Question about Mathew 18:19 and the saints

[Chany8920]

I was reading over an argument about the saints on another forum. In order to show why we shouldn’t pray to saints, someone brought up that Jesus specified to only ask others for their prayers on this earth.

Mathew 18:19-

“Again, truly I tell you that if two of you on earth agree about anything they ask for, it will be done for them by my Father in heaven.”

How should I respond? In other words, how is this not a restriction upon asking for prayer and intercession?

 

[adrift]

I am not sure if the two here refers to everyone. If you read the preceding versus, it looks like it is limited to who it is addressed to.

 

[Lamplight]

I was reading over an argument about the saints on another forum. In order to show why we shouldn’t pray to saints, someone brought up that Jesus specified to only ask others for their prayers on this earth.

Mathew 18:19-

“Again, truly I tell you that if two of you on earth agree about anything they ask for, it will be done for them by my Father in heaven.”

How should I respond? In other words, how is this not a restriction upon asking for prayer and intercession?

I am a Protestant, but I must insist that Matthew 18:19 itself is not a restriction upon praying to saints in heaven, because that is not the subject Jesus is talking about here. He was talking about what God will do for those who agree in prayer on earth, not what God won’t do for those who pray but are not on the earth.

In a light hearted but still serious example, when the Apollo mission to the moon got into such trouble (they made a movie out of it) I’m sure that the astronauts prayed, but just because they weren’t on earth doesn’t mean God didn’t grant their request!

 

[ChrisRedfield47]

I was reading over an argument about the saints on another forum. In order to show why we shouldn’t pray to saints, someone brought up that Jesus specified to only ask others for their prayers on this earth.

Mathew 18:19-

“Again, truly I tell you that if two of you on earth agree about anything they ask for, it will be done for them by my Father in heaven.”

How should I respond? In other words, how is this not a restriction upon asking for prayer and intercession?

youtube.com/watch?v=ooTfLbdC7gY

 

[adrift]

I am a Protestant, but I must insist that Matthew 18:19 itself is not a restriction upon praying to saints in heaven, because that is not the subject Jesus is talking about here. He was talking about what God will do for those who agree in prayer on earth, not what God won’t do for those who pray but are not on the earth.

In a light hearted but still serious example, when the Apollo mission to the moon got into such trouble (they made a movie out of it) I’m sure that the astronauts prayed, but just because they weren’t on earth doesn’t mean God didn’t grant their request!

Thank you for the laugh. You are so right.

 

[Sacred_Heart_1]

I was reading over an argument about the saints on another forum. In order to show why we shouldn’t pray to saints, someone brought up that Jesus specified to only ask others for their prayers on this earth.

Mathew 18:19-

“Again, truly I tell you that if two of you on earth agree about anything they ask for, it will be done for them by my Father in heaven.”

How should I respond? In other words, how is this not a restriction upon asking for prayer and intercession?

The Saints work continues in Heaven, after their death. Angels do work on earth, we know this from scripture. Saints are equal to the angels in Heaven, so one would assume that their work continues on earth even though they have passed on.

The Saints were people on earth who worked to build up the Church. Jesus wouldn’t just say to them in Heaven, hey you Saints, stop working to build up my Church.

A Saint has the privelege to continue work on the earth even though they have died. They may not do grand things but I believe them to work small miracles.

 

[promethius]

I am a Protestant, but I must insist that Matthew 18:19 itself is not a restriction upon praying to saints in heaven, because that is not the subject Jesus is talking about here. He was talking about what God will do for those who agree in prayer on earth, not what God won’t do for those who pray but are not on the earth.

In a light hearted but still serious example, when the Apollo mission to the moon got into such trouble (they made a movie out of it) I’m sure that the astronauts prayed, but just because they weren’t on earth doesn’t mean God didn’t grant their request!

ROFL!

That’s exactly what I was going to say… to question about how this applies AT ALL, granted that the language is positive rather than restrictive…

 

[Carolus_Martell]

"Again, truly I tell you that if two of you on earth agree about anything they ask for, it will be done for them by my Father in heaven."

imo at least for me it’s very easy to misinterpret the bible…and that goes double when you’re cherry picking versus.

That’s why I feel fortunate to be Catholic and have the resources of the Magisterium of the church. They and the Pope offer the only correct teaching of sacred scripture.

Now if you say that among non-Catholics you’ll very likely to get a well reasoned and thought out response that will make you sound foolish for relaying on the church after all …“do you have a reading comprehension question” they’ll likely query.

You just want to know the truth as it was intended for you.

 

[mich38638]

youtube.com/watch?v=ooTfLbdC7gY

there is a quote from srom someone saying no one can live countinuesly in sin an keep praying to rosery. I have a couple comments. we are all sinner all of us there is no such thing as a christian who does not sin no matter who you are 1 John 1:8 the second thing is why would you pray to anyone but the Father, Grace come from the Father through Jesus to you, when you pray believe that you have received. Jesus said when you ask in My name not the Saints in My name.

 

[mich38638]

The Saints work continues in Heaven, after their death. Angels do work on earth, we know this from scripture. Saints are equal to the angels in Heaven, so one would assume that their work continues on earth even though they have passed on.

The Saints were people on earth who worked to build up the Church. Jesus wouldn’t just say to them in Heaven, hey you Saints, stop working to build up my Church.

A Saint has the privelege to continue work on the earth even though they have died. They may not do grand things but I believe them to work small miracles.

In other words you believe saint give you the miracles. Have you read in the bible Jesus saying that the words the dead are the one the Father does or give Him tou can find Him saying that in numerous places. read John 14:9

 

[onthisrock]

Amazingly, as a convert, praying to saints just didn’t seem to be necessary or helpful.A staunch anti-Catholic wore an in your face shirt. the gist of it was that those in heaven will have ETERNAL life…well, that changed the switch in me. I thought…I ask this person or that person to pray for me…who even knows if by bedtime they remember to pray for me? The saints on the other hand are DEFINITELY in heaven, most definitely remember from that moment on, and are on God’s “good side” for lack of better words. I thanked her for making me realize how important prayer to the saints can be. DON’T think she ever planned for that one! My husband and I have a devotion to St. Philomena. I couldn’t dream up the recent events that are all so wonderful, there is no coincidence!

 

[charlietags]

I keep reading that people are confusing things. First - we don’t pray to the Saints, we ask for them to intercede on our behalf, since they are favored of God. Same thing - we don’t pray to the Blessed Mother, but ask her to intercede for us with her Son.

 

[fred_conty]

I was reading over an argument about the saints on another forum. In order to show why we shouldn’t pray to saints, someone brought up that Jesus specified to only ask others for their prayers on this earth.

Mathew 18:19-

“Again, truly I tell you that if two of you on earth agree about anything they ask for, it will be done for them by my Father in heaven.”

How should I respond? In other words, how is this not a restriction upon asking for prayer and intercession?

When Jesus said this, he had not yet died and opened heaven to people who would be the saints.
So technically, this would be correct. However people in the Old testiment did exist somewhere
for “he is the Lord of the living and not of the dead”, but they were not yet saints in heaven.

Also, it is questionable just how much of the next world the Jews were familiar with, that is,
just what happens to a person when they die. And in this case, it would be a strange idea
to refer to saints in heaven.

Just a thought.

 

[mich38638]

I keep reading that people are confusing things. First - we don’t pray to the Saints, we ask for them to intercede on our behalf, since they are favored of God. Same thing - we don’t pray to the Blessed Mother, but ask her to intercede for us with her Son.

Do you not believe Jesus when he prayed to the Father saying.I pray for those who will believe in Me through their message, that All of them may be one, just as you are in Me and I in You. May they also be in us so that the world may believe that you have sent Me.``

If you belive that why pray to anyone else for intersession on you behalf. To me it would be a lack of faith in my part to ask anyone else but Him who dwells in me.

 

[onthisrock]

Do you not believe Jesus when he prayed to the Father saying.I pray for those who will believe in Me through their message, that All of them may be one, just as you are in Me and I in You. May they also be in us so that the world may believe that you have sent Me.``

If you belive that why pray to anyone else for intersession on you behalf. To me it would be a lack of faith in my part to ask anyone else but Him who dwells in me.

We DO pray to both saints and Mary for intercession…what we DON’T do is WORSHIIP them putting them ABOVE God

 

[in_servitude]

Do you not believe Jesus when he prayed to the Father saying.I pray for those who will believe in Me through their message, that All of them may be one, just as you are in Me and I in You. May they also be in us so that the world may believe that you have sent Me.``

If you believe that why pray to anyone else for intersession on you behalf. To me it would be a lack of faith in my part to ask anyone else but Him who dwells in me.

People like to say this, but then are very happy to turn around and ask someone they know for prayers. Which way is it?

Revelation mentions the prayers of Saints in Heaven before God. Why would Saints pray to God in Heaven?

If you would like me to stop asking for intercessions by those in Heaven, who benefits? I think the evil one would prefer that I stop asking for (and thus benefiting by) the intercessory prayer of the Saints. That would make his job much easier.

 

[pablope]

Do you not believe Jesus when he prayed to the Father saying.I pray for those who will believe in Me through their message, that All of them may be one, just as you are in Me and I in You. May they also be in us so that the world may believe that you have sent Me.``

If you belive that why pray to anyone else for intersession on you behalf. To me it would be a lack of faith in my part to ask anyone else but Him who dwells in me.

Yeah…but where does it say we cannot ask anybody to intercede and pray with us?

Is it prohibited?

Here in Job 42…7 After the LORD had said these things to Job, he said to Eliphaz the Temanite, “I am angry with you and your two friends, because you have not spoken the truth about me, as my servant Job has. 8 So now take seven bulls and seven rams and go to my servant Job and sacrifice a burnt offering for yourselves. My servant Job will pray for you, and I will accept his prayer and not deal with you according to your folly. You have not spoken the truth about me, as my servant Job has.” 9 So Eliphaz the Temanite, Bildad the Shuhite and Zophar the Naamathite did what the LORD told them; and the LORD accepted Job’s prayer.

10 After Job had prayed for his friends, the LORD restored his fortunes and gave him twice as much as he had before.

So my question to you…why does God tell Eliphaz to go through Job? Why not just grant it directly?

And look at v10, when Job did as did pray for his friends…he was rewarded twice.

Please reflect on it…and think deeply…there is a reason for this…and I hope you can discern and understand it.

 

[PJM]

I was reading over an argument about the saints on another forum. In order to show why we shouldn’t pray to saints, someone brought up that Jesus specified to only ask others for their prayers on this earth.

Mathew 18:19-

“Again, truly I tell you that if two of you on earth agree about anything they ask for, it will be done for them by my Father in heaven.”

How should I respond? In other words, how is this not a restriction upon asking for prayer and intercession?

**Heb. 13: 7 **“Remember your leaders, those who spoke to you the word of God; consider the outcome of their life, and imitate their faith”

**Rev.5: 8 **“And when he had taken the scroll, the four living creatures and the twenty-four elders fell down before the Lamb, each holding a harp, and with golden bowls full of incense, which are the prayers of the saints; “

**Tob.12: 15 **“I am Raphael, one of the seven holy angels who present the prayers of the saints and enter into the presence of the glory of the Holy One."

** 2 Tim. 1: 16-18** Paul Prays for the dead: 16 May the Lord grant mercy to the household of Onesiphorus, for he often refreshed me; he was not ashamed of my chains, but when he arrived in Rome he searched for me eagerly and found me-- 18 may the Lord grant him to find mercy from the Lord on that Day–and you well know all the service he rendered at Ephesus.”

**Passage Ephesians 6 :18 **“The prayer of a righteous man has great power as long as you persevere.” …. There is a misunderstanding between protestants and Catholics on the phrase "pray to Mary or pray to St Thomas etc. Protestants take those phrases literally as if we Catholics pray to Mary or the Saints directly and waiting for them to answer our pleas directly …

God Bless,
Pat

 

[mich38638]

People like to say this, but then are very happy to turn around and ask someone they know for prayers. Which way is it?

Revelation mentions the prayers of Saints in Heaven before God. Why would Saints pray to God in Heaven?

If you would like me to stop asking for intercessions by those in Heaven, who benefits? I think the evil one would prefer that I stop asking for (and thus benefiting by) the intercessory prayer of the Saints. That would make his job much easier.

What make it easy for the evil one as you like to call him is people not understanding the authority given to them by God. I was not saying that you should not ask christian to pray with you or to agree with you in your prayer needs that is too different matter. If you need prayer and you ask your friend to pray with you to any Saint so that this saint may interceed for you that is not necessary give your prayer directly to God just as Jesus told you to do. Believe in His words

 

[mich38638]

**Heb. 13: 7 **“Remember your leaders, those who spoke to you the word of God; consider the outcome of their life, and imitate their faith”

**Rev.5: 8 **“And when he had taken the scroll, the four living creatures and the twenty-four elders fell down before the Lamb, each holding a harp, and with golden bowls full of incense, which are the prayers of the saints; “

**Tob.12: 15 **“I am Raphael, one of the seven holy angels who present the prayers of the saints and enter into the presence of the glory of the Holy One."

** 2 Tim. 1: 16-18** Paul Prays for the dead: 16 May the Lord grant mercy to the household of Onesiphorus, for he often refreshed me; he was not ashamed of my chains, but when he arrived in Rome he searched for me eagerly and found me-- 18 may the Lord grant him to find mercy from the Lord on that Day–and you well know all the service he rendered at Ephesus.”

**Passage Ephesians 6 :18 **“The prayer of a righteous man has great power as long as you persevere.” …. There is a misunderstanding between protestants and Catholics on the phrase "pray to Mary or pray to St Thomas etc. Protestants take those phrases literally as if we Catholics pray to Mary or the Saints directly and waiting for them to answer our pleas directly …

God Bless,
Pat

Thank you Pat for your insites

Yes Saint do pray as they always did and I guess what I was trying to say is this, they pray for us not because we requested intercession from them for what ever you requested but because they know what believer have to face every day it no different then when you will pray for a friend whose going to a rought time they dont have to sak you to pray for them you just do because of the love that is in you. When Payul prayed he pray directly to the Father.