Question about Matthew 12:40

[Psalms62]

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Mentioned in the last post: Jesus prayed for the apostles so they would not scatter or that the that “Hour” would not take hold of the Apostles – Jesus, I believe knew how intense it would be for his apostles and followers. The Lord kept saying “Stay awake* and pray that you won’t be tested.!” -and he was still saying this same thought for the 2nd coming - “Be watchful and continue to Pray!”.

Simon, Simon,” Jesus says, “behold, Satan has desired to have you that he may sift you as wheat. But I have prayed for thee that thy faith may not fail” (Luke 22:31–32).

" The glance of Jesus was full of the tenderest pity; it was not angry, only sorrowful; but it recalled Peter to his better, nobler self. SS. Matthew and Mark (Peter’s own Gospel) record how, when he heard the cock crow, which St. Luke tells us happened as our Lord turned to look on the recreant disciple, he remembered all, and burst into bitter weeping. We meet him again on the Resurrection morning in company with St. John (John 20:3), whence, it would seem, that in his bitter sorrow he had turned to his old friend, who had probably heard his denial. St. John, who briefly in his narrative touches upon the “denial,” omits to mention the repentance, but, according to his custom, specially illustrates it in the scene by the lake (John 21:15, and following verses)." When St. Peter Denied Christ Fr. Ralph Gorman

>> Reflecting on the contents of John 17, Priestly Prayer - was the unity of the apostle during and after the crucifixion but also,reflecting on the book of Acts, if this “new way” was from God or from human origins (again, the intensity of Jesus’s prayer to the Father for those to remain in God’s name). Acts 5:39.

1. The prayer begins with Jesus’ petition for his glorification through the Father on completion of his work and then continues with an intercession for the success of the works of his disciples and the community of followers. This prayer takes place prior to midnight and I believe that this was the beginning process of the redemption but also, the son had asked the Father for unity among the apostles and the community of followers. “to the image of His Son” (Romans 8:29; see also Galatians 2:20)) - Also, that continuation of the prayer made it way even on the Cross - (Matthew 27:46 and Luke 23:34,46)

*So all of these events prior to the arrest must have been in the evening The betrayal - still before the hour of midnight but the beginning of the trail or hearing before the Sanhedrin:

 

[Psalms62]

A NOTE ON COCKCROW:

The late Israel Abrahams, at the end of his article “Time” in
Hastings’s Dictionary of the Bible, remarks that although the Jewish
division of the night into three watches continued into post-Romari
times the Roman division into four watches was also known, and he
cites Mk. XIII.35 (evening, midnight, cockcrow, morning). One gets
the impression from the names that the real midnight fell inside the
midnight watch and not at its end, and similarily that cockcrow fell
inside the cockcrow watch; for if this last began at midnight, it
might be too early even for the first cock. What all the evangelists
insist on is that Peter denied our Lord thrice before the cock crow.
Only Mark mentions that the cock crew twice (Mk. XIV.30, 72)-one
of those little details which he probably learnt from Peter (if. IlLS

 

[Psalms62]

Sorry for the last comment:

Luke places about an hour’s interval (XXII.59) between the second
and the third denial. This may be due to his reckoning the “hour”
from the one particular incident which he has mentioned as the second
denial. But in general we must remember that the reckoning of time
in the New Testament period was far vaguer than in our own. Nowadays
we may fmd somebody concerned because his watch is just a few
minutes out; one is tempted to say that in New Testament times it
was the hour rather than the minute that mattered. St Paul writes
in Gal. 2 n.5,

5 We did not give in to them for a moment, so that the truth of the gospel might be preserved for you.

 

[jcrichton]

I know it seems that way, but that would only be so if we count midnight Sunday to midnight Monday.

Since Jesus Rose on the 1st day of the week (Sunday), Monday cannot be counted since Jesus was no longer dead.

So here’s how it goes (as far as I can understand from the usage):
all or part of midnight Thursday to midnight Friday (1); all or part of midnight Friday to midnight Saturday (2); all or part of midnight Saturday to midnight Sunday (3)–midnight Sunday to midnight Monday (4); since Jesus is Resurrected on Sunday that last period (day 4) does not qualify.

Maran atha!

Angel

 

[jcrichton]

I think that what has to be established is what was understood for a “day” period; since I’m not familiar with this I am simply running with the information provided (midnight to midnight); yet, if this is not the Jewish custom of the times (Jesus’ contemporaries) then the argument is mute.

I’ve only tried to explain how it would apply, not that that’s the actual application.

Is there a source that supports or contradicts the midnight to midnight argument?

Maran atha!

Angel

 

[jcrichton]

What you have written is quite interesting; it is reminiscent of the Nona (the Ninth Hour or the Divine Office); we can easily see how the Jewish custom that was borrowed by the Church can define significance into the Divine Office when seen through that significant Day in Jesus’ Ministry.

You have incorporated St. John’s 17 in a fantastic (as exceptional) way; the Call to Alert/Watch and Jesus’ Prayer constantly brings us to the most important structure in the Body: Constancy of Love in Prayer and Unity: Jesus Prays particularly for Peter so that he may gather His Disciples once he Returns to Jesus–through His Disciples Jesus Gives Hope to the world as He Prays for them, not to be removed from the world, but Protected and Assisted so that all may come to Believe.

Maran atha!

Angel

 

[Psalms62]

When I read John 17, it was a renewal of faith for me. The words started to become alive.

The book experiencing prayer with Jesus by Henry and Norman Blackaby was a tremendous book to read . As I started to read more than the first chapter, I found some great sources. In the book of Luke’s gospel, we find that on the night before he selected these 12 as Apostles Jesus spent all night in prayer to God, Luke 6:12. That’s how important this decision was to him and during this night of prayer, the father showed his son exactly which 12 men to select. We find this throughout in the old Testament.

John 17, I revealed your name to those whom you gave me out of the world. They belong to you, and you gave them to me, and they have kept your word. Jesus, acknowledges that these disciples were chosen by God and that they will continue the work that Jesus started. Just the fact that the disciples were selected. Like Mary and the words she expressed back to the Angel Gabriel …“God’s will be done!” And those words are resonded throughout the the new Testament.

Then turn to book of Samuel, chapter 16, as God told Samuel who to choose among Jesse’s Sons. Chapter 16 verse 7, but the Lord said to Samuel do not judge from his appearance or from his lofty stature, because I have rejected him. God does not see as a mortal, who sees the appearance the Lord looks Into the Heart…( 1st Corinthians chapter 2:10)

 

[Psalms62]

# The Day Begins with Night

 

[jcrichton]

God does not see as a mortal, who sees the appearance the Lord looks Into the Heart…( 1st Corinthians chapter 2:10)

I love Scriptures; I never separate the Old Covenant’s Writings from the New Covenant’s Writings as they are God’s Revelation that Unfold, as the Holy Spirit Wills, to Bring man the Message/Word of God.

The most important Revelation, in my estimation, that we have is this:

11 So shall my word be, which shall go forth from my mouth: it shall not return to me void, but it shall do whatsoever I please, and shall prosper in the things for which I sent it. (Isaiah 55)

When we look at the Old and New Covenants’ Writings we find that it is exact:

3…who hath blessed us with spiritual blessings in heavenly places, in Christ: 4 As he chose us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and unspotted in his sight in charity. 5 Who hath predestinated us unto the adoption of children through Jesus Christ unto himself: according to the purpose of his will: 6 Unto the praise of the glory of his grace, in which he hath graced us in his beloved son. 7 In whom we have redemption through his blood, the remission of sins, according to the riches of his grace… 10 In the dispensation of the fulness of times, to re-establish all things in Christ, that are in heaven and on earth, in him… 13 In whom you also, after you had heard the word of truth, (the gospel of your salvation in whom also believing, you were signed with the holy Spirit of promise, 14 Who is the pledge of our inheritance, unto the redemption of acquisition, unto the praise of his glory. (Ephesians 1)
9 Who hath delivered us and called us by his holy calling, not according to our works, but according to his own purpose and grace, which was given us in Christ Jesus before the times of the world. 10 But is now made manifest by the illumination of our Saviour Jesus Christ, who hath destroyed death, and hath brought to light life and incorruption by the gospel: (2 Timothy 1)

St. John tells us that in the Beginning Was the Word!

Maran atha!

Angel

 

[Psalms62]

In that part of scripture Samuel is being told by God as in Corinthians that we have a tendency to look at things by appearance but God sees us differently.

It’s amazing when he chose the apostles. The apostles were not well educated and obviously they were not Jewish scholars. Neither was Moses. When we look at both the Old and the new Testament God’s words become alive.

Revered in David’s words, " who am I, Lord God, and what is my house, that you should have brought me so far? Yet even this too little in your sight Lord God for you had made promise regarding your Servants house reaching into the future and giving guidance to the people, Lord God!"

In Exodus, when God chose Moses, first words that came out of his mouth came like David’s," “who am I” that I should go to pharaoh and bring the Israelites out of Egypt?" When I read Exodus which is my favorite along with many other stories but this chapter being my favorite. The reason being is that Moses was so scared to stand up to pharaoh. So Moses in some way makes up all these excuses why he shouldn’t be the one chosen to deliver the Israelites out of Egypt

Moses starts out in chapter 4, by saying the “what if’s!”… but objected Moses suppose they do not believe me or listen to me? For they may say, the Lord did not appear to you. The Lord said to him what’s in your hand? A staff, he answered God said: throw it on the ground. So he threw it on the ground and it became a snake and Moses backed away from it then the Lord said to Moses: now stretch out your hand and take hold of its tail.

Next Moses tells the Lord God if you please my Lord I have never been eloquent and neither in the past nor now that you have spoken to your servant but I am slow of speech and tongue. The Lord said to him who gives one person speech? And who another mute or death, seeing or blind? Is it not I, the Lord?

How many times haven’t we said the same thing. Choose somebody else I’m not well educated or I don’t have the ability to do what you want me to do? I’m scared! We can look at Noah in the same way. Noah built an ark and nobody knew the reasons why so they laughed because he was doing what the Lord asked - and then came the flood. Didn’t Jesus say in scripture that in the end days it will be like that of Noah and the flood. And then what about Abraham? The Lord said or considered, this question, " shall I hide from Abraham what I am about to do?" Abraham pointed this question to the Lord far be it from you to do such a thing, to kill the righteous with the wicked, so that the righteous and the wicked are treated alike! Far be it from you should not the judge of all the world do what is just?

 

[Psalms62]

All points of scripture follow in one direction the Redemption . For every matriarch and every patriarch up To Mary said the same thing throughout both Testaments…" May it be done to me according to your word." See Hebrews 11:1,

“Faith is the realization of what is hoped for and evidence of things not seen. Because of it the Ancients were well attested.”

Mary’s faith was comparable to Abraham’s. So the verse by Elizabeth just brought out that part of scripture very beautifully by saying to Mary, " and how does this happen to me, that the mother of my Lord should come to me?"…

continuing within light of Hebrew 11 that statement regarding faith and being accredited like Abraham for his trust in God:

" blessed are you who believed that what was spoken to you by the Lord would be fulfilled." …

Everything points to the Redemption from the minute Adam and Eve sinned. The Redemption was in place. It was best said in Galatians 3 verse 23, by St. Paul - "before Faith came, we were held in custody under the law, confine for the faith that was to be revealed. Consequently, the law was our disciplinarian for Christ, that we might be justified by faith. But now that faith has come, we are no longer under a disciplinarian. 4 through faith you are all children of God in Jesus Christ for all of you who were baptized into Christ have clothed yourself with Christ there is neither Jew nor Greek there is neither slave nor free person there is not male and female for you are all one in Jesus Christ and if you belong to Christ then you are Abraham’s descendants heirs according to the promise
Amen…

 

[Bruce_Killian]

Jesus in the heart of the earth includes time He was imprisoned by Pilate as well as time in the tomb.
The time of the start of the three days and three night starts at 6AM on Thursday when the Sanhedrin convicted Jesus capital crime of blasphemy from that time Jesus was considered dead. This is exactly 3 days and 3 nights in the correct order until the resurrection. As soon as Jesus was convicted, they transferred Him into Pilate’s custody and was imprisoned below ground (so in the heart of the earth) when He died He went into the tomb also below ground. Jonah was in the belly of the great fish, the first part of that time was in the hold of the ship (below sea level but alive) the second part after the fish swallowed him below sea level where he died. This is one of the strong proofs of the last supper being on Tuesday evening. See www.scripturescholar.com/ChronologyJesus.pdf page 62.

 

[rstrats]

Bruce_Killian,
re: “Jesus in the heart of the earth includes time He was imprisoned by Pilate as well as time in the tomb.”

So we now have a fourth possible explanation to add to the previous three.

 

[jcrichton]

How many times haven’t we said the same thing. Choose somebody else I’m not well educated or I don’t have the ability to do what you want me to do?

…or believe that any ability is our own and forget to Credit the Holy Spirit for the Gift–even worse, begin to use whatever Gift for our own personal gain falling into Jesus’ pronouncement in St. Matthew 7:21-23)?

Maran atha!

Angel

 

[jcrichton]

Mary’s faith was comparable to Abraham’s. So the verse by Elizabeth just brought out that part of scripture very beautifully by saying to Mary, " and how does this happen to me, that the mother of my Lord should come to me?"…

…not only that but the Unfolding of the Salvific Plan: ‘the mother of my Lord.’ The Immanuel (the God-with-us) has Come! God’s Promise is Revealed to Israel as He in Whom the Gentiles would place their Hope has Come to Israel and the world at large!

Maran atha!

Angel

 

[Psalms62]

… you could say that the Israelites were in the belly of the whale as well… Egypt. In a sense the Israelites were swallowed up by the Egyptians or being in captivity. Definition for captivity is the condition or time of being captive imprisonment or bondage. Same as Jonah being in the whale? Or you can say captive which is a person caught and held prisoner or taken and held prisoner not able to act independently or even… Forced to listen whether wanting to or not.

And since being in the desert for 40 years and wondering, Moses brought out this speech,". When the Egyptian maltreated us, imposing harsh servitude upon us, we cried to the Lord, the God of our ancestors, and the Lord heard our cry and saw our affliction, our toil and our portion. Then the Lord brought us out of Egypt with a strong hand and an outstretched arm with terrifying power, with signs …Similiar to Jonah’s beginning prayer to God.

(Eygpt being in a sense the whale).

In Deuteronomy 29 explains how God wanted to strenghten his relationship with his own people. Like their father Jacob, and being underneath Rachel’s father, Laban, and leaving in the middle of the night with his children- it took strength and perseverance. What came out of all of that when he left, his name changed to Israel (a transformation). God called him out - like Abraham, and lead him.

Here’s what Moses said when he summoned all of Israelites and said to them you have seen with your own eyes all that the Lord did in the land of Egypt to pharaoh and all his servants and to all of his land the great testing your own eyes have seen and those great signs and wonders. But the Lord has not given you a heart to understand or eyes to see or ears to hear until this day. It was so that you might know that I, the Lord, am your God.(Again, a transformation by being called out into the desert to receive the law - Torah both the written & oral, the Law that was given to Moses on Sinai)

So, the story of Jonah is so symbolic and every way like Exodus because of the transformation.

Another tranformation accured - the Redemption - Jesus , the Messiah , and being in the heart of the Earth like Jonah in the belly of the whale for three days and three nights . It shows us God’s mercy and compassion and forgiveness toward the Ninevites.

Regarding symbolism and numbers can get confusing. Three days and three nights in the belly of the whale, some look at the hour, the day , month and the cycle. But the biggest hint is the hour and that is midnight because it is a split in the night

 

[Psalms62]

But the planning stages for the redemption started long ago and with faith and belief in God. This verse just put the divine plan into action!

“Blessed are you **who believed **that what was spoken to you by the Lord would be fulfilled.” …

The verse above sent everything into action -
Belief & faith so it was accredited to Mary. Remember the verse with the Rome soldier:
Just give the order, and my servant will get well. 8 I, too, am a man placed under the authority of superior officers, and I have soldiers under me. I order this one, ‘Go!’ and he goes; I order that one, ‘Come!’ and he comes; and I order my slave, ‘Do this!’ and he does it.”

Mary believed in God’s plan!

 

[rstrats]

Psalms62,

I’m afraid I don’t see what your comments have to do with an explanation for the lack of a 3rd night. I wonder if you might explain why you think that they do?

 

[Psalms62]

Take a look at the comment that was made on Genesis and Jacob leaving Laban with his children in the middle of the night. Compare the story with Exodus. Referring to the hour in both stories…

Jacob’s children leave Egypt in the same capacity . God is calling them out and Moses leading them. There is a transformation during that time with Jacob as there was with the children of Jacob receiving at Sinai the Torah or the law.
I believe, Jesus is referencing Jonah’s Passage as to refer to a transformation that will take place. Just as Jonah was in the belly of the whale three days and three nights, so will the son of man be in the heart of the earth three days and three nights. The passage is giving reference to the resurrection. The comment prior was from the Pharisees and they asked teacher we wish to see a sign from you. And Jesus comment was no sign will be given it except the sign of Jonah the prophet as he references to the three days and nights.

If you’re asking about the hour regarding this passage it all has a lot to do with Jacob and it has a lot to do with the Exodus and the hour was midnight how that fits in I’m not sure

 

[rstrats]

Psalms62,
re: “If you’re asking about the hour regarding this passage…”

I’m not.