Question about the Catholic Church during the end times

[mikekle]

**The Church’s ultimate trial

675 Before Christ’s second coming the Church must pass through a final trial that will shake the faith of many believers.574 The persecution that accompanies her pilgrimage on earth575 will unveil the “mystery of iniquity” in the form of a religious deception offering men an apparent solution to their problems at the price of apostasy from the truth. The supreme religious deception is that of the Antichrist, a pseudo-messianism by which man glorifies himself in place of God and of his Messiah come in the flesh.576 **

This is directly from the Catechism, is warning us the CC will go thru some sort of deception in the end times, of course it doesnt tell us what this deception is, or even may be, I think we all have our own theories on that, but that is not what Im asking about.

My dad and I were talking about this earlier, I asked him, " when this deception finally does happen, who will be there to sort of call them out on it"…I mean, when it comes to the CC, from my experience, (and from CAF), people go to great lengths trying to prove the CC is RIGHT, Im worried, when this deception does start happening, will most christians simply be too weak-minded to recognize what it going on?

Obviously (and this is my biggest concern), the CC will NEVER come right out and admit it has been deceived, it will ‘stand up’ for anything and everything it preaches, so this should be no different during the time they are being deceived…right?..I just cant believe it will get to a point when the CC, as a whole is so deceived and does not even recognize what is happening?

Would you all assume its safe to say, during this deception, there WILL be a group of catholics who DO speak up and try to make others recognize whats going on? I think thats what Im most concerned about…if and how the CC will be able to recognize whats going, as its going on.

 

[fhansen]

**The Church’s ultimate trial

675 Before Christ’s second coming the Church must pass through a final trial that will shake the faith of many believers.574 The persecution that accompanies her pilgrimage on earth575 will unveil the “mystery of iniquity” in the form of a religious deception offering men an apparent solution to their problems at the price of apostasy from the truth. The supreme religious deception is that of the Antichrist, a pseudo-messianism by which man glorifies himself in place of God and of his Messiah come in the flesh.576 **

This is directly from the Catechism, is warning us the CC will go thru some sort of deception in the end times, of course it doesnt tell us what this deception is, or even may be, I think we all have our own theories on that, but that is not what Im asking about.

My dad and I were talking about this earlier, I asked him, " when this deception finally does happen, who will be there to sort of call them out on it"…I mean, when it comes to the CC, from my experience, (and from CAF), people go to great lengths trying to prove the CC is RIGHT, Im worried, when this deception does start happening, will most christians simply be too weak-minded to recognize what it going on?

Obviously (and this is my biggest concern), the CC will NEVER come right out and admit it has been deceived, it will ‘stand up’ for anything and everything it preaches, so this should be no different during the time they are being deceived…right?..I just cant believe it will get to a point when the CC, as a whole is so deceived and does not even recognize what is happening?

Would you all assume its safe to say, during this deception, there WILL be a group of catholics who DO speak up and try to make others recognize whats going on? I think thats what Im most concerned about…if and how the CC will be able to recognize whats going, as its going on.

Sounds like you’d just need to stick with the persecuted Church rather than go with some deception that offers self-glorification. I mean, the apostasy might be enticing but anyone who knows the faith will certainly be able to distinguish between the two.

 

[cjforJesus]

**The Church’s ultimate trial

675 Before Christ’s second coming the Church must pass through a final trial that will shake the faith of many believers.574 The persecution that accompanies her pilgrimage on earth575 will unveil the “mystery of iniquity” in the form of a religious deception offering men an apparent solution to their problems at the price of apostasy from the truth. The supreme religious deception is that of the Antichrist, a pseudo-messianism by which man glorifies himself in place of God and of his Messiah come in the flesh.576 **

This is directly from the Catechism, is warning us the CC will go thru some sort of deception in the end times, of course it doesnt tell us what this deception is, or even may be, I think we all have our own theories on that, but that is not what Im asking about.

My dad and I were talking about this earlier, I asked him, " when this deception finally does happen, who will be there to sort of call them out on it"…I mean, when it comes to the CC, from my experience, (and from CAF), people go to great lengths trying to prove the CC is RIGHT, Im worried, when this deception does start happening, will most christians simply be too weak-minded to recognize what it going on?

Obviously (and this is my biggest concern), the CC will NEVER come right out and admit it has been deceived, it will ‘stand up’ for anything and everything it preaches, so this should be no different during the time they are being deceived…right?..I just cant believe it will get to a point when the CC, as a whole is so deceived and does not even recognize what is happening?

Would you all assume its safe to say, during this deception, there WILL be a group of catholics who DO speak up and try to make others recognize whats going on? I think thats what Im most concerned about…if and how the CC will be able to recognize whats going, as its going on.

I have thought about this often especially considering the drastic moral decline in society in general.

Toward the end times it is said that almost the entire world will be following antichrist.Self glorification and body worship are rampant and we are now worshiping the creation instead of the Creator.

Advances in technology,medicine,and the arts,are increasing at a phenomenal rate.This increase of knowledge is said to be one of the signs that His coming is very near.

But first antichrist arrives with all sgns and lying wonders so as to deceive most even the elect if possible. The teaching will be so compelling that without special grace mny will blindly accept this apostasy.

According to the Catechism the Catholic Church will not enjoy a gradual ascendency but will experience a great unleashing of evil which will cause the arrival of Jesus Christ and the saints and angels with Him.

I read somewhere that the new age followers will see antichrist as the world teacher(the christ the buddha the messiah), but that many priests will be able to see through the deception.

here is another quote from the Catechism:

The Church will enter the glory of the kingdom only through this final Passover, when she will follow her Lord in his death and Resurrection. (Rev 19:1-9) The kingdom will be fulfilled, then, not by a historic triumph of the Church through a progressive ascendancy, but only by God’s victory over the final unleashing of evil, which will cause his Bride to come down from heaven. (Rev 13:1ff; Rev 20:7-9; Rev 21:2-4) God’s triumph over the revolt of evil will take the form of the Last Judgment after the final cosmic upheaval of this passing world. (CCC # 677)

 

[cjforJesus]

I found another quote from the Catechism on eschatology.

The Antichrist’s deception already begins to take shape in the world every time the claim is made to realize within history that messianic hope which can only be realized beyond history through the eschatological judgment. The Church has rejected even modified forms of this falsification of the kingdom to come under the name of millenarianism, especially the “intrinsically perverse” political form of a secular messianism. (CCC # 676)

 

[Memaw]

I found another quote from the Catechism on eschatology.

The Antichrist’s deception already begins to take shape in the world every time the claim is made to realize within history that messianic hope which can only be realized beyond history through the eschatological judgment. The Church has rejected even modified forms of this falsification of the kingdom to come under the name of millenarianism, especially the “intrinsically perverse” political form of a secular messianism. (CCC # 676)

All the more reason why we need to get down on our knees and sincerely pray for ourselves and our each other, especially our family members that do not practice their faith. God Bless, Memaw

 

[Kenny_Kamel]

In light of Our Lady of Mount Carmel’s recent feast day I would recommend reading through this article: unveilingtheapocalypse.blogspot.com/2012/08/our-lady-of-mt-carmel-visions-of-fatima.html?m=0

Two things I agree with in the article and comments is that the Church will appear to be in near collapse like in the story of Elijah and the prophets of Baal and that the evil that will consume the hearts of mankind will be focused on self. I liken it to the exact opposite of the Greatest Commandment, instead of loving God above all else (to include family, friends, etc) man loves himself above all else.

Remember the first deception of man by the serpent in the garden, YOU can become gods! And thus the union with God established between God and man was broken. In the 4+ years since I converted into the Catholic faith I have seen this become quite prevalent and unfortunately it seems that the tide may not change any time soon. But that is no reason to abandon our beautiful faith

 

[Christy_Beth]

This is another reason for us to be studying the Bible. If we, together, study the Bible in light of what the Catholic Church teaches, then we won’t be easily deceived. This has been a struggle for me. It’s hard to do this alone. I mean, will I truly get the Catholic meaning of the scripture without someone to teach it to me? And this won’t be just a New Testament deal, but one that includes all of the Bible.

 

[steve_b]

The Church’s ultimate trial

**675 Before Christ’s second coming the Church must pass through a final trial that will shake the faith of many believers.574 The persecution that accompanies her pilgrimage on earth575 will unveil the “mystery of iniquity” in the form of a religious deception offering men an apparent solution to their problems at the price of apostasy from the truth. The supreme religious deception is that of the Antichrist, a pseudo-messianism by which man glorifies himself in place of God and of his Messiah come in the flesh.576 **

This is directly from the Catechism, is warning us the CC will go thru some sort of deception in the end times, of course it doesnt tell us what this deception is, or even may be, I think we all have our own theories on that, but that is not what Im asking about.

My dad and I were talking about this earlier, I asked him, " when this deception finally does happen, who will be there to sort of call them out on it"…I mean, when it comes to the CC, from my experience, (and from CAF), people go to great lengths trying to prove the CC is RIGHT, Im worried, when this deception does start happening, will most christians simply be too weak-minded to recognize what it going on?

Obviously (and this is my biggest concern), the CC will NEVER come right out and admit it has been deceived, it will ‘stand up’ for anything and everything it preaches, so this should be no different during the time they are being deceived…right?..I just cant believe it will get to a point when the CC, as a whole is so deceived and does not even recognize what is happening?

Would you all assume its safe to say, during this deception, there WILL be a group of catholics who DO speak up and try to make others recognize whats going on? I think thats what Im most concerned about…if and how the CC will be able to recognize whats going, as its going on.

The end times are now. People who die everyday on this planet, know that fact intimately.

The one who will judge the living and the dead made this promise about His Church, and I believe Him. “not even the gates of hell will prevail against it”.

There’s only one Church that fits that description. It will go through trials and persecutions but not even hell will prevail against it.

Re: the quote you used from the CCC "The supreme religious deception is that of the Antichrist, a pseudo-messianism by which man glorifies himself in place of God and of his Messiah come in the flesh."

Aren’t we already there now? One could ask when was that ever not the case when humans didn’t glorify themselves in place of God? One only has to look at all the sin and how relativisitic and accepting people are to it in all it’s ugliness.

Mt 7: 13 “Enter by the narrow gate; for the gate is wide and the way is easy,a] that leads to destruction, and those who enter by it are many. 14 For the gate is narrow and the way is hard, that leads to life, and those who find it are few.

 

[mikekle]

The end times are now. People who die everyday on this planet, know that fact intimately.

The one who will judge the living and the dead made this promise about His Church, and I believe Him. “not even the gates of hell will prevail against it”.

There’s only one Church that fits that description. It will go through trials and persecutions but not even hell will prevail against it.

Yes, but if during the end times, the ‘elect’ or CC itself has fallen for this deception,and are actively teaching this deception to the people, wouldnt this indicate hell HAS prevailed against it?

 

[mikekle]

This is another reason for us to be studying the Bible. If we, together, study the Bible in light of what the Catholic Church teaches, then we won’t be easily deceived. This has been a struggle for me. It’s hard to do this alone. I mean, will I truly get the Catholic meaning of the scripture without someone to teach it to me? And this won’t be just a New Testament deal, but one that includes all of the Bible.

Exactly, this is the way I feel…I presume whatever method/ tactic they use to deceive the church, it will probably be something that appears to be a very good thing on the surface, as the antichrist will be extremely intelligent, so I think we can guarantee, this deception wont be something easy to spot.

Im sure there will be those in the CC during these times that TRULY believe in this deception, they will not recognize it for what it is, and will defend the deception wholeheartedly, they will say this is not the deception, they will quote scripture in defense of their stance (just like some do right now). I think the deception is going to be VERY tough to recognize, even for people who have been catholics their entire lives.

Some may not agree, but heres what I think the deception will be like…

I think at some point in the future, there will be an earthquake, or some natural disaster will happen and someone will make a HUGE archaeological type discovery as a result, this discovery will seem to disprove what christans have been taught about our creation, it will be EXTREMELY convincing, there will be huge debates about it, may even go on for years, the world will be split into 2 camps, (Im assuming the skeptics will be the minority). But eventually the majority will triumph, they will accept that the bible was wrong or mis-interpreted, and this new discovery has proven who our creators were, they will later say it is wrong to continue worshiping the God of the bible, it is disrespectful of our ‘real’ creators and laws need to be passed, churches need to be shut down, this will even fool many CC leaders, It will be a HUGE thing when it happens.

 

[steve_b]

Yes, but if during the end times, the ‘elect’ or CC itself has fallen for this deception,and are actively teaching this deception to the people, wouldnt this indicate hell HAS prevailed against it?

I would say, we need to distinguish between the individuals in the Church and the Institution.

For example

• Do individual Catholics get pulled off and leave the Church? Yes
• Do individual Catholics leave the Church to join different **forms of a religious deceptions? **Yes

The CCC also states, [846 (Catechism of the Catholic Church - Paragraph # 846) "Hence they could not be saved who, knowing that the Catholic Church was founded as necessary by God through Christ, would refuse either to enter it or to remain in it.

Therefore, In that example, Hell would have prevailed against THEM who wouldn’t join or return to the Church. The Church always remains, always prevails.

That’s where I would make the distinction.

I’ll just say it, if the Church didn’t prevail, and hell prevailed, we’re all screwed. Because we wouldn’t be able to believe any of the other promises Jesus gave.

And I’ll also say, that won’t happen

 

[Church_Militant]

Yes, but if during the end times, the ‘elect’ or CC itself has fallen for this deception,and are actively teaching this deception to the people, wouldnt this indicate hell HAS prevailed against it?

Exactly, this is the way I feel…I presume whatever method/ tactic they use to deceive the church, it will probably be something that appears to be a very good thing on the surface, as the antichrist will be extremely intelligent, so I think we can guarantee, this deception wont be something easy to spot.

Im sure there will be those in the CC during these times that TRULY believe in this deception, they will not recognize it for what it is, and will defend the deception wholeheartedly, they will say this is not the deception, they will quote scripture in defense of their stance (just like some do right now). I think the deception is going to be VERY tough to recognize, even for people who have been catholics their entire lives.

I disagree. Faithful Catholics will never be deceived. Christ promised the Holy Spirit would guide us into all truth. People who are not faithful will not be willing to hear the Holy Spirit and may be deceived because they will not have the discernment of the Holy Spirit to guide them.

Your whole premise really just sounds like a-C propaganda upon which you have fed your own doubts…

Also I think you’ve misinterpreted this outside of the New Testament.

Our Blessed Lord Jesus Christ specifically tells us
"[21] For then there will be great tribulation, such as has not been from the beginning of the world until now, no, and never will be.
[22] And if those days had not been shortened, no human being would be saved; but for the sake of the elect those days will be shortened.
[23] Then if any one says to you, Lo, here is the Christ!' or There he is!’ do not believe it.
[24] For false Christs and false prophets will arise and show great signs and wonders, so as to lead astray, if possible, even the elect.
[25] Lo, I have told you beforehand."

Are we in for all that Matthew 24 talks about? Certainly. Will the Catholic Church be deceived? Nope, because Matthew recounts the following just a few chapters later.
"[17] And when they saw him they worshiped him; but some doubted.
[18] And Jesus came and said to them, "All authority in heaven and on earth has been given to me.
[19] Go therefore and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit,
[20] teaching them to observe all that I have commanded you; and lo, I am with you always, to the close of the age."

The Church has endured great persecutions and tribulations in its history and yet it remains. Some will remain faithful and some will fall, but we simply need to be found doing what He commanded of us and not be influenced by all those people, especially n-Cs who worry and fret over every jot and tittle of apocalyptic scripture. The failings of individual persons does not indict the faith in the truths of the church.

Let’s be about our Father’s business…

I would say, we need to distinguish between the individuals in the Church and the Institution.

For example

• Do individual Catholics get pulled off and leave the Church? Yes
• Do individual Catholics leave the Church to join different **forms of a religious deceptions? **Yes

The CCC also states, [846 (Catechism of the Catholic Church - Paragraph # 846) "Hence they could not be saved who, knowing that the Catholic Church was founded as necessary by God through Christ, would refuse either to enter it or to remain in it.

Therefore, In that example, Hell would have prevailed against THEM who wouldn’t join or return to the Church. The Church always remains, always prevails.

That’s where I would make the distinction.

I’ll just say it, if the Church didn’t prevail, and hell prevailed, we’re all screwed. Because we wouldn’t be able to believe any of the other promises Jesus gave.

And I’ll also say, that won’t happen

 

[Church_Militant]

Exactly, this is the way I feel…I presume whatever method/ tactic they use to deceive the church, it will probably be something that appears to be a very good thing on the surface, as the antichrist will be extremely intelligent, so I think we can guarantee, this deception wont be something easy to spot.

Im sure there will be those in the CC during these times that TRULY believe in this deception, they will not recognize it for what it is, and will defend the deception wholeheartedly, they will say this is not the deception, they will quote scripture in defense of their stance (just like some do right now). I think the deception is going to be VERY tough to recognize, even for people who have been catholics their entire lives.

Some may not agree, but heres what I think the deception will be like…

I think at some point in the future, there will be an earthquake, or some natural disaster will happen and someone will make a HUGE archaeological type discovery as a result, this discovery will seem to disprove what christans have been taught about our creation, it will be EXTREMELY convincing, there will be huge debates about it, may even go on for years, the world will be split into 2 camps, (Im assuming the skeptics will be the minority). But eventually the majority will triumph, they will accept that the bible was wrong or mis-interpreted, and this new discovery has proven who our creators were, they will later say it is wrong to continue worshiping the God of the bible, it is disrespectful of our ‘real’ creators and laws need to be passed, churches need to be shut down, this will even fool many CC leaders, It will be a HUGE thing when it happens.

Conjecture…ill informed at best…

I suggest that you make the $10.00 investment in
What Jesus Really Said About the End of the World

Here’s an excerpt from my copy…

Falling away

The Church teaches that the final persecution will be a kind of near-death experience for Christ’s mystical body on earth— so intense that many will lose their faith. Apostasy will decimate the ranks of the faithful. “Before Christ’s second coming the Church must pass through a final trial that will shake the faith of many believers.” 299 Today, in a Western world where Christian churches are emptying at an alarming rate, we certainly see evidence of St. Paul’s statement that “in later times some will depart from the faith by giving heed to deceitful spirits and doctrines of demons” (1 Tim. 4: 1)…

We have been promised that false messiahs were not limited to the time surrounding the temple’s destruction but will continue to appear. Their appeal will always be similar: a solution apart from God’s way. They will say, “Follow me, I have the answer to your troubles! You just have to compromise on your faith.” As in the first century, some of the worst false teachers will arise within the Church. If you have been paying attention at all in the first decade of this century, and the last decade of the previous one, you know that apostates have wormed their way into the life of the Church. Pope Benedict XVI himself said, “Today we see in a really terrifying way that the greatest persecution of the Church does not come from the enemies outside, but is born from the sin in the Church.” 302 Of course, the false messiahs get progressively worse as time wears on. This will culminate in the Antichrist: The supreme religious deception is that of the Antichrist, a pseudo-messianism by which man glorifies himself in place of God. . . . The Antichrist’s deception already begins to take shape in the world every time the claim is made to realize within history that messianic hope which can only be realized beyond history through the eschatological judgment. . . . Especially . . . perverse [is the] political form of a secular messianism.

David B. Currie. What Jesus Really Said About the End of the World. Catholic Answers Press.

 

[Jeanne_S]

Yes, but if during the end times, the ‘elect’ or CC itself has fallen for this deception,and are actively teaching this deception to the people, wouldnt this indicate hell HAS prevailed against it?

The Catholic Church has the deposit of faith through the grace and guidance of the Holy Spirit.It will prevail.Re the elect,there will be many who are swayed by deceitCHRIST WARNED THAT WE SHOULD PRAY THAT WE ARE MOT PUT TO THE TEST
Let us all pray fervently that Christ remains in us and we in Him.

 

[Karen107]

**The Church’s ultimate trial

675 Before Christ’s second coming the Church must pass through a final trial that will shake the faith of many believers.574 The persecution that accompanies her pilgrimage on earth575 will unveil the “mystery of iniquity” in the form of a religious deception offering men an apparent solution to their problems at the price of apostasy from the truth. The supreme religious deception is that of the Antichrist, a pseudo-messianism by which man glorifies himself in place of God and of his Messiah come in the flesh.576 **

This is directly from the Catechism, is warning us the CC will go thru some sort of deception in the end times, of course it doesnt tell us what this deception is, or even may be, I think we all have our own theories on that, but that is not what Im asking about.

My dad and I were talking about this earlier, I asked him, " when this deception finally does happen, who will be there to sort of call them out on it"…I mean, when it comes to the CC, from my experience, (and from CAF), people go to great lengths trying to prove the CC is RIGHT, Im worried, when this deception does start happening, will most christians simply be too weak-minded to recognize what it going on?

Obviously (and this is my biggest concern), the CC will NEVER come right out and admit it has been deceived, it will ‘stand up’ for anything and everything it preaches, so this should be no different during the time they are being deceived…right?..I just cant believe it will get to a point when the CC, as a whole is so deceived and does not even recognize what is happening?

Would you all assume its safe to say, during this deception, there WILL be a group of catholics who DO speak up and try to make others recognize whats going on? I think thats what Im most concerned about…if and how the CC will be able to recognize whats going, as its going on.

Whoa… I think you need to stop for a minute, You combined CCC 675 about the end times with CCC 575 which is about Jesus and Isreal. Of course the Church will be under attack by the spirit of the antichrist who lives in the world, that’s nothing new, but that doesn’t say that the Church has been deceived.

The Church does recognize what’s going on in the world. Apostasy is all around as Jesus predicted…Matthew 24: 11 Then many false prophets will rise up and deceive many. And because lawlessness will abound, the love of many will grow cold. 13 But he who endures to the end shall be saved. 14 And this gospel of the kingdom will be preached in all the world as a witness to all the nations, and then the end will come.

But that doesn’t mean we give up, as the scripture above states… He who endures to the end shall be saved… We’re supposed to be persistent and faithful to the end, even when people are against us and stop believing in Jesus, considering themselves as their own ‘gods’ of the world who claim to know the truth or take people away from the truth found in the Catholic Church since it’s beginnings. For example: The truths on the Eucharist, the Priesthood, Marriage, the Sacraments, biblical truths… Catholics will not abandon the taking and eating of the body and blood of Our Lord even in and especially during end times as long as we are physically able to do so… And because we remain steadfast in our beliefs we will be lifted up on the last day… John 6:54

You say the Church has been deceived but we believe that it is the world who has been deceived and this will come to light when all things are revealed in Christ.

Matthew 10:24 “A disciple is not above the teacher, nor a slave above the master; 25 it is enough for the disciple to be like the teacher, and the slave like the master. If they have called the master of the house Beelzebul, how much more will they malign those of his household!

Whom to Fear
26 “So have no fear of them; for nothing is covered up that will not be uncovered, and nothing secret that will not become known.

 

[AnneElizabeth]

**The Church’s ultimate trial

675 Before Christ’s second coming the Church must pass through a final trial that will shake the faith of many believers.574 The persecution that accompanies her pilgrimage on earth575 will unveil the “mystery of iniquity” in the form of a religious deception offering men an apparent solution to their problems at the price of apostasy from the truth. The supreme religious deception is that of the Antichrist, a pseudo-messianism by which man glorifies himself in place of God and of his Messiah come in the flesh.576 **

This is directly from the Catechism, is warning us the CC will go thru some sort of deception in the end times, of course it doesnt tell us what this deception is, or even may be, I think we all have our own theories on that, but that is not what Im asking about.

My dad and I were talking about this earlier, I asked him, " when this deception finally does happen, who will be there to sort of call them out on it"…I mean, when it comes to the CC, from my experience, (and from CAF), people go to great lengths trying to prove the CC is RIGHT, Im worried, when this deception does start happening, will most christians simply be too weak-minded to recognize what it going on?

Obviously (and this is my biggest concern), the CC will NEVER come right out and admit it has been deceived, it will ‘stand up’ for anything and everything it preaches, so this should be no different during the time they are being deceived…right?..I just cant believe it will get to a point when the CC, as a whole is so deceived and does not even recognize what is happening?

Would you all assume its safe to say, during this deception, there WILL be a group of catholics who DO speak up and try to make others recognize whats going on? I think thats what Im most concerned about…if and how the CC will be able to recognize whats going, as its going on.

What is interesting is the very scenario you put out here has been sort of happening throughout the history of Christianity- I mean, with all the break offs and new sects of Christianity being formed- is that not how it all happened? I do surmise these ones who left to form a new sect believed the same scenario you present here and hence, left the church and started new groups when they perceived serious error. So whether or not its going to happen, is happening or has happened… there are scenarios all over history to fit the bill. Maybe one of those that started then is the correct faith instead? (Just proposing that idea, not endorsing it) Just some more food for thought there.

History also shows it not that hard to have whole large groups of people be deceived… I think the whole Nazi history really illustrates that nicely. Its frightening how that can happen, but if you study up on the psychology of it, you can see how. Those people- the early supporters- were really taken in by the propaganda and they had very rosy colored glasses on. I do believe this is why Jesus tells us to “Watch”. I recall words from Scripture also “be vigilant and sober”.

 

[AnneElizabeth]

…if the Church didn’t prevail, and hell prevailed, we’re all screwed. Because we wouldn’t be able to believe any of the other promises Jesus gave…

Well, I think what it means as to the church ‘prevailing’, it means throughout history UNTIL those few last days….

Scripture says God shortened those last days because of the elect, that if He had not they would not be saved. I take that to mean that yes, on a whole,** during those last days, **MOST will be “screwed” as you say- but mostly due to the facts their hearts have grown cold- they were influenced and gave into the wickedness and sin that surrounds them.

What Jesus says about those days is that it would be difficult for people to find Him and that many will say that they are him, but are not. So, I do take it that there will be a time that there will be people who are ‘screwed’, or will feel like they are, but not really too… I can’t remember the Scripture exactly, but I recall something about how God will help those seeking Him. All of God’s Word is true, so everything must be weighed and measured by it as a whole.

If what Jesus said about the end times is not true, (which you seem to present here- not saying you are, but just what it sounds like) then that would make Him a liar and thus make all of Scripture absolutely false and not worthy of anyone’s concern/attention/devotion. If we believe in Jesus, and he spoke of things occurring - they should occur, … if not then he is either a liar or lunatic, not Lord.

Just playing devil’s advocate here- the thing is, if it was/is a lie, its presented in such a way that virtually no one would ever know the truth of that ‘lie’, because all would have died before it could manifest to prove it. !!!

 

[cjforJesus]

Exactly, this is the way I feel…I presume whatever method/ tactic they use to deceive the church, it will probably be something that appears to be a very good thing on the surface, as the antichrist will be extremely intelligent, so I think we can guarantee, this deception wont be something easy to spot.

Im sure there will be those in the CC during these times that TRULY believe in this deception, they will not recognize it for what it is, and will defend the deception wholeheartedly, they will say this is not the deception, they will quote scripture in defense of their stance (just like some do right now). I think the deception is going to be VERY tough to recognize, even for people who have been catholics their entire lives.

Some may not agree, but heres what I think the deception will be like…

I think at some point in the future, there will be an earthquake, or some natural disaster will happen and someone will make a HUGE archaeological type discovery as a result, this discovery will seem to disprove what christans have been taught about our creation, it will be EXTREMELY convincing, there will be huge debates about it, may even go on for years, the world will be split into 2 camps, (Im assuming the skeptics will be the minority). But eventually the majority will triumph, they will accept that the bible was wrong or mis-interpreted, and this new discovery has proven who our creators were, they will later say it is wrong to continue worshiping the God of the bible, it is disrespectful of our ‘real’ creators and laws need to be passed, churches need to be shut down, this will even fool many CC leaders, It will be a HUGE thing when it happens.

That is rather interesting.I think I read that scenario before. It seems sort of an offshoot of the zecharia sitchin alien creator theory.

I wish I could locate which saint said this, but I read sometime ago that toward the end times the Catholic church is going to schism for a final time and 2/3 will follow antichrist while 1/3 will remain true to Jesus. The gates of hell will not prevail but that does sound like a type of apostasy and falling away.
It already seems like the lines are being drawn with quite a few bishops supporting same sex sexually active couples as an alternate lifestyle.

 

[steve_b]

Well, I think what it means as to the church ‘prevailing’, it means throughout history UNTIL those few last days….

Scripture says God shortened those last days because of the elect, that if He had not they would not be saved. I take that to mean that yes, on a whole,** during those last days, **MOST will be “screwed” as you say- but mostly due to the facts their hearts have grown cold- they were influenced and gave into the wickedness and sin that surrounds them.

We could also look at “shortened those last days because of the elect” as the days of the elect were shortened by God, not necessarily the overall days for the world being shortened in general.

Example

The elect have always been with us. We don’t know who they are, and unless God told THEM that they are elect, they don’t know they are elect either. Some of these saints lived a very short life. Others live/ lived longer but still shorter than others who are the antithesis of holiness… agreed?

That dynamic has always been in place. Long or shortness of years isn’t always a predictor of a person’s holiness.
A:

What Jesus says about those days is that it would be difficult for people to find Him and that many will say that they are him, but are not. So, I do take it that there will be a time that there will be people who are ‘screwed’, or will feel like they are, but not really too

I would suggest It’s not a future event, those days are here and have not left us.
A:

… I can’t remember the Scripture exactly, but I recall something about how God will help those seeking Him. All of God’s Word is true, so everything must be weighed and measured by it as a whole.

True.

Just Look at what’s happened just in our time, .

2 examples

1. 
   *]1972 the Supreme Court legalizes abortion
   *]2015 the Supreme Court legalizes same sex marriage
   
   The court is not just giving permission, it’s giving license to do those phenominal evils and that no wrong, and no consequences are to be expected from doing those actions. That’s the message being sent loud and clear by the Supreme Court of the land to the U.S and the world. WHAT arrogance they have.
   
   Those judges who voted to approve those laws are executioners of souls…their own as well as those who took / take them up on such license.
   
   All I can say, They widened the gate and the road that leads to destruction to accomodate all the added traffic they caused by their decision, thereby making it even easier for those on that road.
   
   Mt 7: 13 “Enter by the narrow gate; for the gate is wide and the way is easy,a] that leads to destruction, and those who enter by it are many. 14 For the gate is narrow and the way is hard, that leads to life, and those who find it are few.
   
   We aren’t praying enough, and we aren’t active enough insisting people vote correctly
   A:
   

   If what Jesus said about the end times is not true, (which you seem to present here- not saying you are, but just what it sounds like) then that would make Him a liar and thus make all of Scripture absolutely false and not worthy of anyone’s concern/attention/devotion. If we believe in Jesus, and he spoke of things occurring - they should occur, … if not then he is either a liar or lunatic, not Lord.

   And that’s my point as well.
   A:
   

   Just playing devil’s advocate here- the thing is, if it was/is a lie, its presented in such a way that virtually no one would ever know the truth of that ‘lie’, because all would have died before it could manifest to prove it. !!!

   In Our Lord’s reality, there is no time. There is no yesterday today or tomorrow. No months, years, milleniums…It’s just the eternal now.
   
   IOW, Jesus is already and continually manifesting Himself. We don’t have to wait. Every second of every day 1000’s of people die on the planet. Believe me, the end of the world just happened for THEM. There’s no waiting for the “2nd coming” whenever that occurs. They met Jesus and Jesus judged them. They knew immediately what their eternal trajectory was at that moment… No waiting for some other event in the future.

 

[Memaw]

This is another reason for us to be studying the Bible. If we, together, study the Bible in light of what the Catholic Church teaches, then we won’t be easily deceived. This has been a struggle for me. It’s hard to do this alone. I mean, will I truly get the Catholic meaning of the scripture without someone to teach it to me? And this won’t be just a New Testament deal, but one that includes all of the Bible.

there are some very good books on the Catholic Answers web, "catholic.com. And if you have a Catholic Radio station in your area, Jeff Cavins has a really great Bible program on every week. God Bless, Memaw