Question about Protestant beliefs

[ChiFaithful]

Do protestants believe that Our Lady of Fatima, Our Lady of Guadalupe, or Our Lady of Lourdes are real? Do they discount them?

On that same note, what do protestants think about the stigmata?

Finally, have any protestants ever had any situations where they saw Mary or received the stigmata?

Sorry to ask multiple questions in one post, but they are all interconnected, so please feel free to answer one or all. Thanks.

 

[BrianH]

The vast vast majority of us would give you puzzled look and say…never heard of that…what is it?
Its not part of our schema…and I have not heard about a Protestant experiencing the things you ask of.
BH

 

[ChiFaithful]

What do you mean “it’s not part of your schema?” Do protestants believe that they happened or do they say that were made up or something else.

Thanks.

 

[RonWI]

Here is the Wisconsin Evangelical Lutheran Synod’s view on it:

wels.net/cgi-bin/site.pl?1518&cuTopic_topicID=19&cuItem_itemID=10362

Lutheran Church - Missouri Synod
lcms.org/ca/www/cyclopedia/02/display.asp?t1=S&word=STIGMATIZATION

Additional reading seems to show scepticism, but no offical doctrine, on the part of these two bodies.

Beyond this, I would agree that most protestants would have no opinions on stigmata becuase they have never heard of it.

With regard to sitings of Mary, while I am not aware of any doctrine which would prohibit the possibility, I also am not aware of any recognition of it by any portestant denomination. While protestants (Lutherans at least) view Mary as a saint to be revered, they do not belive that she actively intervenes on our behalf. Luke 16:31"He said to him, ‘If they do not listen to Moses and the Prophets, they will not be convinced even if someone rises from the dead.’ "

 

[Della]

ChiFaithful:

Do protestants believe that Our Lady of Fatima, Our Lady of Guadalupe, or Our Lady of Lourdes are real? Do they discount them?

A good many have never even heard of these apparitions. I can tell you what my mother, who was Episcopalian at the time said about such apparitions. When I was a girl I saw The Song of Bernadette and asked her about it. She told me she thought that Mary was either an angel who Bernadette believed to be Mary or it was an hallucination of hers. For her, Mary was dead and buried and not able to appear to anyone.

On that same note, what do protestants think about the stigmata?

Finally, have any protestants ever had any situations where they saw Mary or received the stigmata?

Sorry to ask multiple questions in one post, but they are all interconnected, so please feel free to answer one or all. Thanks.

They think pretty much about the stigmata as they do about apparitions–very little. Most simply dismiss such things as oddities of Catholicism and leave it at that.

 

[mercygate]

Some fundamentalists would say the apparitions are demonic.

Most Protestants just don’t have 'em on the radar at all.

Stigmata? Some believe in them (privately); some don’t.

Hank Hannegraaf has stated on the radio that there is no such thing as stigmata and that all the testimony about St. Pio of Pietrelcina is fraudulent.
One thing is for certain: never try to convince a Protestant of anything by citing a Marian apparition in evidence. They’ll think you’re crazy and stupid. Mary isn’t part of their credibility pool. Add to that the fact that even Catholics are not required to believe in the Marian apparitions de fide and your case gets even weaker.

 

[tjmiller]

Has one never heard of a protestant experiencing the things you ask of?

Here I am, now a Catholic.

 

[mercygate]

tjmiller:

Has one never heard of a protestant experiencing the things you ask of?

Here I am, now a Catholic.

I guess, when I was a Protestant, I should have realized I was a goner when I never questioned the authenticity of Padre Pio’s stigmata and even was sympathetic to the apparitions at Lourdes and Fatima.

 

[tjmiller]

Has a protestant ever seen Mary?

Yes.

That is why he is now a Catholic.

 

[Kitty_Chan]

Heard of the ladies of: but thought they were nuns kinda like Teressa.

Stigmata Hollywoods made it creepy, if its about suffering of some sort then no Christ suffered for me, I accept that so I do not need to suffer to prove it back.

Saw Mary? no have not and do not feel I need to. But when we are in Heaven I hope to meet her along with everyone else.

just answers, hope it helps.

 

[ChiFaithful]

Kitty Chan:

Heard of the ladies of: but thought they were nuns kinda like Teressa.

Stigmata Hollywoods made it creepy, if its about suffering of some sort then no Christ suffered for me, I accept that so I do not need to suffer to prove it back.

Saw Mary? no have not and do not feel I need to. But when we are in Heaven I hope to meet her along with everyone else.

just answers, hope it helps.

I sort of understand your answers, but not really, could you help me some more?

When you say “heard of the ladies,” does not mean you believe that in Our Lady of Lourdes, Guadalupe or Fatima are real, or not? I guess what I’m saying is that I’m not asking if you need to see Mary. I’m just wondering if you think that happened or not.

In terms of the stigmata, I’m not so much interested in how “creepy” it sounds or the protestant interpretation of it, because we would probably disagree there. However, I am interested if protestants think that it really has happened.

Thanks. I hope that I’m not being too demanding. I am just interested in learning more about how other people tick so I can better understand.

 

[Le_Cracquere]

Born & raised Protestant and still at least nominally Protestant, I’d say that most non-Catholics take reports of Marian apparitions with a pillar of salt. I don’t recall ever seeing any Protestants foaming at the mouth or even exerting much effort to refute Marian sightings: to someone who lacked a Catholic perspective on Mary, the apparations didn’t seem much different in kind or origin from Elvis sightings. Even if one takes the phaenomena of Lourdes, Guadeloupe, etc. as genuine, my personal experience suggests that they’re more efficacious at confirming and strengthening faith than at instilling it, anecdotal exceptions notwithstanding.

As for stigmata, the Protestants I knew were simply agnostic about it: it had never happened to any reliable (a.k.a. Protestant) sources that they knew of. Of course, there’s a flaw in that logic, but I offer it to say again that such things hold little power to convert the heart unless one’s heart already points that way.

 

[Kitty_Chan]

ChiFaithful I sort of understand your answers, but not really, could you help me some more?

When you say “heard of the ladies,” does not mean you believe that in Our Lady of Lourdes, Guadalupe or Fatima are real, or not? I guess what I’m saying is that I’m not asking if you need to see Mary. I’m just wondering if you think that happened or not.

Well if I go off my first thought I have heard those names said; Our Lady of Guadalupe, Fatima or Lourdes I understand that they are famous nuns that did something significant.

But Im starting to wonder if they are apparations???

In terms of the stigmata, I’m not so much interested in how “creepy” it sounds or the protestant interpretation of it, because we would probably disagree there. However, I am interested if protestants think that it really has happened.

No I meant that against Hollywood I would never take what they said about anything. I was thinking about that movie it gave me bad dreams, shouldnt of watched it.

I understand its some kind of wound like Christs that appears then goes away. I would have to see what happened and if it did happen what came of it, was it beneficial to show people God.

Signs and wonders can be interesting but even the pharohs bunch could do them, so I tend to be a doubting Thomas in these things and look at them individually. Because on the other hand to say outright NO then who am I to tie Gods hands. Maybe explain a bit about it.

Thanks. I hope that I’m not being too demanding. I am just interested in learning more about how other people tick so I can better understand

Thats why I stumbled by myself

 

[The_Iambic_Pen]

When I saw a picture about Fatima in a house in Iraq, I thought it was related to Islam somehow (seeing as how Fatima is a female name in Arabic). I was puzzled, though, as they had Christian images in their home. So, I hadn’t heard much about it before.

 

[Angainor]

ChiFaithful:

Do protestants believe that Our Lady of Fatima, Our Lady of Guadalupe, or Our Lady of Lourdes are real? Do they discount them?

On that same note, what do protestants think about the stigmata?

Finally, have any protestants ever had any situations where they saw Mary or received the stigmata?

Sorry to ask multiple questions in one post, but they are all interconnected, so please feel free to answer one or all. Thanks.

I don’t know anything about those things.

But I’ll tell you what. I think Joan of Arc was a fascinating character. I read a biography on her. I think someone must have been communicating with her. Michael most probably.

 

[flameburns623]

ChiFaithful:

Do protestants believe that Our Lady of Fatima, Our Lady of Guadalupe, or Our Lady of Lourdes are real? Do they discount them?

If you meet Buddha in the road, kill him.:twocents: :tiphat:

 

[Tonks40]

flameburns623:

If you meet Buddha in the road, kill him.:twocents: :tiphat:

That’s not very tolerant, is it?
Kitty Chan:

Well if I go off my first thought I have heard those names said; Our Lady of Guadalupe, Fatima or Lourdes I understand that they are famous nuns that did something significant.

Just a brief little explanation: Our Lady of Guadalupe, Our Lady of Fatima, etc. are names of the apparitions of the Blessed Virgin Mother (aka Mary) at the places they appeared (Guadalupe, Mexico; Fatima, Portugal, etc.).

Continue…

 

[Kitty_Chan]

Tonks40:

names of the apparitions of the Blessed Virgin Mother (aka Mary) at the places they appeared (Guadalupe, Mexico; Fatima, Portugal, etc.).

Ahh thats what i was suspecting from my initial thoughts. So did they appear once or off and on. Thank you. I have only heard and sorta seen 2 things.

Something on Huntley Street a christian talk show about a appearance of Jesus on a wall of a church that sung when the congretation did. The cameras did not pick it up but the people were reacting to something but not all there saw.

The other was a recording of the Holy Ghost at a church in Northern Canada, in the recording that you can hear is a definate wind blowing in the building, but sounds more like a strong (of long duration) gust. Now that perked up the ears.

 

[flameburns623]

Tonks40:

flameburns623:

If you meet Buddha in the road, kill him.:twocents: :tiphat:

That’s not very tolerant, is it?

You seem offended. Terribly sorry. Had you noticed the smilies you might’ve realized that there was an element of humor involved in my comment. That’s a quote from a Zen Buddhist koan and means that one should treat visions, miracles, and special revelations as distractions and obstructions to one’s spiritual path, and not as the goal thereof. Which largely represents the Protestant view of most forms of Christian mysticism, even if individual Protestants are unlikely to have heard of Lourdes, Fatima, or the stigmata. However there IS a pertinent Scripture passage as well:

Matthew 24:23-26:

1. Then if any man shall say unto you, Lo, here is Christ, or there; believe it not. 24. For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect. 25. Behold, I have told you before. 26. *Wherefore if they shall say unto you, Behold, he is in the desert; go not forth: behold, he is in the secret chambers; believe it not. *

This is probably the proof-text most Reformational Protestants would cite against such visions or manifestations. Of course, charismatics and Pentecostals are more likely to credit the possibility of on-going miracles and might be more inclined to suggest that Catholic miracles are examples of demonic forces at work. Or not, depending on how inherently anti-Catholic the individual happens to be. Generally they will be largely ignorant of such matters but disinclined to be really impressed if you happen to choose to enlighten them. Not insulting, just not easily impressed.

By the way: if a Zen Buddhist ever asks you, ‘What is the sound of one hand clapping?’, take out a pair of chopsticks and slap him with them. That’s the answer to THAT particular koan they tell me. Of course–them that know can’t say; them that say, don’t know.

 

[Tonks40]

flameburns623:

You seem offended. Terribly sorry. Had you noticed the smilies you might’ve realized that there was an element of humor involved in my comment. That’s a quote from a Zen Buddhist koan and means that one should treat visions, miracles, and special revelations as distractions and obstructions to one’s spiritual path, and not as the goal thereof. Which largely represents the Protestant view of most forms of Christian mysticism, even if individual Protestants are unlikely to have heard of Lourdes, Fatima, or the stigmata. However there IS a pertinent Scripture passage as well:

Matthew 24:23-26:

1. Then if any man shall say unto you, Lo, here is Christ, or there; believe it not. 24. For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect. 25. Behold, I have told you before. 26. *Wherefore if they shall say unto you, Behold, he is in the desert; go not forth: behold, he is in the secret chambers; believe it not. *

This is probably the proof-text most Reformational Protestants would cite against such visions or manifestations. Of course, charismatics and Pentecostals are more likely to credit the possibility of on-going miracles and might be more inclined to suggest that Catholic miracles are examples of demonic forces at work. Or not, depending on how inherently anti-Catholic the individual happens to be. Generally they will be largely ignorant of such matters but disinclined to be really impressed if you happen to choose to enlighten them. Not insulting, just not easily impressed.

By the way: if a Zen Buddhist ever asks you, ‘What is the sound of one hand clapping?’, take out a pair of chopsticks and slap him with them. That’s the answer to THAT particular koan they tell me. Of course–them that know can’t say; them that say, don’t know.

Sorry…I didn’t catch the smilies…

…must be the sign of the times - kinda sensitive about these things…and also very slo on the uptake…my bad!

Oh, and thanks for enlightening me on the OPOV (other point-of-view)