Question About Mary ??

[DixiesFinest]

That’s good, since you are one of those that needs to be refuted!

Score 1 for guanophore

 

[truthnlight]

When discussing the Immaculate Conception, an implicit reference may be found in the angel’s greeting to Mary. The angel Gabriel said, “Hail, full of grace, the Lord is with you” (Luke 1:28). The phrase “full of grace” is a translation of the Greek word kecharitomene. It therefore expresses a characteristic quality of Mary.

 

[Priest34]

Not in Biblical language. In the old Testament alone there are numerous passages such as ‘Michal (David’s wife) had no children until the day she died’ (she’d hardly have children AFTER she died) and ‘sit at my right hand until I put your enemies under your feet’ (David is hardly going to be asked to move AFTER this happens, is he?).

Clearly when the Bible says ‘until’ it can mean ‘until and after’.

As for Mary - look closer at her words to Gabriel. A woman, newly betrothed, expecting in the normal course of events to have sex and children in the very near future, is told she’ll have a child - and she says ‘HOW can this be, I am a virgin’??? If she’s planning a normal marriage she KNOWS how it can be - her husband will sleep with her and father the child! The answer only makes sense if she’s planning on remaining a virgin.

Please forgive my bluntness but I don’t see the logic in your response. It seems that Mary was saying in response to the angel’s statement that it is impossible for me to be pregnant because I have not participated in sexual behavior. There is nothing at all in her response that suggests that she would remaina virgin.
Thank you

 

[DixiesFinest]

Please forgive my bluntness but I don’t see the logic in your response. It seems that Mary was saying in response to the angel’s statement that it is impossible for me to be pregnant because I have not participated in sexual behavior. There is nothing at all in her response that suggests that she would remain a virgin.
Thank you

When told “you will (not already have) have a son,” if Our Lady was not sworn to virginity, she would have assumed that she was going to have her son by Joseph (she was already betrothed at this point). Instead, she questions the angel, seeing as how it is impossible for her to have a child.

 

[LilyM]

Please forgive my bluntness but I don’t see the logic in your response. It seems that Mary was saying in response to the angel’s statement that it is impossible for me to be pregnant because I have not participated in sexual behavior. There is nothing at all in her response that suggests that she would remaina virgin.
Thank you

Point being if she was engaged to be married - AND intending on having a normal sexual marriage - she would be expecting to be engaging in sexual behaviour pretty darn soon. Her virginity wouldn’t be an issue, she’d be planning on losing it soon.

Note the angel didn’t say WHEN she was going to have the child, nor did he say its conception wouldn’t be a natural one. Not until Mary herself raised the issue of her virginity.

Look, I’m a woman, so trust me. If I was a few months shy of being married, anticipating having sex with my husband, and was told I was going to have a child, whether son of God or no, I’d be thinking ‘of course! Married women have babies, it’s the normal result of marriage!’ I may say ‘how will this child be son of God’, but not ‘how will I conceive a child because I’m a virgin’.

A woman who’s about to be married KNOWS she’s not going to stay a virgin for long in the normal course of things, so wouldn’t raise the question - except if she’s planning on STAYING a virgin.

Hope that makes sense to you now.

 

[Priest34]

Again that makes no sense at all. Joseph was bethrothed to Mary, not married. She asked a legitimate question because it was true that she had not known man as of yet. It is not foreign for her to be inquisitive concerning the announcement, as a matter of fact it was very logical and sensible to ask such a question. The magnitude of what was to take place was overwhelming and for Mary to ask what she did was perfectly normal.
I find the angel’s request to Joseph to be interesting also. “Fear not to take unto thee Mary thy wife”. Why such a question, why, “and took unto him his wife”?

 

[LJN21]

Again that makes no sense at all. Joseph was bethrothed to Mary, not married. She asked a legitimate question because it was true that she had not known man as of yet. It is not foreign for her to be inquisitive concerning the announcement, as a matter of fact it was very logical and sensible to ask such a question. The magnitude of what was to take place was overwhelming and for Mary to ask what she did was perfectly normal.
I find the angel’s request to Joseph to be interesting also. “Fear not to take unto thee Mary thy wife”. Why such a question, why, “and took unto him his wife”?

There is no “yet” anywhere in that verse. I agree with the previous comment if she was planning to engage in the Marital act why would she have asked this question? Kids are a normal part of marriage, maybe she would have asked if they should move up the date

The reason the angel come to Joseph was he was going to “put her away quietly” because it appeared that she had done something unthinkable. (“No I swear Joseph it was the Holy Spirit!”) Either she was a really bad lier or a really holy woman either way its a pretty scary thing.

Now why did the angel came and she was obviously with child (hence Joseph wanting to put her away) before there wedding? Now someone correct me if I’m incorrect here but I believe Jew tradition was that once they were betrothed, the bride “belongs” to the groom (that’s why he would have to divorce her even tho they weren’t living together yet) so pregnancy was not uncommon. Taking her as his wife simply means the arrangement was finalized and they moved in together, nothing to do with sexual relations.

 

[Priest34]

You will have to forgive me again but you spelling leaves much to be desired. As a result of it I could not make sense out of that which provided little sense.
Joseph was betrothed to Mary which in the hebrew means they were engaged. Joseph being the just man that he was, was more than willing to be a blessing to Mary by putting her away privily or privately(whichever you choose). The reason for such a desire is because he thought his engagement to Mary had been violated until he was informed by the angel of the truth.
You see the will of God was and still is to be fruitful and multiply. Why in the world would Joseph enter into an engagement with a woman that wanted to be celibate. Again your view makes no sense at all

 

[Pixie_Dust]

You will have to forgive me again but you spelling leaves much to be desired. As a result of it I could not make sense out of that which provided little sense.

Well, forgive me, but your grammar isn’t much better. This is not English class, this is a forum.

There is plenty of information about Mary and Joseph to be found at the Catholic Answers home page if you are still confused. You can also visit:

Scripture Catholic
The Catholic Bridge
and
The Bible Christian Society (free MP3s or CDs)

for more answers to your questions. God Bless you as you learn more about the Church which Jesus founded on the apostles.

 

[Randy_Carson]

You will have to forgive me again but you spelling leaves much to be desired. As a result of it I could not make sense out of that which provided little sense.
Joseph was betrothed to Mary which in the hebrew means they were engaged. Joseph being the just man that he was, was more than willing to be a blessing to Mary by putting her away privily or privately(whichever you choose). The reason for such a desire is because he thought his engagement to Mary had been violated until he was informed by the angel of the truth.
You see the will of God was and still is to be fruitful and multiply. Why in the world would Joseph enter into an engagement with a woman that wanted to be celibate. Again your view makes no sense at all

When the angel Gabriel appeared to Mary and told her that she would conceive a son, she asked, “How can this be since I have no relations with a man?” (Luke 1:34). From the Church’s earliest days, as the Fathers interpreted this Bible passage, Mary’s question was taken to mean that she had made a vow of lifelong virginity, even in marriage. (This was not common, but neither was it unheard of.) If she had not taken such a vow, the question would make no sense.

Mary knew how babies are made (otherwise she wouldn’t have asked the question she did). If she had anticipated having children in the normal way and did not intend to maintain a vow of virginity, she would hardly have to ask “how” she was to have a child, since conceiving a child in the “normal” way would be expected by a newlywed wife. Her question makes sense only if there was an apparent (but not a real) conflict between keeping a vow of virginity and acceding to the angel’s request. A careful look at the New Testament shows that Mary kept her vow of virginity and never had any children other than Jesus.

from catholic.com/library/Brethren_of_the_Lord.asp

It is thought that Joseph was an older man; he may have even been married previously. He was chosen to marry Mary not because he was some young buck hot to trot with a pretty young bride but PRECISELY because he would honor her vow of consecration to God and take her into his home as a PROTECTION against any young bucks would might have defiled her in a dishonorable way if she had remained a virgin without a man to protect her.

You catch my drift?

God knew Mary’s heart - that’s why He chose her to bear His son.

God also knew Joseph’s heart - which is why God chose Joseph to help Mary raise Jesus.

Hope this helps. :tiphat:

 

[Priest34]

Well, forgive me, but your grammar isn’t much better. This is not English class, this is a forum.

There is plenty of information about Mary and Joseph to be found at the Catholic Answers home page if you are still confused. You can also visit:

Scripture Catholic
The Catholic Bridge
and
The Bible Christian Society (free MP3s or CDs)

for more answers to your questions. God Bless you as you learn more about the Church which Jesus founded on the apostles.

My grammar is ledgable and your first or second response was filled with spelling errors, which made it very difficult to comprehend your point.
But thank you for your time

 

[jmcrae]

Again that makes no sense at all. Joseph was bethrothed to Mary, not married.

All that remained was for her to move in with Joseph, which she could do at any time. It wasn’t like a modern engagement of months or even years - once betrothed, the ceremonial aspect was finished, and there was only the practical aspect of moving her belongings over to her husband’s house. The wedding had already taken place. (And yet, they had not consummated the marriage on the wedding night. She was still a virgin, even though she could start having sex any time she wanted to.)

She asked a legitimate question because it was true that she had not known man as of yet. It is not foreign for her to be inquisitive concerning the announcement, as a matter of fact it was very logical and sensible to ask such a question.

Sorry, I have never heard of a new bride wondering how she will get pregnant. If this were a normal marriage, she would have assumed that her husband would impregnate her.

I find the angel’s request to Joseph to be interesting also. “Fear not to take unto thee Mary thy wife”.

Because of the fact that he knew he wasn’t the one who got her pregnant.

His natural assumption would be that another man has claimed her for his wife. This other man would be prepared to kill Joseph to get Mary, if Joseph chooses to stand in his way. That’s why he would have reason to fear taking Mary into his home - because taking her into his home would be a signal to his rival that he wants to have a physical contest for her favour.

Why such a question, why, “and took unto him his wife”?

This means that he went ahead and moved her belongings into his house.

 

[LilyM]

Sorry, I have never heard of a new bride wondering how she will get pregnant. If this were a normal marriage, she would have assumed that her husband would impregnate her.

PRECISELY!!! If Mary were thinking of having sex with Joseph she wouldn’t say that she ‘knew not a man’ - she DID know, or would very soon know (if it were a sexual marriage), a man - her husband!

You see she didn’t know that it would be a virgin birth - she thought a man would be the father, which is why she asked! And yet she had her betrothed already there - surely Joseph would be the man, IF she was planning on sexual relations with him! So why ask the question even?

 

[Jaypeeto4]

**My grammar is ledgable **

Uh, the word is LEGIBLE, not ledgable, which is a gross mis-spelling.

Also, grammar must be understandable, not legible.

It is HANDWRITING that must be LEGIBLE.

Since we’re making fun of Catholics who misspell.

Jaypeeto4
+JMJ+

 

[Pixie_Dust]

My grammar is ledgable and your first or second response was filled with spelling errors, which made it very difficult to comprehend your point.
But thank you for your time

You mean “legible” right? Ledgable is not even a word, according to dictionary.com. I highly doubt any of my posts have any spelling errors. I am very meticulous (OK… anal retentive) about correcting any typos before I click submit. Not only am I a teacher, but spelling is one area in which I always made straight A’s when I was a student. You must mean someone else’s posts.

 

[LJN21]

**My grammar is ledgable **

Uh, the word is LEGIBLE, not ledgable, which is a gross mis-spelling.

Also, grammar must be understandable, not legible.

It is HANDWRITING that must be LEGIBLE.

Since we’re making fun of Catholics who misspell.

Jaypeeto4
+JMJ+

Heheh Thanks

I was actually in a hurry when I typed the “illegible” (or would that be illedgable ) post, having little people clamoring for my attention and did not proof read it. I did, however, run spell check on it and every word was technically spelled correctly, it was just a grammatical disaster.

 

[LilyM]

OK OK people, it seems fairly clear that English (or at least American English, which isn’t at all the same thing) isn’t Priest’s first language, so don’t be hard on him.

 

[Priest34]

When the angel Gabriel appeared to Mary and told her that she would conceive a son, she asked, “How can this be since I have no relations with a man?” (Luke 1:34). From the Church’s earliest days, as the Fathers interpreted this Bible passage, Mary’s question was taken to mean that she had made a vow of lifelong virginity, even in marriage. (This was not common, but neither was it unheard of.) If she had not taken such a vow, the question would make no sense.

I am sorry but the above might be a church tradition but it certainly isn’t a biblical testimony. There is nothing at all to suggest that Mary made such a vow and even if she did why would she enter into a realm of marriage?

Mary knew how babies are made (otherwise she wouldn’t have asked the question she did). If she had anticipated having children in the normal way and did not intend to maintain a vow of virginity, she would hardly have to ask “how” she was to have a child, since conceiving a child in the “normal” way would be expected by a newlywed wife. Her question makes sense only if there was an apparent (but not a real) conflict between keeping a vow of virginity and acceding to the angel’s request. A careful look at the New Testament shows that Mary kept her vow of virginity and never had any children other than Jesus.

from catholic.com/library/Brethren_of_the_Lord.asp

It is thought that Joseph was an older man; he may have even been married previously. He was chosen to marry Mary not because he was some young buck hot to trot with a pretty young bride but PRECISELY because he would honor her vow of consecration to God and take her into his home as a PROTECTION against any young bucks would might have defiled her in a dishonorable way if she had remained a virgin without a man to protect her.

You catch my drift?

God knew Mary’s heart - that’s why He chose her to bear His son.

God also knew Joseph’s heart - which is why God chose Joseph to help Mary raise Jesus.

Hope this helps. :tiphat:

 

[Priest34]

**My grammar is ledgable **

Uh, the word is LEGIBLE, not ledgable, which is a gross mis-spelling.

Also, grammar must be understandable, not legible.

It is HANDWRITING that must be LEGIBLE.

Since we’re making fun of Catholics who misspell.

Jaypeeto4
+JMJ+

Thank you for the correction it is received. I don’t see how my mis-spelled(notice the hyphen) is a gross mis-spelling; phonically it makes sense.
But the main issue is about Mary and if you wish to comment, please feel free to do so?

 

[Priest34]

Heheh Thanks

I was actually in a hurry when I typed the “illegible” (or would that be illedgable ) post, having little people clamoring for my attention and did not proof read it. I did, however, run spell check on it and every word was technically spelled correctly, it was just a grammatical disaster.

At least you are humble enough to correctly label it a disaster