Question about Mary's role in the miracle at Cana

[GraceSofia]

“Mary does seems to act as if Jesus answered affirmatively. Jesus own actions indicate his affirmative response.
Perhaps he reconsidered. Perhaps Mary gave him a look only a mother can give.”

The Wedding at Cana by Msgr. Pope

 

[JohnMPhilomena]

To me this teaches us about the influence that Blessed Mother has with God. It is the best example of intercession. He will refuse her nothing.

“We cannot comprehend the power that a pure soul has with God. It is not the soul that does God’s will, but God who does the soul’s will.” – Saint John Vianney.

Also, I just learned yesterday, that these were the last words from Mary in the Bible:

“Do whatever he tells you.”

John Marie Philomena

 

[servantheart]

Hi! I just had a discussion about this during Advent. I see it this way…Mary was lifting the situation up in prayer - to Jesus. In faith, she told the servants to “do whatever He tells you.” She trusted that God would provide. In Mary’s action, we are taught to lift all things, all petitions, all desires, all needs, to God confidently, and believe He will act. On the other hand, recall that Jesus was there with His disciples. Mary was a caring person/neighbor/friend. Could it be she was merely suggesting by her comment that they go to a nearby vineyard and procure more wine for the wedding “the old fashioned way”!!!

 

[peary1]

What does it mean that Mary seems to override Jesus’ will in this?
He seems to say, “No, it is not time yet.” And then she seems to ignore him
and sort of force his hand by turning to the servers and saying, “Do whatever He tells you.”
And that starts Jesus on the road that leads straight to the Cross.
Did God the Father use Mary here to set things in motion?

This is the exchange between Mary and Jesus (John 2):

When the wine ran short,
the mother of Jesus said to him,
“They have no wine.”
And Jesus said to her,
“Woman, how does your concern affect me?
My hour has not yet come.”
His mother said to the servers,
“Do whatever he tells you.”

It is reflective of the relationship between the King of the Davidic Kingdom and his queen mother. Remember, that in the OT Davidic kingdom, the king’s mother was queen, not the wife. John is offering us a reflection going back to 1 Kings 2:13-21. The queen mother was an intercessor for the people to the King. She also served as the king’s counsel. He was free to take action on his mother’s advice or not. Mary did not override the will of Jesus at Cana. She left it up to him. But John is also hinting of the deep bond that existed between the two. Mary probably had that way about her (as so many mothers do) to get her son to perform his first public miracle with just a look of the eye without saying anything specific. She could have whined about it; instead, it seems she used reverse psychology!

 

[IronHammer]

I just love this passage about the Wedding Feast. As Scott Hahn points out it is just brimming with symbology and clues. John is the master of symbology and, in a way, his gospel answers the deepest and most serious questions. Alas, one almost needs to be a biblical scholar to fathom it. I am learning…

Perhaps the most curious thing about this thread is that it is about Mary, posted in the Apologetics section and it was started very early yesterday morning and yet, there are no gallant Protestants to come to ply their wares. Perhaps the Lord has boggled their minds. But, of course, they may question it but ultimately they will dismiss it out of hand since they cannot reconcile it with Sola Scriptura, Sola Fide, et al.

 

[inkaneer]

I understand what you are saying. However, consider verse 11 when it says this was His “first sign” as a result of which those disciples believed. John 1:35ff is when Jesus calls His disciples, but this may not necessarily be considered His “public ministry.” The Catechism says:*CCC#1613 On the threshold of his public life Jesus performs his first sign - at his mother’s request - during a wedding feast. The Church attaches great importance to Jesus’ presence at the wedding at Cana. She sees in it the confirmation of the goodness of marriage and the proclamation that thenceforth marriage will be an efficacious sign of Christ’s presence.*Paragraph 574 also seems to tie in his public ministry with signs to be seen by all. Make no mistake, it depends on how someone uses the term “public ministry.” Because even in John 1, those disciples recognized Him as the “Messiah” and “Lamb of God” prior to Cana. At Jesus’ baptism in the Jordan, He is also particularly revealed when the voice from heaven calls out. But again, was this particularly a “public” event? You see the idiosyncrasy? I think it depends on what should be considered “public.”

I think Jesus “public ministry” begins when he first takes on disciples.

 

[PJM]

[QUOT]E=GraceSofia;6178945]What does it mean that Mary seems to override Jesus’ will in this?
He seems to say, “No, it is not time yet.” And then she seems to ignore him
and sort of force his hand by turning to the servers and saying, “Do whatever He tells you.”
And that starts Jesus on the road that leads straight to the Cross.
Did God the Father use Mary here to set things in motion?

This is the exchange between Mary and Jesus (John 2):

When the wine ran short,
the mother of Jesus said to him,
“They have no wine.”
And Jesus said to her,
“Woman, how does your concern affect me?
My hour has not yet come.”
His mother said to the servers,
“Do whatever he tells you.”

Excellent question:thumbsup: Thanks!

One must first understand that as evidenced by 2 Tim. 3: 16 “All scripture is inspired by God and profitable for teaching, for reproof, for correction, and for training in righteousness,” ], the word “ALL” here is critical to our understanding, as one must dig below the surface of these passages inorder to discover there actual, and PROFOUND meaning.

**Luke 1:31 **“And behold, you will conceive in your womb and bear a son, and you shall call his name Jesus. He will be great, and will be called the Son of the Most High; and the Lord God will give to him the throne of his father David, and of his kingdom there will be no end.” And Mary said to the angel, “How shall this be, since I have no husband?” And the angel said to her, "The Holy Spirit will come upon you,and the power of the Most High will overshadow you; therefore the child to be born will be called holy,the Son of God

One must keep in mind that Mary had been told that her son was “the Son of God,” not a matter one is likely to forget. Further Mary was “perfected” in order to become the Mother of a Perfect God, and never ever said “NO” to the Divine Will; which in this case would include what the Will of Jesus is. [Though not readly evident.]

Time and time again Mary said YES to the Divine Will.

**With this background we now ask what this exchange of words, and apparent ideas actually means?

Mary, was blessed in many ways, including at times being Divenely Inspired [similar to the Biblical authors], and in this instance, was expressing the Divine Will, in her own words.

Now Jesus the “God /man” understood fully what was taking place. Behind these words, this exchange, were the reality of “Being sent to His Cross by His Mothers request.”

Jesus was asking [NOT that He NEEDED TO, but out of LOVE and respect for His Mother] for “permission” [her understanding and willing consent once again to the Divine Will] to began His Public Ministery, which was to “end” on Calvary.
Behind the scenes here, Jesus was asking Mary; "Mother do you understand and desire that I go forth on my Public Ministery? Do you know what it will mean FOR BOTH OF US?

And Mary’s "YES, I do and YES I too accept the sword that ‘will pierce my heart.’ " [Luke 2:35] the holy Priest Simeon, prophesies to Mary at the “Presentation in the Temple”[so again Mary was forwarned, and freely accepted the Divine Will. And it is by Mary’s "YES God’ [COLOR=“Red”]“Do as He tells you” that the suffering for them both, begans.**

So friends that is the meaning of this Profound exchange, of “yes’s and Love.”

Love and prayers,

Pat

 

[Solo1959]

…One must keep in mind that Mary had been told that her son was “the Son of God,” not a matter one is likely to forget…

The annunciation, the angel Gabriel speaking to her, the multitude of the heavenly hosts singing Glory to God in the highest…, the wise men, the gifts of gold frankincense and myrrh… She was well aware she was a virgin mother… She KNEW exactly who her Son was and what He needed to do.

For many years this story was one I glossed over. “Filler” for the gospels, I thought out of either laziness, disinterest, confusion, or I just plain wasn’t ready to know it’s truths. But the more I learned it, the deeper I read into it, the more central this becomes to the entire gospel, the entire Catholic church, the whole story of salvation! It is one of the stories which can enlighten MANY of the other mysteries in our religion.

 

[JohnMPhilomena]

I think Jesus “public ministry” begins when he first takes on disciples.

Then what do you think He meant when He said “It’s not my time yet”?

 

[Erich]

Also, I just learned yesterday, that these were the last words from Mary in the Bible

I was just going to say the same thing, but you beat me to it!

This takes on even more significance for me when considered alongside verses such as Take and eat; this is my body and Take and drink; this is my blood and Unless you eat the flesh of the Son of Man and drink His blood, you have no life in you.

As an aside, I’ve often wondered how anyone can believe drinking is a sin… especially since Jesus’ first public miracle was changing water into wine… and not just a little bit, but 120-180 gallons of the stuff!

 

[PJM]

=Erich;6188404]I was just going to say the same thing, but you beat me to it!

This takes on even more significance for me when considered alongside verses such as Take and eat; this is my body and Take and drink; this is my blood and Unless you eat the flesh of the Son of Man and drink His blood, you have no life in you.

As an aside, I’ve often wondered how anyone can believe drinking is a sin… especially since Jesus’ first public miracle was changing water into wine… and not just a little bit, but 120-180 gallons of the stuff!

Wow, we get it :extrahappy:

Its not dringing; its getting “falldown” drunk that is the issue.

Love and prayes,

 

[GreenWhiteBlue]

A few points to make about the Wedding at Cana:

1. Mary in fact never *asks *anything. She merely points out the facts of the situation to Jesus, and leaves everything to his judgment. What she says to the waiters is “Do whatever he tells you.” This would mean that if Jesus said to do nothing, the waiters should do nothing. If Jesus said “they have had too much to drink already!”, the waiters should confiscate whatever wine was still left. If Jesus says “water is more refreshing, give them that”, then the waiters should give the people water. Mary’s reply is not in any way contrary to the will of Jesus, but is instead in perfect accord with it. What is more, she seeks to have the actions of others conform to his will.
2. *Te emoi kai soi * (“What to me and to you?”) is a literal Greek transcription of a Semitic phrase. It appears several other places in the Bible, and it is used in at least one place to mean “I will do you a favor, but I am doing it freely; I am under no obligation to do what I am about to do.” John’s gospel being written the way it is, however, should lead one to look for specific parallels in the Old Testament. One finds a very striking parallel in 1 Kings 17:18, where as a parallel to *ti emoi kai soi, gunai (what to me and to you, woman?) we find ti emoi kai soi, ho anthropos tou Theou: “what to me and to you, Man of God?” In 1 Kings, we have a widowed mother concerned about losing her son. In John, we have a son speaking to his widowed mother at the start of the period in which she will “lose” him (and note the reference to “my hour”: in every other place in John in which Christ says “my hour has not come”, he means “the hour of my death”.) In 1 Kings, Elijah is addressed as “Man of God”, in John, Mary is addressed as “Woman”. In 1 Kings, the response to the question is “give me your son”, while in John the response is for Mary to give her son to the attendants by saying “do what he tells you.” In 1 Kings, the result of the miracle is that the woman confesses her faith in Elijah (verse 24), while in John the result of the miracle is that the disciples have faith in Jesus. In 1 Kings, the woman says that Elijah’s words are the truth of the Lord, while in John, Jesus is the Truth, and the Word. I think the parallels are much too strong for this to be just a coincidence, and therefore I take the ti emoi kai soi, gunai *to be a direct reference to the earlier passage.

 

[JohnMPhilomena]

Wow, we get it :extrahappy:

Its not dringing; its getting “falldown” drunk that is the issue.

Love and prayes,

Yes - everything in moderation.

My priest says it’s not the drinking, it is the sinning that is more likely to occur when your inhibitions are down.