Good never comes from evil. I would prefer to die knowing I had done no wrong against an innocent woman. What others do is on their conscience, not mine. I would have of course to fight them to my death in even a fruitless attempt to save the woman. Nothing less is called for from a man of courage. Pray that we are never called to find that honour within our souls.
I don’t agree with this. The value of a human life is so high that we have a duty to protect it. If we knew for sure this would save their lives (which we woldn’t and the this whole discussion is pretty far out there) the male in would be relieved of cuplability. If he refused and lives were lost because of his refusal he would have to assume responsibility. In anyway the captor assumes all responsibilty for everything.
That is a key point! Kidnappers are not famous for their trustworthiness. Just because they say they let you go if you rape her, a reasonable person would not put much credence in that promise. It is just as likely that the kidnappers intend to kill both of you regardless of whether you comply. Considering that kidnapping is already a capital offense, they have little to lose and perhaps some security to gain by killing both of you as the only witnesses who can identify the kidnappers. At least by failing to go along with their demand you are remaining free of guilt.
yes, I agree with that. I think the better focus is to look at the lives of these types of saints and focus on them and their choices instead of splitting hairs as in choosing the lesser of two evils. Yes there is no culpability in being a victim nor is anyone less holy if that is something they suffered from. Some of these saints such a St. Charles Lwanga sheltered others from an evil pervert and did what he could even if in the end they all gave up their lives for moral purity and their own integrity. These saints should be our focus not on scenarios that ultimately lead to justification of the lesser of two evils.Those types of choices are not from God and refusing to go along with perversion in the name of “saving” someone’s life is just a sick idea and again a false dichotomy and a waste of time.
yes these types of questions are traps. Jesus didn’t answer them when asked by Pharisee but exposed the trap.
The kidnappers are in complete control of the situation. They are also moral agents of their own, not machines or natural phenomena. The man’s refusal does not kill the woman; the kidnappers choose to do that, and could have chosen otherwise no matter what the man did. Conversely, the man’s compliance does not prevent the kidnappers from killing either victim at whim. Even the chance to save their lives depends entirely on the kidnappers being willing to go through with their strange bargain, and the victims have no influence over that.
The captor assumes responsibility for his or her actions, as does the ones who were captured. Doing evil is still doing evil, no matter what justification we make up for the action. Somehow, I doubt those who have given their physical lives as the result of refusing to deny Christ to save the lives of their family would agree with the idea that if the man rapes her to save her life he is free of guilt for the rape.
But you’re looking at this from a deterministic/consequential sort of way. The people involved are all moral actors with free will, not machines. So whether I choose to rape the woman or not in the hopes of satiating the kidnapper’s need for perversion and let her go has no bearing on the kidnapper’s moral choice. It is independent. Just as my moral choice is independent. And I must not do evil so that good may come.
Exactly!
It’s still useful to discuss them in case one ever encounters a similar situation in real life. Thankfully most of the situations we encounter in real life are much more common and clear. But then, we often have problems with those too.
As a marine, I believe my money would be on you. But courage must mean something to a man. Good man!Being a Marine, I’d be forced to follow through the scenario to it’s natural end. Now the question is; Did I commit a mortal sin by beating our captors to death? or dying trying?
LOL! I’m with you!
Are Jews who did forced labor in concentration camps guilty of supporting Nazi cause? Should they have surrendered their desire to survive?
I am not sure this is an apples to apples comparison. Surrendering a belief is different than participating in an action.
I am not sure how you make the connection between working in a labor camp to raping a woman. Each is responsible for their own actions.
Unless of course that action is surrendering your belief, so no, it is not different. I don’t know about you, but I would never, under any circumstance, sin against God by raping a woman no matter what lies were told to me about someone’s survival. It is turning your back on God and for selfish reasons. If those who died simply because they refused to deny God by word, how could anyone do less and deny God by action? And I am not even touching on surrender by word IS action.
If the male captive here has a sincere belief he will save her life then is the act selfish?
I am not sure how you don’t make the connection.I am not sure how you make the connection between working in a labor camp to raping a woman. Each is responsible for their own actions.
It’s a sinful act he can choose NOT to perform, leaving the blame in the hands of only the abductors who may or may not follow through with their threats. If he chooses to act in a sinful way, he accepts blame for the sin he chooses to engage. If he refuses, as he should and any Christian must, any sin the captors choose to engage is theirs alone.