiming that Jesus rose from the dead to those who origionally wanted to kill them in the first place.
IF the Gospel is a lie, one or more of them wouldn’t have went to their graves for a lie.

This same Jesus, one of your prophets, not only claimed to be the Messiah but proved it withsigns and wonders: fulfilling ALL of the prophecies of the Messiah as written in the Law of Moses and the Prophets.

This same Jesus loves you and wants you to follow Him.

 

[kujo313]

Yes, it sure does. Much like the confusion/disorder and non-uniformity of belief systems brought on by the tens of thousands of Protestant denominations. Remember, Jesus didn’t come to establish different Churches - only ONE.

---

John 17:20-22:
***“I pray not only for them, but also for those who will believe in me through their word, ***so that they may all be one, as you, Father, are in me and I in you, that they also may be in us, that the world may believe that you sent me.
And I have given them the glory you gave me, so that they may be one, as we are one, I in them and you in me, that they may be brought to perfection as one, that the world may know that you sent me, and that you loved them even as you loved me.”

---

That ONE Church IS the Catholic Church. The same Church that wrote (with divine inspiration) and compiled the very Bible that ALL Protestants base THEIR many different belief systems on.

---

Gee - not confusing at all . . .

---

IF, and that’s a big IF, the Catholic religion is THE “Church”, then it’s going the wrong way.
Statues, prayer beads, pilgrimages to where “Mary” supposedly appeared, scapulars, etc.
In the OT, we read that on may occasions, Israel did evil in the eyes of God. Just as it was then, the RCC is doing evil, too. You quote Paul saying to keep your “traditions” but take out “as you have been taught by us.” Paul did NOT say to make up new “traditions” after that.
The “tradition” of Mary was not included in ANY Holy Bible for good reason: without her, there’s STILL hope in Jesus Christ. Without Christ, there is no hope.

The RCC is committing idolotry and spiritual adultery, perverting the Gospel of Jesus Christ by man-made “traditions”.

THAT is not what I want to be a part of.

 

[LilyM]

IF, and that’s a big IF, the Catholic religion is THE “Church”, then it’s going the wrong way.
Statues, prayer beads, pilgrimages to where “Mary” supposedly appeared, scapulars, etc.
In the OT, we read that on may occasions, Israel did evil in the eyes of God. Just as it was then, the RCC is doing evil, too. You quote Paul saying to keep your “traditions” but take out “as you have been taught by us.” Paul did NOT say to make up new “traditions” after that.
The “tradition” of Mary was not included in ANY Holy Bible for good reason: without her, there’s STILL hope in Jesus Christ. Without Christ, there is no hope.

The RCC is committing idolotry and spiritual adultery, perverting the Gospel of Jesus Christ by man-made “traditions”.

THAT is not what I want to be a part of.

God himself called Israel faithless, stubborn, stiff-necked etc etc, and predicted that they would stray from His paths. None of this relates or applies to the Church founded by Christ upon Peter.

How on earth can you square Jesus’ promise that the Holy Spirit will protect and guide his church in all truth with said church officially teaching idolatry and spiritual adultery as you put it? It doesn’t compute.

 

[Mannyfit75]

God himself called Israel faithless, stubborn, stiff-necked etc etc, and predicted that they would stray from His paths. None of this relates or applies to the Church founded by Christ upon Peter.

How on earth can you square Jesus’ promise that the Holy Spirit will protect and guide his church in all truth with said church officially teaching idolatry and spiritual adultery as you put it? It doesn’t compute.

Well, said.

 

[Mannyfit75]

IF, and that’s a big IF, the Catholic religion is THE “Church”, then it’s going the wrong way.
Statues, prayer beads, pilgrimages to where “Mary” supposedly appeared, scapulars, etc.
In the OT, we read that on may occasions, Israel did evil in the eyes of God. Just as it was then, the RCC is doing evil, too. You quote Paul saying to keep your “traditions” but take out “as you have been taught by us.” Paul did NOT say to make up new “traditions” after that.
The “tradition” of Mary was not included in ANY Holy Bible for good reason: without her, there’s STILL hope in Jesus Christ. Without Christ, there is no hope.

The RCC is committing idolotry and spiritual adultery, perverting the Gospel of Jesus Christ by man-made “traditions”.

These Tradition have been believed since time of the Apostolic Fathers. Church history proves it that Jesus established One Church. There isn’t any idol worship in the Catholic Church. To a Catholic, idol worship involves placing someone over God. The icons and statues are use as a meditative purposes, they are not worship at. The lives of many saints live a Christian life.

It is use as means to focus at the Master, who is Jesus Christ. Second, the Source and Summit of the Church is the Jesus. In the Blessed Eucharist, we believe that Jesus become the Body and Blood of Jesus Christ. We take very serious care to this. You need to get your Protestant bias that the CC pervert the word of God.

Many of us practicing Catholics have a deep love for Jesus, and if possible we go to Daily Mass to received him everyday.

THAT is not what I want to be a part of.

 

[jmcrae]

IF, and that’s a big IF, the Catholic religion is THE “Church”, then it’s going the wrong way.

According to what standard?

Statues, prayer beads, pilgrimages to where “Mary” supposedly appeared, scapulars, etc.

All of these things are aids to the faith, just like your Holly Hobby nativity sets, Jesus Loves You birthday cards, Veggie Tales videos, etc. that you have in Protestantism.

In the OT, we read that on may occasions, Israel did evil in the eyes of God. Just as it was then, the RCC is doing evil, too.

In your opinion.

You quote Paul saying to keep your “traditions” but take out “as you have been taught by us.” Paul did NOT say to make up new “traditions” after that.

Nor has anyone in the Catholic Church ever made up any new traditions. Our beliefs about Mary, about the Pope, and about the Church all come direct from the Apostles.

The “tradition” of Mary was not included in ANY Holy Bible for good reason: without her, there’s STILL hope in Jesus Christ.

Without her, there is no Jesus Christ. If she had said “No,” do you think that the Angel Gabriel would have gone shopping around Galilee for another sinless virgin? In the same way that God did not create a new replacement Eve after she committed the first sin, so also, if Mary had said “No,” then that would have been it. No replacement would have been found for Mary, either. God respected her choice, made in free will, on behalf of all mankind, just as He respected Eve’s choice on behalf of all humanity, and let the consequences fall as they may.

Without Christ, there is no hope.

That’s why Mary’s “Yes” is so very, very important to us.

 

[PaulDupre]

I would like to hear how one can say Mary had perpetual virginity based on scripture ……

Luke 1:34 Then said Mary unto the angel, How shall this be, seeing I know not a man?

Older translations, like the Douey Rheims, say “since I know not man”. The absence of the article “a” makes more sense with Mary as a consecrated virgin.

God bless,
Paul

 

[kujo313]

God himself called Israel faithless, stubborn, stiff-necked etc etc, and predicted that they would stray from His paths. None of this relates or applies to the Church founded by Christ upon Peter.

How on earth can you square Jesus’ promise that the Holy Spirit will protect and guide his church in all truth with said church officially teaching idolatry and spiritual adultery as you put it? It doesn’t compute.

Jesus says that the Holy Spirit will guide us in all truth. Jesus IS Truth. If a spirit, angel, disciple, priest, or appriation of Mary says otherwise, it’s not the Holy Spirit but demon.
I’ve posted many times of links from rosary.com and other websites that quote Mary as saying that SHE is the only hope and other blaphemous quotes. If the RCC accepts that as “truth”, then it’s accepting a false gospel.

Repent.

 

[LJN21]

Jesus says that the Holy Spirit will guide us in all truth. Jesus IS Truth. If a spirit, angel, disciple, priest, or appriation of Mary says otherwise, it’s not the Holy Spirit but demon.
I’ve posted many times of links from rosary.com and other websites that quote Mary as saying that SHE is the only hope and other blaphemous quotes. If the RCC accepts that as “truth”, then it’s accepting a false gospel.

Repent.

The “Catholic Church” doesn’t

The Church says its private ravilation and not nessary for salvation.

 

[Randy_Carson]

Jesus says that the Holy Spirit will guide us in all truth.

Where does the Bible teach this?

Jesus IS Truth. If a spirit, angel, disciple, priest, or appriation of Mary says otherwise, it’s not the Holy Spirit but demon.
I’ve posted many times of links from rosary.com and other websites that quote Mary as saying that SHE is the only hope and other blaphemous quotes. If the RCC accepts that as “truth”, then it’s accepting a false gospel.

Repent.

Is rosary.com an official website of the Catholic Church?

 

[Mommyof02green]

Is rosary.com an official website of the Catholic Church?

I’m going on a limb and say NO! I’ve looked at rosary.com and it just a compiling of other websites…

I found the link for “Catholic Mass Times” only to find that beliefnet.com was the sponsor link

Now I like to take the quizzes on beliefnet… they are just for FUN ! But I wouldn’t trust beliefnet for questions regarding my faith.

 

[LilyM]

Jesus says that the Holy Spirit will guide us in all truth. Jesus IS Truth. If a spirit, angel, disciple, priest, or appriation of Mary says otherwise, it’s not the Holy Spirit but demon.
I’ve posted many times of links from rosary.com and other websites that quote Mary as saying that SHE is the only hope and other blaphemous quotes. If the RCC accepts that as “truth”, then it’s accepting a false gospel.

Repent.

If the Holy Spirit guides US each as individual Christians in all truth then how come so many (and whichever way you slice it it is MANY), who mean so well, have got it so terribly wrong???

How come the Apostles themselves needed to hold a council in Acts to clarify and come to a consensus about what they were to teach?

Who on earth does your Pastor have a council with to cross-check that what he teaches you is correct?

Or could it be that it’s actually the official institution that Christ is protecting? The same one that does, to this day, hold ecumenical councils to take stock of their faith and teachings as the Apostles did? The Catholic Church?

In any case you’re lost, since your church (denomination) wasn’t around at the time Christ made that promise, and he didn’t promise that it would be a new breakaway church (denomination) that would conquer hell, rather HIS original one, founded on Peter the rock.

 

[kujo313]

Where does the Bible teach this?

Is rosary.com an official website of the Catholic Church?

I know that you haven’t learned this in the Catholic Church. I never heard it there.

John 16:12-14

“I still have many things to say to you, but you cannot bear them now. However, when He, the Spirit of truth, has come, He will guide you into all truth; for He will not speak on His own authority, but whatever He hears He will speak; and He will tell you things to come. He will glorify Me, for He will take of what is Mine and declare it to you."

You cannot deny that rosaries ARE a part of the catholic religion’s “tradition” from the 12th or 14th century, over a thousand years after Jesus. Yet, it wasn’t a part of the “tradition” that Paul mentioned in his letters.

Did you not know this?