Question about "person" and "nature"?

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Wesrock said:
We don’t ourselves subsist as divine persons with two natures as the makeup of our personhood.
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It depends on how you define “we.” We, a group of unrelated individuals, do not, neither together or singly. We, united in Christ, do.
 
Dovekin said:
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Wesrock:
We don’t ourselves subsist as divine persons with two natures as the makeup of our personhood.
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It depends on how you define “we.” We, a group of unrelated individuals, do not, neither together or singly. We, united in Christ, do.
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No, we persons who are not Jesus christ do not. Our union with the Divine Nature is not Christ’s type of union. You are claiming that you as a person are YHWH. That is blasphemy.
 
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Dovekin said:
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Jesus Christ “has truly been made one of us, like us in all things except sin.”

In the hypostatic union there are two natures with two wills in one person. In the human participation in the life of God there is the gift of charity to the person with one human will which can be rejected.

Catechism
1989 The first work of the grace of the Holy Spirit is conversion , effecting justification …

1990 Justification detaches man from sin …

1991 … With justification, faith, hope, and charity are poured into our hearts, and obedience to the divine will is granted us.

1993 Justification establishes cooperation between God’s grace and man’s freedom …

1861 Mortal sin … results in the loss of charity and the privation of sanctifying grace, that is, of the state of grace. …
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You do not believe we are united in Christ, in whom divine and human natures are joined?
 
And if you go to the next section, you find:
1997 Grace is a participation in the life of God.
It introduces us into the intimacy of Trinitarian life:
by Baptism the Christian participates in the grace of Christ, the Head of his Body.
As an “adopted son” he can henceforth call God “Father,” in union with the only Son.
He receives the life of the Spirit who breathes charity into him and who forms the Church.
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1999 The grace of Christ is the gratuitous gift that God makes to us of his own life, infused by the Holy Spirit into our soul to heal it of sin and to sanctify it. It is the sanctifying or deifying grace received in Baptism. It is in us the source of the work of sanctification:

Therefore if any one is in Christ, he is a new creation; the old has passed away, behold, the new has come. All this is from God, who through Christ reconciled us to himself 2 Cor 5:17-18
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2000 Sanctifying grace is an habitual gift, a stable and supernatural disposition that perfects the soul itself to enable it to live with God, to act by his love. Habitual grace, the permanent disposition to live and act in keeping with God’s call, is distinguished from actual graces which refer to God’s interventions, whether at the beginning of conversion or in the course of the work of sanctification.
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Dovekin said:
You do not believe we are united in Christ, in whom divine and human natures are joined?
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I believe that if we are in the state of grace, then we are mystically united with Christ, in whom divine and human natures are hypostatically joined. That is far from saying that our human nature is hypostatically united with Christ’s Divine nature.

I have errands to do so I will be leaving the Forum now. Thanks for a pleasant conversation!
 
Dovekin said:
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Yes, the old has passed away because both original sin has been removed and a state of grace exists and it is a mutable state not permanent as with our Lord. However, those that proceed to the condemnation of hell are not members of the Mystical Body of Christ.
 
Jesus’ Divine Nature… exists for the reason that

A) He existed with GOD the Father - before Creation itself. .

B) When Incarnated Via God’s Holy Spirit - although now possessing a Human Body - He differs because His father was not Human… Plus He possessed a Unique Connection with His Father

That said, and as Us being the potential Actual TEMPLE of God… God indeed can dwell within us…

Additionally - At the Last Supper - Jesus Petitioned the Father that we may become ONE -
just as They are ONE…

That said, Divine has always been Taught as the Attribute of God, His Son and His Spirit - ie. Those Three Persons. period.
 
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STT said:
How do you know this?
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A person is constituted by substance, since as Boethius says, a person is an individual substance of a rational nature. Therefore, if a substance is divine, then the person it constitutes, or in which it subsists, must be divine. But in God nature = substance. Therefore, a divine nature can only subsist in a divine person.
 
So are you saying that we can have a human nature and a divine nature as a “human person” like how Jesus has both when he is a “Divine Person”?
 
rom said:
A person is constituted by substance, since as Boethius says, a person is an individual substance of a rational nature. Therefore, if a substance is divine, then the person it constitutes, or in which it subsists, must be divine. But in God nature = substance. Therefore, a divine nature can only subsist in a divine person.
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How do you fit the human nature of Christ into this logic? I do not disagree, I am just wondering.
 
Thanks, I got another random question. Is “infinity” one of God’s attributes or is it God’s nature?
 
Dovekin said:
How do you fit the human nature of Christ into this logic? I do not disagree, I am just wondering.
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Human nature does not exist in the world apart from a human being. There is no such thing as a human nature existing in itself apart from a human being. Human nature requires subsistence in a person that gives it substantiality as a being in the world. But this person does not have to be a human person. In the case of Christ, the Second Person of the Blessed Trinity is the Person who gives subsistence and substantiality to the human nature so that it exists in the world as the man Christ. Is this possible? Sure. Since He is God, He is able to do what creatures can do. If a human person can give a human nature subsistence, then a Divine Person can also give the human nature of Christ subsistence as a man in the world. When this happens the human nature of Christ becomes united to the same Divine Person in which the Divine Nature exists. This is why Christ is just one Person having two natures. Christ is true God and true man.
 
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