Question about Mary's role in the miracle at Cana

[GraceSofia]

What does it mean that Mary seems to override Jesus’ will in this?
He seems to say, “No, it is not time yet.” And then she seems to ignore him
and sort of force his hand by turning to the servers and saying, “Do whatever He tells you.”
And that starts Jesus on the road that leads straight to the Cross.
Did God the Father use Mary here to set things in motion?

This is the exchange between Mary and Jesus (John 2):

When the wine ran short,
the mother of Jesus said to him,
“They have no wine.”
And Jesus said to her,
“Woman, how does your concern affect me?
My hour has not yet come.”
His mother said to the servers,
“Do whatever he tells you.”

 

[thistle]

What does it mean that Mary seems to override Jesus’ will in this?
He seems to say, “No, it is not time yet.” And then she seems to ignore him
and sort of force his hand by turning to the servers and saying, “Do whatever He tells you.”
And that starts Jesus on the road that leads straight to the Cross.
Did God the Father use Mary here to set things in motion?

This is the exchange between Mary and Jesus (John 2):

When the wine ran short,
the mother of Jesus said to him,
“They have no wine.”
And Jesus said to her,
“Woman, how does your concern affect me?
My hour has not yet come.”
His mother said to the servers,
“Do whatever he tells you.”

D-R Bible, Haydock Commentary:

Ver. 4. Some of the Fathers have spoken without sufficient precaution on this action of the blessed Virgin; supposing she was actuated by some inclination to vanity, in begging her Son to perform a miracle on this occasion; that some of the glory of it might accrue to her, and that on this account our Saviour answers her with severity, saying, Woman, (not Mother) what is it to thee or me. Other Fathers, with more reason, attribute the interference of the blessed Virgin to her charity and compassion for the new married couple. Whatever turn be given to our Saviour’s answer, it must be acknowledged it has in it the appearance of something severe. But the Fathers have explained it with mildness, observing that our Saviour only meant to say, Mother, what affair is it of ours if they want wine? Ought we to concern ourselves about that? Others think that he wished, by these words, to let his Mother know that she must not forestall the time appointed by the heavenly Father, as if her demand were unseasonable and out of time. But most of the Fathers and best commentators understand, that he speaks here not as man and Son of Mary, but as God; and in that quality, he observes to his Mother, I have nothing in common with you. It is not for you to prescribe when miracles are to be performed, which are not to be expected in compliance with any human respect. I know when my power is to be manifested for the greater glory of God. (Calmet) —See the like forms of speech, Mark i. 24; Luke iv. 34; &c. — My hour is not yet come. It is not yet time. He waited till the wine was quite done, lest any should believe that he had only increased the quantity, or had only mixed water with the wine. He would have his first miracle to be incontestable, and that all the company should be witnesses of it. (St. Augustine, et alii patres passim. — Christ’s first miracle in the New Testament, was a kind of transubstantiation in changing water into wine; the first miracle Moses performed when sent to the Jews, was transubstantiation. (Exodus iv.) The first Moses and Aaron performed, when sent to the Egyptians, was transubstantiation. (Exodus vii.)

 

[JoeyPio]

I don’t doubt the PURITY and SACTITY of the Holy Mother Mary. Do you think GOD, will allow JESUS to be touched even by a single sin should Mother Mary be bitten with VANITY?
If the Holy Mother Mary is in no way a part of God’s Plan at the miracle at the wedding of Cana. Why should Jesus listened to her.
Thinking less of Holy Mother Mary, is thinking less of Jesus Christ, the Holy Spirit and God the Father.

 

[Fidelis]

The Navarre Bible Commentary on the Gospel of John addresses it this way:

*Jesus’ reply seems to indicate that although in principle it was not part of God’s plan for him to use his power to solve the problem the wedding-feast had run into, our Lady’s request moves him to do precisely that. Also, one could surmise that God’s plan envisaged that Jesus should work the miracle at his Mother’s request. * In any event, God willed that the Revelation of the New Testament should include this important teaching: so influential is our Lady’s intercession that God will listen to all petitions made through her; which is why Christian piety,with theological accuracy, has called our Lady “supplicant omnipotence”…

Like a good mother, the Virgin Mary knows perfectly well what her son’s reply means–though to us it is ambiguous (“What has it to do with you and me?”): she is confident that Jesus will do something to come to the family’s rescue. This is why she tells the servants so specifically to do what Jesus tells them. These words of our Lady can be seen as a permanent invitation to each of us: “in that all Christian holiness consists: for perfect holiness is obeying Christ in all things” (St Thomas Aquinas, “Comm. on St John, in loc.”).

 

[saskatoon]

When OL told Jesus the wine was running short and He said His time had not yet come, He meant that His public life, working miricles was not ready to start. Basically stating that His relationship with Mary would change. Though when she told the waitstaff to do what He told them, she knew Jesus would be obedient to her and do what she had asked of Him. It was not only out of obedince to her but knowing there would be embarassment to the bride and groom for running out of wine, is another reason why Jesus did it. Yes, Jesus is God and could do what He wanted, but Mary was His mother and He was obedient to her. Remember the reading from the Feast of the Holy Family when they found Him in the temple, at the end it says that He left with them and was subject to them. It is an interesting situation with Mary. She was obedient to her Creator, but He was obedient to her.

 

[Solo1959]

What does it mean that Mary seems to override Jesus’ will in this?
He seems to say, “No, it is not time yet.” And then she seems to ignore him
and sort of force his hand by turning to the servers and saying, “Do whatever He tells you.”
And that starts Jesus on the road that leads straight to the Cross.
Did God the Father use Mary here to set things in motion?

This is the exchange between Mary and Jesus (John 2):

When the wine ran short,
the mother of Jesus said to him,
“They have no wine.”
And Jesus said to her,
“Woman, how does your concern affect me?
My hour has not yet come.”
His mother said to the servers,
“Do whatever he tells you.”

My theory: This is history very important as it clearly identifies who both Mary and Jesus are.

Jesus’ hour had not come. THEN, Mary told Jesus about the wine. Just as she bore Him and brought Him into the world, so did she then tell Him when His hour had come. If this came from inside her, or from a prophecy told to her, or just a hunch, still, she at that moment told Him when His hour had come.

He was obedient to her. She told the servers to do whatever He told them.

He took water which was to be used to ceremoniously clean, to figuratively wash away sins, and turned it into wine, perfect wine, which foretold the Eucharist. Water cleans figuratively, but His blood would clean perfectly.

No, Mary did not overide Jesus’ will in this, rather, she opened the door for Him. She told Him to begin. So, yes, God the Father exactly used her and this moment and this history to begin Jesus’ ministry.

 

[MatthewBerkeley]

Here’s an article you might be interested in reading. catholic-pages.com/bvm/hahn.asp It’s a talk Scott Hahn gave on the Scriptural basis for devotion to Mary. It’s quite long but well worth a read.

I really like Scott Hahn’s commentary of the Wedding at Cana:

Of course, we should go to John 2. The first of the seven signs in the Book of Signs, the fourth gospel. The first of Jesus’ miracles is to turn water into wine, just as the first miracle of Moses was to turn water into blood, so Jesus turns it into the blood of the grape as it is called in Genesis 49. Here we have, I believe, something that is fraught with all kinds of rich literary and theological symbolism. In John 1, “Behold the Lamb of God who takes away the sins of the world,” says John the Baptist. In John 2, the Lamb goes up to a wedding feast. Now does that sound familiar? A wedding feast where a lamb attends? That’s how John is going to climax his book of Revelation, by inviting all of us to the wedding supper of the Lamb. And then along with the wedding banquet of the Lamb, we are also going to be introduced to a Virgin Mother Queen’s city, the new Jerusalem, which is both virginally pure but maternally fruitful.

Theologians have suggested that John has deliberately just loaded the first few chapters of his gospel with the symbolism and the keys to interpreting his Apocalypse and the more you soak and meditate and ponder, I think the more you will find. So, she approaches him and says, “They’ve run out of wine. ‘Woman, what is this between you and me?’” It’s a very interesting phrase. I would recommend for your study a book by a top Biblical scholar in America, Manuel Miguens, who wrote a study on what does it mean, the Semitic idiom, what to me and to you, woman?" He actually shows that there is nothing caustic or irritated about Jesus’ reply at all. It’s basically, “You know, there’s nothing between you and me.”

So anyway, “Jesus said to her, 'Woman, what is it between you and me? My hour has not yet come.” Jesus is thinking that the best wine will be given at the hour. What does Mary say? Mary is assuming another posture, now. She is going to have to distance herself from her son as her son. Now he’s addressing her not as Mother, but as Woman. It sure connotes in my mind Genesis 3:15 and other key passages. Now all of a sudden, you are not just my mother anymore, what you are talking about in this miracle would initiate a whole new economy of salvation, woman, because that’s what she is to be, a New Eve, a Mother to all of the renewed and redeemed humanity. “Woman, my hour has not yet come.” What does she say, “Awe, come on, what are you going to do this for your mother, and now we’re friends.” No. She turns to the servants and says to them exactly what she says to us and all those who are truly devoted to our Lady, “Do whatever he tells you.”

We should never allow ourselves to be so exclusively focused upon Mary that we don’t hear her primary utterance. Do whatever he tells us! That’s why Marian devotion does not take us away from Christ. It refocuses our eyes and our ears on whatever he tells us and that’s what she is passionately concerned about now as then. “Do whatever he tells you.” And it goes on and he tells the servants to take these six stone jugs full of water that were used for the Jewish Rite of Purification to wash feet. Can you imagine, if you were one of those servants? Well she said to do whatever he told me and you’re taking these big, I mean, literally hundreds of gallons of dirty water and you take those jugs and you fill the cups with this dirty, smelly water used to wash feet and wash the dirt off these people and you hand— laughter – these guys don’t know what to do with this man. What are they going to do when they taste the foot water?

There’s so much humor in this stuff that we miss, you know. And they’re sitting back there saying, “We’re going to get in trouble. No, no. She said, ‘Do whatever he tells you.’ We’re just doing what the friend of the groom said, you know? We’re just following orders, you know?” And all of a sudden they just kind of sit back there cracking up, waiting for all hell to break loose and all kinds of problems. And then all of a sudden, what does the host say when he tastes the water? The steward of the feast tasted the water now become wine and didn’t know where it came from though the servants who had drawn the water knew. The steward of the feast called the bridegroom and said to him, “Every man serves the good wine first, but when men have drunk freely and have become drunk, then the poor wine. But you have kept the best wine until now. This, the first of his signs Jesus did at Cana in Galilee.”

God bless

 

[JimG]

There were 6 stone jugs each holding about 30 gallons of water. Jesus changed it all to good wine, thus providing an additional 180 gallons or so of wine for the reception–this, after the guests had been drinking wine long enough to run out. One thing we know for sure–it must have been a Catholic wedding reception!

 

[Joe_Kelley]

someplace I freer translation which tied this to the Finding in the Temple.

In the Temple Jesus says, “I am the Messiah and must be about my Father’s business.” Mary says, “No. Today you are still a little Jewish boy and must come home, gather mesome firewood and take care of the garbage. I’ll tell You when it is time to be the Messiah”. At the Wedding Feast Jesus says, “This is not the time.” Mary answers, " I have talked this over with Your Father and He says now is the time. "

 

[MarcoPolo]

Here is the Navarre Bible Commentary on that passage:*Jesus’ reply seems to indicate that although in principle it was not part of God’s plan for him to use his power to solve the problem the wedding feast had run into, our Lady’s request moves him to do precisely that. Also, one could surmise that God’s plan envisaged that Jesus should work the miracle at his Mother’s request. In any event, God willed that the Revelation of the New Testament should include this important teaching: so influential is our Lady’s intercession that God will listen to all petitions made through her…And that’s not some modern interpretation. St. Cyril of Alexandria, writing around 420 A.D. said:[O]ut of respect for his Mother, he decided to work a miracle that he had not wanted to perform. (Commentary on John)*So we can surmise that it was God’s will that Mary initiate Christ’s ministry in this way, intercede for the “wedding guests” (which is a theological analog for the elect), and show Christ has a special ear turned toward His mother.

 

[Viki63]

I am curious as to how Our Lady knew that her son would be able to provide wine for the wedding. Had He been doing little miracles at home for her? Healing relatives of headaches, perhaps? We don’t know, of course. Any thoughts?

 

[JoeyPio]

I am curious as to how Our Lady knew that her son would be able to provide wine for the wedding. Had He been doing little miracles at home for her? Healing relatives of headaches, perhaps? We don’t know, of course. Any thoughts?

HOLY MOTHER MARY IS THE PERFECT EXAMPLE OF PERFECT FAITH. When St. Gabriel told her that she will bear the son of God and accepted it, she knew it all already. Even during the suffering and death of her son Jesus, SHE NEVER GAVE UP BELIEVING.
Thanks to her, we have the christian faith now. We know that God loves us and He’s waiting for us in heaven.

 

[GraceSofia]

I don’t doubt the PURITY and SACTITY of the Holy Mother Mary. Do you think GOD, will allow JESUS to be touched even by a single sin should Mother Mary be bitten with VANITY?
If the Holy Mother Mary is in no way a part of God’s Plan at the miracle at the wedding of Cana. Why should Jesus listened to her.
Thinking less of Holy Mother Mary, is thinking less of Jesus Christ, the Holy Spirit and God the Father.

Joey, don’t worry. Be assured that I am not trying to insinuate anything bad about Our Lady. I am not thinking less of her; I am just trying to understand more about her.

 

[GraceSofia]

It is an interesting situation with Mary. She was obedient to her Creator, but He was obedient to her.

Yes, it is really fascinating to think about.

 

[GraceSofia]

My theory: This is history very important as it clearly identifies who both Mary and Jesus are. . . .
No, Mary did not overide Jesus’ will in this, rather, she opened the door for Him. She told Him to begin. So, yes, God the Father exactly used her and this moment and this history to begin Jesus’ ministry.

She, the Gate of Heaven, opened the door for him. I think this is a good theory.

 

[GraceSofia]

" It sure connotes in my mind Genesis 3:15 and other key passages. Now all of a sudden, you are not just my mother anymore, what you are talking about in this miracle would initiate a whole new economy of salvation, woman, because that’s what she is to be, a New Eve, a Mother to all of the renewed and redeemed humanity."–Scott Hahn

God bless

Yes, there is a LOT in this story. And Jesus calls Mary “Woman” from the Cross when he makes her the Mother of all Christians. (This is in Archbishop Sheen’s book).

For many years, I always focused on, “Do whatever He tells you,” which is important, but there is a lot more going on here.

 

[GraceSofia]

someplace I freer translation which tied this to the Finding in the Temple.

In the Temple Jesus says, “I am the Messiah and must be about my Father’s business.” Mary says, “No. Today you are still a little Jewish boy and must come home, gather mesome firewood and take care of the garbage. I’ll tell You when it is time to be the Messiah”. At the Wedding Feast Jesus says, “This is not the time.” Mary answers, " I have talked this over with Your Father and He says now is the time. "

I love it!

 

[GraceSofia]

I better just thank everybody for their insightful responses, otherwise I’ll start repeating myself. The idea of intercession by Mary is what I’m thinking about now.

I think Jesus must have done some miracles privately because she obviously knew he could solve the wine problem right quick.

 

[inkaneer]

Here is the Navarre Bible Commentary on that passage:Jesus’ reply seems to indicate that although in principle it was not part of God’s plan for him to use his power to solve the problem the wedding feast had run into, our Lady’s request moves him to do precisely that. Also, one could surmise that God’s plan envisaged that Jesus should work the miracle at his Mother’s request. In any event, God willed that the Revelation of the New Testament should include this important teaching: so influential is our Lady’s intercession that God will listen to all petitions made through her…And that’s not some modern interpretation. St. Cyril of Alexandria, writing around 420 A.D. said:*[O]ut of respect for his Mother, he decided to work a miracle that he had not wanted to perform. (Commentary on John)*So we can surmise that it was God’s will that Mary initiate Christ’s ministry in this way, intercede for the “wedding guests” (which is a theological analog for the elect), and show Christ has a special ear turned toward His mother.

I have always wondered about this incident in the scriptures. It seems to have been inserted almost out of context with the rest of the Gospel. I do not think it was a later insertion as there is no evidence to that. I think it was included by the gospel writer for a distinct purpose. Most people think this occurred before Jesus’ public ministry began but I don’t think so. The text tells us that there is a wedding at Cana and Mary and Jesus are there along with Jesus disciples. If Jesus had disciples already then His public ministry had already begun. Also there is no mention of Joseph being there nor any mention of Jesus’ alleged brothers and sisters. Odd that if Mary and Jesus were invited that the rest of the family were not also. Joseph could have been dead by now but what about the so called brothers and sisters? Jesus brings His disciples along but not His alleged brothers and sisters??? Very odd to say the least and needs an explanation by those who allege Jesus had sibling relatives.

But on to the crux of the incident. Jesus says to Mary, “Woman, what is that to me and to thee? my hour is not yet come.” [John 2:4] If Jesus already started his public ministry and further reading of John 2 shows that He had, then when He says, “My hour has not yet come.” he cannot be referring to the start of his public ministry as some maintain. The word ‘hour’ here indicates a time and some translations use the word ‘time’ here. His time is Calvary. What Jesus is saying in effect is I have a mission to accomplish and this wedding is not part of that mission. But Jesus does what his mother requests even though it is not part of His mission. This little story in the Gospel tells me that Mary will intercede with Jesus on behalf of others and her intercession will be honored by Jesus.

One more thing. This incident is only found in the gospel of John. John is the more theological of the four gospels and because of that it is quite reasonable to look for a theological meaning to this story. I don’t think any of the other opinions I have heard on this incident reach the theological level.

 

[MarcoPolo]

Most people think this occurred before Jesus’ public ministry began but I don’t think so. The text tells us that there is a wedding at Cana and Mary and Jesus are there along with Jesus disciples. If Jesus had disciples already then His public ministry had already begun.

I understand what you are saying. However, consider verse 11 when it says this was His “first sign” as a result of which those disciples believed. John 1:35ff is when Jesus calls His disciples, but this may not necessarily be considered His “public ministry.” The Catechism says:*CCC#1613 On the threshold of his public life Jesus performs his first sign - at his mother’s request - during a wedding feast. The Church attaches great importance to Jesus’ presence at the wedding at Cana. She sees in it the confirmation of the goodness of marriage and the proclamation that thenceforth marriage will be an efficacious sign of Christ’s presence.*Paragraph 574 also seems to tie in his public ministry with signs to be seen by all. Make no mistake, it depends on how someone uses the term “public ministry.” Because even in John 1, those disciples recognized Him as the “Messiah” and “Lamb of God” prior to Cana. At Jesus’ baptism in the Jordan, He is also particularly revealed when the voice from heaven calls out. But again, was this particularly a “public” event? You see the idiosyncrasy? I think it depends on what should be considered “public.”